Zune DRM stripped

Blaming hackers for M$ ineptitude?

"As a result, end users - most of whom will never come near a Zune - will end up running ever more bloated and, inevitably, buggy software."

So let me get this straight, A hacker cracks something created by M$, so then M$ changes software and because they then make the software worse, that is the hackers fault?

Who has one

Anyone from here ever even touched one? I am an iPod man myself and never really saw the Zune. Just wondering who has bought it (i guess someone must have?)

Grey imports only

Who has one?

Pretty much nobody in the UK, Microsoft thought it was a good idea not to bother launching it in the UK for quite a while, not sure it's even out now? searches reveal it's end of 2007 maybe even 2008 for a EU launch.

Shortcomings

"Expect updates from Microsoft to address the apparent shortcomings of its file protection software, which hackers will continue to attack."

The awesome part is, based on the way DRM works, they'll never be able to fix the shortcomings. They're doomed to create something that'll be broken!

Well, actually...

@ Ron: "They're doomed to create something that'll be broken!" What, again? I cite MS-DOS 4.0, Windows 3.0, Windows ME, Windows NT, Windows 2000, Windows XP, Windows Vista (and a whole lot of other versions of Windows and MS-DOS), MS Office...

@ Giles Jones: "Who has one?" Obsidian, who lives in Colombia, owner of http://www.commissionedcomic.com, has one. He likes it, although he's a Microsoft fanboi, and it caused him to lose about 800 megs or more of MP3s... He's stil la good guy.

DRM has to go

This is just another reason DRM has to go.

It's not worth it, DRM will end up be cracked every time.

Stop restricting legitimate users of their rights once they have bought a tune.

I got one from M$

I went to a M$ .Net meeting and they wanted to pump #s in attendance. I was a winner with a Zune. Somebody else got a XBox 360.

Anyway it's not a bad little player. It does the RADIO, and that was a feature that was missing in the i land of players. Battery life is 4 hours of stored music files and 6+ of radio time.

I only have concerts from bt.etree.org that I rip to MP3. The hacking of purchased crap from M$ isn't part of my zune life.

I've got one!

I must say, it's an absolutely class device for video - Not really into music myself.

Xbox aside, they usually (or their partners usually) make pretty good hardware - I always use an MS mouse.

I know someone who's got one!

My daughter's boyfriend bought her one for last Christmas. She likes it. Its full of her ripped discs plus stuff she bought off iTunes.

DRM? What's that? One of the worst kept open secrets of iTunes is that the first thing you do with any purchase from that store is de-DRM it. So its no surprise that Microsoft's mTunz (or whatever they call their version of iTunes) would get the same treatment. Apple has finally got the message -- consumers just don't want 'extras' with their purchases, especially as those extras are used to make life difficult for them.

Hackers hack for the sake of hacking

This further proves that hackers are not necessary interested ONLY hacking products that owns majority of the market share. Which is the typical argument from Windows OS users when speaking of the lack of significant viruses on the Mac OS platform.

Blaming hackers for M$ ineptitude?

> A hacker cracks something created by M$, so then M$ changes software

> and because they then make the software worse, that is the hackers fault?

I'd say so, yes. Its because of the thieves that that padlock and chain weigh more than the pushbike, not because of the cycle manufacturer.

DRM Broken

@Morely Dotes: I think Ron was saying that DRM was broken, not Microsoft software in general. Which it is. By design, DRM puts the secret key into the hands of the enemy (that's us!) Without tamper-proof hardware, it can be hacked, and who will buy a PC with hardware they don't control?

I quite liked Windows 3.51....

Zune ?

I'll happily stick with my Sandisk Sansa E 280. Audio, video etc No problem. DRM What's that :-)

zune

I have to say, I initially quite liked the idea of the Zune when it was first spoken about. The idea of wi-fi-ing songs was quite nice, something the PSP's been missing for a while. After 4 different ipods died on me within warranty, i'd sold the fifth one and needed to replace it, and the zune was looking promising, but then i found out about the 3 play limit?! CRAZY! they crippled such a nice little idea. oh well. I bought a 4gb card for my PSP instead, not as portable, but nicer in the car.

