Serial eBay fraudster jailed for two years A low-rent recidivist con man who targeted eBay customers was jailed for two years on Tuesday. Phillip Shortman, 20, from Cwmbran near Newport in south Wales, was sent to a young offenders' institution following a conviction for ripping off consumers to the tune of £14,000 and breaching the terms of his probation. Shortman …
He gets two years and will most likely be out in under 12 months.
I have met several scammers, and they are usually the people who shout longest and loudest if someone rips them off or steals something off them.
Amputate his hands - at the neck! Failing that, lock all scammers and fraudsters up for a full ten years, with hard labour.
We all had that hopeful dream about computers, the web, world peace and all that. But along comes someone who is determined to inflict pain on others despite being caught and punished before. Someone who is 20 and already married with two kids yet spent the proceeds on limo rides with friends!
Someone who, in other words, should be banned from using a computer or accessing the web. For a long, long time. And possibly only allowed monitored access afterwards as well.
I actually think this should be a de facto punishment of anyone who commits a crime. Deny them the liberty to communicate electronically with others for a set length of time. Female crime would drop pretty sharpish anyway!
The sentence is, IMHO, about right.
The thing that really sucks is that he would, probably, have gotten a lighter sentence for mugging an old dear in the street for a tenner. The justice system, IMHO, puts far too much emphasis on financial loss when it should concentrate on locking up those that commit violent crimes (and locking them up for a very long time)
I would agree that such a minor punishment for a repeat offender isn't much of a deterrant. However, considering how crowded the jails are, who should we release to let him stay in there longer.
I'd rather an ebay scammer were out than a repeat offence burglar - but that's probably because my "lack of faith in ecommerce" means that I wouldn't use ebay if you paid me - I tend to stick to more traditional online shops, even if it costs a couple of quid more.
he should still have been inside for the first one - looks like 10 - 12 yrs for £45K of armed robbery. eg http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nottinghamshire/5016790.stm
Still, I suppose you could argue ripping ebayers off is performing a public service in educating dimwits about t'interent.
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Look in almost any category, and the chances are you'll find umpteen buy-it-nows from the same seller, improperly registered as a "private" seller but very obviously buying to sell, ie most definitely running a business not selling their own unwanted presents and family possessions.
Now, consider that the both the law and ebay require business sellers to include their name and address either in their listing or on their ME page -- because the law requires that information to be available to potential buyers, BEFORE they bid for their items.
Now, consider what proportion of business sellers on ebay actually DO include their name and address in the specified manner. Probably LESS THAN ONE PER CENT.
Ebay is effectively aiding and abetting by turning a blind eye to sellers who fraudulently misrepresent themselves as private sellers and/or admit to being businesses but fail to include their name and address.
A simple answer would be to make online auction houses jointly liable in law for the misdemeanors of those who sell on the site, which would make them more keen to validate their sellers and ensure they include the necessary legal information in their listings.
I don't think the whole arguement about it being a none serious crime really holds up, he ripped people off for thousands of pounds, left people feeling cheated, made people go through the hassle of the courts to get justice, and undermines the value of a useful (but flawed) method of trading.
The problem is what do you do with someone who will spend the time in prison then do it again? Locking him up just wastes a massive amount of money and is a waste of a life, it also doesn't help the victims.
To me a system of community service (shit jobs) with short term imprisonment in unpleasent conditions if he fails to attend is probably the way forwards. Cheap labour, cheaper prison places if they dont 'co-operate' and a way to pay back the victims.
Yes, and eBay does not make it any easier to reclaim money... The crap I went through to get my claim through eBay's system is nothing short of a bad joke. Today I finally received my claimed money after nearly 7 months, yes, that's SEVEN months. I lodged my claim in early February.
eBay is BEYOND a joke.
So 2 years (12 months) in prison...... Whats to stop him doing it all again ?
Make thousands and thousands of pounds through crime, live a life of luxury blowing cash on limos and shopping trips and then get 12 months inside a nice cosy prison with 3 meals cooked for you a day, access to a gym, TV and internet.
