Windows XP given additional resuscitation

oh the fun ...

Well at least if XP supported and availability is being extended it will mean that drivers and security patches will continue to be released.

Maybe even some things like IE8 (eeek) or the dreaded DirectX 10 maybe ulitmately back ported to properly support XP.

And while Vista maybe a disaster for MS ...I am sure Windows7 will not handle the low end either so standby for XP for the next 5 years!

Obligatory Linux comment

Having switched a couple of months ago from XP to Linux I can totally vouch for Linux superiority. The _only_ reason XP has any reason to exist is because of the eco-system concern where essential apps are only available on MS' platform. It was an easy switch, loving it.

@Tigre

XP Home is uniprocessor, but there's no limit on cores that single processor can have (AFAIK, I know it's fine for dual core).

@Tigre Marino

XP Home manages quite well to see both cores in my Pentium D 805 system. I don't think that there will be much of an issue in a dual core system running XP Home.

Ultimate non-modular

I agree with ceebee: I'd love to see how Windows 7 is going to support ultra-light PCs any better than Vista does. Or is MS once again hoping that improved technology will allow cheap-and-light machines to handle Vista/Win7 by then?

The problem is that the Windows core is, by design, a huge, ugly, monolithic monstrosity. With no built-in modularity, it becomes damned difficult to make a version "with most of the crap stripped out" without accidentally breaking something else, and making support so much more difficult.

Now even Linux is not a modern* micro-core design, but it's still much more modular and adaptable, stretching from hand-helds to super-computers. If MS keep dropping the ball like they have with Vista, then Linux has a VERY bright future ahead of it.

*) For "modern", read "largely academic and non-commercial". It's such a shame that the "real world" lags so far behind academia, except for "niche" systems like Plan 9. Although the economic prerogatives of backwards-compatibility make this inevitable.

Windows 7

I don't think the low-cost PC market is going to go away anytime soon; Microsoft have to consider this in the design of Windows 7 and ensure that their next O/S is able to function properly on low-power hardware, otherwise they'll be back in the same scenario of hardware manufacturers being forced to ship linux.

The Challenge

Dick Emery: "For everyone else a bog standard PC is perfectly adequate and runs XP at a useable speed. Why do we need a new bloaty OS when the one we have works just fine? Until I see something groundbreaking enough to warrant an upgrade I see no reason to 'upgrade' to Vista."

I second that. Modern computing is approaching 40 years, maybe 50 even 60 years old it's time to pause and take stock of where we are. On the hardware side we largely still have the beige box. Ok so we've put fancy blue LEDs on the outside and tarted the chassis up a bit but its still a clunky box.

On the software side, the jaw dropping moment for me will be when the future computer:

- Boots near instantaneously into a usable desktop (and that doesn't include a desktop that is displayed but unusable whilst you wait for the services to load)

- Doesn't need to be rebooted after updates, updates should be quick and painless.

- Frees you from the worry about spyware and virus issues to the point that system resources are not having to be consumed even by an embedded antivirus system in the background.

- Abstracts the user interface in some nice way such that you literally have links to: Email/IM, Web, Games, Office, Media and that's about it. Obviously a server edition of this future computer would have additional links.

- Installation of a game package should be as easy as drag and drop. Uninstall likewise, and the uninstall should remove *everything*, no cruft. Remember, you the user just want to use the computer not have to manage it as well.

- Manages your documents such that you can hierarchical store them how you see fit (all in one sensible location on the future computer, not in the root drive, not in my documents, etc, etc) but that they are replicated so you can get to them from anywhere in the world, and they are secured.

- Handles as many different media formats as possible all abstracted from you the user. If media conversion is necessary it should be as simple as renaming the file whilst maintaining aspect ratio, sound quality, etc etc.

- Doesn't crash or lock up or suddenly slow down for no explicable reason. Yes yes this is a tough one, but this is the ideal. If you can solve this you can retire immediately, somewhere hot, with a nice beach.

If such a desktop system were to come on the market I, probably like most people, would be willing to part with a lot of good money for it.