Microsoft's own fault

JimC: "It's because of the thieves that that padlock and chain weigh more than the pushbike, not because of the cycle manufacturer."

Not only weigh more; cost more than the bike (to the point where it's actually cheaper to leave a bike unlocked and replace it if and when it gets stolen, than to bother locking it up in the first place), require more maintenance than the bike, make it less manoeuvrable in traffic, and positively attract thieves.

RE: Blaming hackers for M$ ineptitude?

"Its because of the thieves that that padlock and chain weigh more than the pushbike, not because of the cycle manufacturer."

Except that with a pushbike, I choose to use my own padlock and chain to *protect* my rights as the owner of that bike. I can chain it up wherever I want, and unlock it whenever I want, I can lend the bike to my friends. If I want to, I can make spare copies of the key, and I can sell the bike on when I no longer want it.

With DRM, the padlock and chain are imposed on me by the vendor and *restrict* my rights as the purchaser of that song or video. I have to use the file in the vendor's own player, I can never (legally) remove the locks, I can't lend it to my friends, and it's the vendor who decides whether or not I can copy it or sell it on.

I remember a time....

...when you used to just put a CD or cassette in a device called a Walkman (or Discman) and then just pressed 'Play'.

Sounds like folks have just made life very difficult for themselves.

Just waiting...

....for something like the fantastic Anapod Explorer to be released for the Zune...

That software is the first thing I buy for my family of iPod (or iPos as I like to call them) users.... iTunes is way to convoluted.

WTF..?

"Anyway it's not a bad little player. It does the RADIO, and that was a feature that was missing in the i land of players. Battery life is 4 hours of stored music files and 6+ of radio time."

My iRiver did radio when I got it 3-4 years ago, and had 16 hours of playback time (all for cheaper than an iPod - I don't really ever use it since I tend to always have other ways of playing music to hand, but I still have it and it still works), not a piddly 6 hours.. that is unbelievably pathetic.

(I really wish we got notified of future comments, as I never check back to see if anyone replies :P )

Microsoft Ineptitude?

rant

Right, as a tech user of a fair number of years I have _finally_ had enough of people who insist on blaming Microsoft for all the world's ills. Believe me, I am no Microsoft fan, but in the same way that I would never drive a Scoda.

OK, kids, clean out those ears and listen...

Microsoft sells products for people to use. These products will invariably break, just as if you drive a car at 9000rpm everywhere then in first gear then that will break. If you bend the tongs on a fork, then it ceases to become a fork. If you want to hack Windows, then hack. It was _never_ sold to be unbreakable or guarenteed to be completely secure.

GET THE FUCK OVER IT, PEOPLE.

Operating Systems, in whatever flavour, are tools to do a job. That's it. Sometimes they are fallible, sometimes not. Programs, again in whatever flavour or guise, are tools to do a job. If you don't like them, or find them unfit-for-purpose, then use something else.

It's still a free country, last time I checked. At least for the moment...

/rant

Right, I'm going to get drunk now. Had a lousy day.....

Women....can't live with them, can't shoot them.

Not a very good troll... must try harder!

> Believe me, I am no Microsoft fan, but in the same way that I would never drive a Scoda.

Mmm... Not sure what to make of that, given that Skodas are pretty good these days -- even Whych says so. :-)

But you are missing a couple of points. Firstly, the discussion is about DRM, and DRM is software broken by design, in order to prevent me, as a purchaser of a content, to do with that content as I damn well like. The three strikes.... er, plays and "you are out" is a particularly blatant "pigopolist" move.

Secondly, as a more general point, MS stuff is engineered in a way which breaks all rules of good software design, 'cause modularity and clean interfaces would give other companies too much scope for providing alternatives, so it's all entangled as a matter of deliberate choice. As any 1st year IT student will tell you, the inevitable and demonstrable result is more buggy software. But because MS managed to get themselves into a de facto monopoly position, telling people to "use something else" is simply naive. Most people don't want the hassle of dealing with "near compatibility", which is anyway always at risk of being subverted by the next version of MS software.