I have to cook my meals and pay for my TV, internet and Gym membership for god sake.
Actually, with his free prison broadband service, whats to stop him starting scamming before he is relased?
I use ebay quite a bit (am not a seller just have a lot of junk). Any auction I operate is on a strict no pay, no receive any goods.
So how can you get scammed. Ok an idiot might bid and not pay but he doesn't get the goods either. Unless of course the people that have been scammed have sent him items before payment has cleared. Then in some ways that is really stupid on the sellers part. I only accept certain payment methods and if anyone uses a cheque it has to clear in my account before I send the item. I check with the bank to make sure the cheque can't be cancelled.
The article doesn't sound like he was a seller just a bidder. If this is the case and the goods don't exist then use a secure payment method and you will get your money back. I have experienced a seller who just didn't send me the item and broke off all contact. Dispute filed with Paypal and received my money 2 weeks later.
It's not right he scammed people but if you are handing over goods before payment cleared that I am sorry you only have yourself to blame. It's a little like the people who fall for the 419 scam.
Basically, it's evolution.
People will be scammed until they reliase that actually it CAN happen to them. Once this has been achieved, the income for scammers will dry up and the scammers will fade out of history.
If you get done by a phishing or eBay scammer then, quite frankly, you're not intellegent enough to use the internet. A few years ago this would not have been the case, however nowadays with all the press and hype surrounding the completely evil filth that is the internet [1], you deserve to have your access rights removed.
As I said, it's evolution. Maybe users won't be removed from the gene pool, but certainly from the threadpool...
[1] Ah yes, the internet. According to the Daily Mail (and similar papers) the source of all child abuse, pornography and satan worshipping since the ice-age - maybe one of the criteria for an ISP should be "Do you read the Daily Mail? If yes, you don't want to use the internet. If no, how much can we charge you?"
I've been defrauded by a guy selling a graphics card... Took me for £200. Lodged a complaint with eBay who had the account frozen, and they started their procedure for getting me a refund.
Outcome? 3 months later, i'd received £2.24. Apparently that's satisfactory for them, and they closed the case.
eBay / PayPal has attrocious practices regarding this, and i'd never touch either again.
Having foolishly been ripped off by a seller of DVDs on ebay (they were pirate copies), and repoorted this to ebay, from their reaction I can only conclude that ebay are happy for a certain amount of fraud (a lot, ISTM) to carry on if it means that hey can continue to operate easily. Ebay doing something about the fraud that goes on would just be too difficult for them - which is why they need to be forced in to it by law. They hide behind the defence that they a re "just providing a marketplace", which seems pretty flimsy to me. I'm no shill for copyright holders (I've used Linux for over 10 years, and contribute to EFF), but I still hate the casual practise of copying and selling DVDs/music. Several ebayers told me (when I left negative feedback) that "of course they were pirated" - and that I should have expected that. Well I didn't, and was astounded that they were happy for it to be so. Ah well, as someone else said, I wouldn't use ebay if you paid me to.
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I've bought and sold tons of stuff on eBay and never had a problem. Maybe that's because I take care who I buy from and don't get suckered into too-good-to-be-true deals, "I only accept cash / PO / Cheque payments because..." type crap, or suspicious / missing feedback history.
If you buy with paypal, or better still a credit card, you're covered against fraud anyway. Same goes for any online purchase. Have a look at Section 75 of Consumer Credit Act 1974 - then cancel your "fraud protection insurance" kindly sold to you by your bank, you don't need it, they do.
"Any auction I operate is on a strict no pay, no receive any goods. So how can you get scammed."
Even if you do that, there's still LOTS of ways of getting scammed. For example:
-Bidder wins auction, sends money to seller by paypal.
-Seller sees money has arrived, sends goods.
-Bidder receives goods but claims goods never arrived, starts chargeback with Paypal.
-Seller has money taken from their Paypal account, so they've lost the money AND the item.