Disclaimer: most of the criticism in the above points could apply equally to Linux, Windows, Mac, etc.

Here's hoping anyway...

Not just CPU power

This is what happens when you price a new OS as more expensive than the computers that will be running it!

Yuk

I welcome this if we can get reasonable business machines with it on... i am busting my nuts ensuring that all machines in my office stick with XP, i've not yet had a good experience with Vista... though i do like it as it has done wonders for OS X!

Nice...

...now if we can just convince Dell to stop charging an extra 50 quid for the privilege of having an "outdated" operating system installed, the World will be back to rights (then again, they probably got Vista at a major discount just to shift a few copies...).

XP still off the radar

I won't use XP because I read the EULA. I can't agree to that pile of shite! I own my computer. I don't give MS carte blanche to remove, install and inspect MY stuff on my computer. I don't agree to let it phone home. I do not agree to having it linked to one OEM machine (which was the issue with Win9x but with activation, they can refuse to let it install).

So I will not use and agree to the XP EULA. It's still off the radar.

Maybe when they turn off product activation (as they said they would when activation came out for XP, but then again, I'm assuming they will do what they said to get activation accepted).

@Tigre

As far as I know mate, all versions of XP will handle multi-core processors. x64 is better at it than x32, but they'll all have a crack at it. Standard XP licence has always been for "1-2 processors" as far as I know, so you should be good at least up to dual core. x64 handles my dual-dual-core (twin Opteron) box very nicely indeed.

@Mark

Software firewall mate. I just block all the Windows services from phoning home.

If someone makes a copy of Linux that looks and functions pretty much like XP (and I know there are ones that are getting pretty darned close), that's it for the ultra-mobiles and low end I-just-want-it-to-work PCs. The second MS withdraw XP that entire sector will fall to Linux. Windows Vista and 7 won't be able to run on that sort of hardware for a good few years yet - perhaps not even 2010.

Could this be the beginning of the beginning?

@ Robert Harrison

"Boots near instantaneously into a usable desktop (and that doesn't include a desktop that is displayed but unusable whilst you wait for the services to load)"

Atari ST.

@ highlander

The box shifters have already seen the light - it used to be that you could only get a box with Vistaaargh on it, then they offered XP Home as OEM alternative - not installed with no sign of XP Pro, now they are offering XP Pro as either OEM or pre-installed.

Oh, and no to XP being 'Vista Lite' - they'll just tell us that the sales of Vista soared and how much people liked it.

MS defends itself - no surprise

It's been obvious to me at least, that MS would revive XP to fend off Linux.

It will probably work to some extent for a while too.

However MS has serious problems as this concept affects Office too.

Do you think that people will be happy to pay 200 for Office on their Small Cheap PC? I don't think so. So either MS undermnes its own business or they give the business to Openoffice.org

Then there is the fact that XP is old old old. So either they continue to develop it (undermining Vista) or the new Linuxes such as Ubuntu will steal the market from MS anyway.

MS are in a Catch 22 position, and the only way is down.

Opensource will win this market - but it will take a few years

MS needs to diversify to survive in the medium/long term - and they probably need to adopt opensource themselves

Re: No surprise really

However, the difference now is that activations must continue to be honoured. Win9x didn't need activation and there were no bugfixes, so continuing to support it was minimal effort.

Not so any more.

Re: Software firewall

True, Greg. As long as you don't trust the built-in firewall. Also, NAV (I think) said about the US government keylogger that they weren't going to block it. Huge outcry, but since the software is closed, this doesn't *necessarily* mean anything.

Use a cheap linux box as a firewall, log packets and cache the interweb. Reduces your risk and the cost of your internet connection.

@ Robert Harrison, Gilbert Wham et al re:boot speed

Way back in 1999 I was millennium bug fixing stuff for a large county council based somewhere in Nottinghamshire, who shall remain nameless.

During times we were'nt patching the Netware 3.12 boxes to compliance we tended to install computers in schools, firestations, libraries and similar county places.