It's up to the seller to prove that the bidder received the goods. Even with recorded deliveries though, there have been cases where the bidder has still managed to get a chargeback from Paypal successfully because they claim someone else signed for the item.
Ebay protects buyers more than it protects sellers, and this is how a lot of scammers operate.
be singled out ebay is an insecure joke and a good place to get
fleeced It doesn't undermine my faith in ecommerce I think real
online stores are fine but that whole ebay/paypal auction thing is
a farce let him go do it some more maybe some people will finally
get the hint and get their stuff from the real sellers but no they won't
because just like him it doesn't matter what happens they aren't bright
enough to twig to the whole cause and effect thing.
"I can only conclude that ebay are happy for a certain amount of fraud"
Precisely why its the LAW that needs to make the auctioneer jointly responsible for that fraud. Ebay isn't going to do it voluntarily if it thinks it can get away without.
An "Online Auctions Act" could make sites such as ebay jointly responsible if their sellers fail to supply goods or honour statutory obligations including warranty, or if the seller having misrepresented the goods as being in the UK then ships them from elsewhere, thereby causing the buyer unexpected expense through tax, duty or loss of expected statutory rights such as fitness for purpose. It could also very sensibly extend the provisions of the Distance Selling Act to ALL online auctions not just those at fixed price.
"if you are handing over goods before payment cleared that I am sorry you only have yourself to blame"
And of course, if you pay before seeing the goods, you only have yourself to blame as well, I suppose ?
The only true solution to this situation is a function apparently missing on Ebay (don't know, have never and will never use it) :
When a bid is accepted and final, automatically Ebay should create an escrow account between the seller and the buyer. The buyer would transfer the money to that escrow account and could no longer retrieve it without due process. The seller could then send the items to their recipient under guaranteed postal delivery. Once the post has confirmed delivery to Ebay, the escrow account is released to the seller. Any issue along the line gets bumped into the resolution process.
I think that should about do it for everyone.
True enough comments. It has been my experience that I have had very few problems on ebay.
Yes I have been hit by the copied DVD's but then I never bid much for any DVD just in case.
Yes someone could say they haven't received an item but everything I send goes Recorded Delivery and I never allow anyone to collect an item (a great scam I heard about, collect an item then say you didn't receive it)
I don't sell to anyone with low feedback scores and all my auctions require Paypal registered addresses.
I never buy high value items from new sellers i.e. 50 of so feedback 100% positive.
As I said there are risks but I try to minimalise them as much as possible. When I had my incident with the idiot who took my money and didn't send the goods I was not following my own rules and took a chance because it was a bargain. Too good to be true = it is, doesn't matter about the excuses.
It's like anything in life you have to mitigate the risk. Providing you do that you will be less likely to get burnt. You can't avoid it all together but you have a better chance.
Saying you won't use ebay at all because you are scared of being scammed is like not stepping outside for fear of being stabbed. All are likely it's how much of a risk it is.
Divestiture of citizenship, and deportation. Deportation not to some paradise like Australia, but deportation to Iran, Libya, Gaza, Mongolia, North Korea, or a similar "Peoples' Paradise." Deportation without documents of any kind, with only the cloths on his back, no wallet, no jewelry, nothing. No need to ask the permission of the destination government, either; it's not as if these are people we want as friends. Well, I suppose a parachute might be a reasonable possession, and perhaps 5 minutes of instruction would be a gift that's appreciated at some point.
It's not capital punishment; it's an opportunity to learn how to get along in a world where hard work and honesty are rewarded (with a casket around age 35).
Sell the prisoners' time on ebay as slave labour.
That way they will contribute to society and pay their own way (for once).
They won't need 3 meals a day (govermnent savings), won't need internet to keep them occupied (more bandwidth for the law abiding) and they will be kept fit and occupied so won't need the TV and gym equipment (these can be sold on ebay for a nice tax refund).
.... and this lifestyle might be a better deterrant.
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