As the hardware was quite new, top end PII, bottom end PIII (all around 500MHz IIRC) but the only OS properly tested and accepted by the county was Windows 3.11 the startup process was something like:

POSTDOSWindows

In a few small seconds. The POST took longer than loading Windows.

I have to say these days I never turn my computer off anyway so I don't worry about startup times as it is about as long as it takes me to switch the monitor on and move the mouse.

@ Robert Harrison

- Boots near instantaneously into a usable desktop (and that doesn't include a desktop that is displayed but unusable whilst you wait for the services to load)

Check.

Ubuntu may need a reboot after a 6 months upgrade - but can suspend/restart in seconds.

- Doesn't need to be rebooted after updates, updates should be quick and painless.

Check.

Ubuntu doesn't always need a reboot after an upgrade let alone updates. Also, ALL software on the system is included in the updates - spreadsheets, browsers, library files, OS files, - everything.

MS updaets the OS, Macs update the OS and most Apple software - Ubuntu updates ALL software.

- Frees you from the worry about spyware and virus issues to the point that system resources are not having to be consumed even by an embedded antivirus system in the background.

Check.

- Abstracts the user interface in some nice way such that you literally have links to: Email/IM, Web, Games, Office, Media and that's about it. Obviously a server edition of this future computer would have additional links.

Check.

Ubuntu's default Gnome window manager is a great clean interface.

- Installation of a game package should be as easy as drag and drop. Uninstall likewise, and the uninstall should remove *everything*, no cruft. Remember, you the user just want to use the computer not have to manage it as well.

Check.

Easier than drag and drop - just select tick box next to it on list in Add/Remove programs.

- Manages your documents such that you can hierarchical store them how you see fit (all in one sensible location on the future computer, not in the root drive, not in my documents, etc, etc) but that they are replicated so you can get to them from anywhere in the world, and they are secured.

Check.

Shared Documents can be accessed from the Place menu option. Depends on how you want it set up but we have a central server for docs and a folder on my desktop is connected straight to it.

- Handles as many different media formats as possible all abstracted from you the user. If media conversion is necessary it should be as simple as renaming the file whilst maintaining aspect ratio, sound quality, etc etc.

Check.

Ubuntu uses much cleverer stuff than (ha ha) file extensions. All media formats I've tried have been handled automatically.

- Doesn't crash or lock up or suddenly slow down for no explicable reason. Yes yes this is a tough one, but this is the ideal. If you can solve this you can retire immediately, somewhere hot, with a nice beach.

Check.

Easy one. Unix based so crashing doesn't really happen.

If such a desktop system were to come on the market I, probably like most people, would be willing to part with a lot of good money for it.

Don't need to - Ubuntu 8.04 is here for free.

Try it - what have you got to lose - I think you'll be shocked at how good it is compared to MS products.

Of course - you might have to admit that you're behind the curve a bit - but you'll still be a relatively early adopter.

Also, I'm not as experienced with Mac's but I think most of the points I've made apply to Mac's as well.

MS Claims 'Reduction in Greenhouse Gasses'

.

XP fan here.

I'm not sure about the rights and wrongs of false advertising claims by American companies such as Microsoft but does anyone really believe Microsoft’s claim that –

"Every 10 PCs that switch over to Windows Vista is the equivalent of taking an automobile off the road, in terms of greenhouse gasses"

is conscionable?

Who are they trying to convince? What about the consequences of having to recycle the hardware dump triggered by the need to buy better, faster, bigger and more power-hungry systems just to do essentially the same job? I won’t even mention the energy wasted in earning the extra cash needed to buy the thing. OK, the old saying ‘You pays your money and you takes you choice’ is one thing but being forced to pay for unnecessary or unwanted 'features’ is no more than simple ransom, robbery or hijacking.

They are talking to the wrong people. The USA has about 2 cars per person (statistically) and MS is telling us to buy Vista to keep the greenhouse gas emissions down. WARNING: Creditability failure confirmed!

If MS want to try the ‘Believe me I’m believable’ line maybe they should stick a ‘Bio’ label on the Vista boxes and logos – sure to get the green (as in immature or gullible) punters coming.

WALK (What a Load of Krap - especially Americanised to protect proper English).

BTW I’m really, really impressed that Vista now supports 77,000 printers, cameras, speakers and other devices. I have just a few but whenever I add something new the supplier’s default recommendation is usually “Check for the latest drivers” etc.

Meanwhile, in a dirty shed behind Redmond...

Staff: Look, if we don't keep supporting XP we are toast

BillG: But I want the whole world to run on Vista

Staff: You don't get it Bill, if we keep pushing Vista, we're doomed. Even the pre-installed machines are getting wiped in favour of anything but Vista

BillG: Noooo - it's my life's work, all those security holes for me to browse in my retirement

Staff: Look mate - your outta here in 3 weeks - just piss off and let us try to salvage something from this mess.

XP forever?

"When the XP home licensing extension expires in 2010, Microsoft has said the successor to Vista (Windows 7), will already be in the hands of consumers."

Which given Microsoft's track record on bloat, will be an even bigger resource pig than Vista, even if it's a better product overall.

Meanwhile. many users will continue to be happy with specs that aren't capable of running Vista or it's successor. Leaving XP to stand in the gap, or Linux to take over.

That leaves Microsoft with some uncomfortable options to choose from:

1. Drop XP, cede the low-end market to Linux and hope that it stays there. I can't see them doing that, somehow, because the last thing they need is for average consumers to realize that you *don't* need Windows after all.

2. Make a cut-down Windows 7 version which is capable of running on low-end gear. I'd put longer odds on that than I would on Red Rum winning the next Grand National from beyond the grave. I don't think they know how...

3. Continue extending XP's lifespan until the minimum comfortable spec anyone will buy rises to meet Vista Basic's needs. Which might be never, given the success of cut-down systems like the Eee.

They've bet the farm on computer users continuing to demand bigger, faster, more powerful systems, but maybe that wasn't such a good move after all.

"Then there is the fact that XP is old old old."

But that doesn't stop it working.

What about XP will not work in this new Digital Age? DRM not built in to the OS? Well, that's not the OS's fault. WMP10 on XP still has DRM (for all the good it does).

Does it run games?

Yes.

Does it handle all the families of hardware out there?

Yes.

Does it have multiple accounts so you can share the home computer with your family?

Yes.

So what about XP makes it no longer suitable for use?

Nothing is my intimation.

Key Selling Points...

two points, firstyl open souce won't win this microsoft will, with windows, but not the way it currently is. to compete with linux windows will be cheaper, much cheaper. ditto office for 'home' usage, business license will still be expensive but the 'non commercial' usage will be cheap enough to effectivly keep linux as a specialists system. drop the price to similar to an OS X system, sub £100 and they have it more or less nailed.

second point. Assume I have a fully working XP system, on a machine powerful enough to run vista without any significant (to me) concerns...

sell me vista. *whats in it for me* to upgrade exactly? what will *I* be able to do that I can't do now? and more to the point, what will I be able to do thats *worth* the cost of upgrading (ignore the time taken etc, thats life with computers these days, just the financial cost).

the EULA etc are essentially not relevent, there is no 'business case' for a home user to upgrade. DX10? bwah, get a console, the DRM at least generally works there.

personally I use a mac at home, and a windows machine for work. the mac is a better 'platform' in many ways, but windows is generally better at getting things done due to the software. pays ya money etc.

but if microsoft want to 'win' they need to drop the price of windows so using it or not becomes a non issue, drop all the different versions, have *one* (ok maybe a 32 and 64 bit version, but on the same disc with an installer that uses the correct one). sell add-ons by all means, and by all means keep the OS 'light' but make it workable and it will be used and sell.

license office for non commercial usage and open office is more or less dead in the water.

but to date *no one* has pointed out exactly what I get for my £x when I upgrade that makes it worth my money to do it. what exactly is the key selling point here?

@ C

"a hosts file from MVPS.org and then add some MS domains to it."

Host files ignore MS domains - try it :D