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back to article Microsoft says ‘hasta la vista XP’ - well, kinda

Microsoft yesterday sent customers a letter reaffirming its plans to kill off Windows XP sales at the end of June and that system builders can continue to ship machines loaded with the OS until early 2009. That widely-known caveat has been viewed by many as a considerable insurance policy for the software giant, which has failed …

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Optimist

"Windows 7 (which to us sounds increasingly like Vista, mark two) will land about 18 months from now."

Yeah right...

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Gates Horns

windows 7

So why not wait until windows 7, they might have made it work by then.

Need a lemming icon for corporate lemming behaviour!

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And Microsoft says...

We got it it wrong again - never mind hey!

No picture - 'cos you don't have one of Bill G or Steve B with a knob on their heads!

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Gates Horns

Vista a new WinME?

Anyone with any experience of Windows Server 2008? (driver support etc?) Is it going to be the new PC powergamer platform?

It runs DirectX 10 (the Vista carrot-stick) and without the Vista cruft (and unnecessary services have been disabled) apparently performs around 15% better too. Have MS created a new WinME-Windows2000 split, where those whom are most likely to upgrade (chasing the latest game features/performance) are going to avoid the OS MS has invested so much attention in and skip it in favour of what feels more like the successor to XP?

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Gates Horns

What's the point?

I still don't get it. The press seems completely obsessed now with windows 7. But it seems obvious to me that the problem with Vista is the new architecture and corresponding code base. SO... if windows 7 is just Vista piled higher and deeper (w7 PHD) the underlying problems remain.

The part that has been utterly lost in all the chatter is that when Bill announced M$ was spending X billions to make windows more secure people thought he meant against viruses. CLEARLY he meant the DRM that makes Vista UNUSABLE for more than solitare. Repackaging a pile of crap does not cause it's molecules to recombine into something other than a pile of crap.

Finally, software has a VERY short lifespan - yes you can fix some bugs and make it better. But just as M$ inferred with dropping the XP code base, there comes a very finite point where you maintain it to death. W7 may be that to Vista. Of course given that Vista had an unusable, unmaintainable architecture to begin with, perhaps that isn't significant.

What M$ should do, is acknowledge that people don't want M$ to control the universe, they want to spend money for a device that works for THEM, not back door's M$'s takeover of recorded entertainment. Go back to the XP driver model, and rip out the DRM. Then you can put aero on THAT OS and have ..... Hmmm..... Linux/KDE with better drivers that will run Photoshop. Scary, no?

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"The Vista Experience"

Thats MS's problem, they view Vista as new "experience", when all anyone really gives a toss about is browing the web, playing solitaire, and viewing porn.

XP can do all that fine matey, and without paying through the nose for the bonus of frosted window bars.

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Happy

What qualifies for XP?

I wonder what resellers can get away with? I'd like to buy a 10gb hard disk on sale, pre-loaded with XP, and bundled with the installation disk, pur-lease. It's for a new system...?

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Thumb Up

What a shame...

I just got "Investigate Free / Open-Source Software Alternatives for Industry Leader Applications and Operating Systems" as a Performance Management target. This means that I get to dick about with Linux and OpenOffice.org at home AND BE WORKING AT THE SAME TIME.

So long, Microsoft!

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Tom
Paris Hilton

Business speak translation

"It has been a year of exciting and critical progress"

Translation:

"Holy crap we actually sold some of this junk, and barely managed to get it limping... hit me up with another shot o that whiskey boy-o!"

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Alert

Name Change Game

"He said that because of Vista’s incompatibility blunders, company execs, having undergone some deep and meaningfuls, decided with Windows 7 “to build off the same core architecture as Windows Vista"

Translation: Windows 7 is Vista Service Pack 2

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Rob
Stop

Windows 7 to land 18 months from now...?

"Windows 7 (which to us sounds increasingly like Vista, mark two) will land about 18 months from now."

Well given M$'s track record on time estimates, I won't be holding by breath. Or be expecting them to actually resolve any fundamental design issues that have existed since NT4.

I'm sure the new GUI will look lovely though.

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Waiting for Shell

They're going to upgrade from Win2000 to Vista next year. That's going to be a disaster. They already have their machines hardly usable because of all "network monitoring and optimizing" crud. I mean dual core centrinos with like 2GB memory, on Win2000. Booting up takes already 2-5 minutes. I would like to see how Vista is going to perform with all this crudware. Accepting that they have all those thousands employees it will burn a small hole in Internet when they start complaining. I wonder if MSFT prepares special version for them just to stop all those employees badmouthing them?

Anonymous because of obvious reasons...

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Dear God

Windows 7 will build on Vista?

Using a graph I drew based on each MS O/S "minimum requirement" I have to ask:

Is there that much RAM in the known universe?

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Stop

Cut the crap

Ok, time for all the "Vista sucks" brigade to sit down and shut up.

I can buy a Vista Business machine that runs Aero (and runs it *well*) for $399. In fact I've already bought 2 of them to supplement the fleet of 9 others that cost $499.

I can buy nicely spec'ed Vista business machine for $499 (2GB, dual layer DVD, 250GB HD, dual P4's).

If you want a new computer, it's Vista. If you have XP, then keep XP. Where's the pain? Unless the EU's VAT tax drives the price of a new computer into the stratosphere there's simply no excuse.

For the (very few) programs that won't run Vista keep them on XP for now and hammer the vendor to get their act together. All our other software simply runs. No muss, no fuss.

Been using Vista for over a year now, it works, it's stable, it runs fast on new hardware (that's super cheap). We have one archaic app that needs a vendor-specific hardware card that doesn't have a Vista driver. Other than that, no issues.

Even my SP35 badge printer now has a Vista driver!

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Anonymous Coward

Deluded

Our boss announced to us some months back "Vista is the best operating system Microsoft have ever produced". Since then most people have left.

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With Extended Support

you just pay lots of money to M$ to be told when you have a problem that the only fix is to upgrade. More than useless really.

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Will someone please think..

For god's sake, will someone just think of the children....!

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Linux

You know, a smart company might do this....

If Microsoft were a smart company (I said *IF*), they might adopt the Linux kernel as the basis for their new OS and then port their proprietary user interface onto that new kernel. They could bring their virtualization to the party to enable legacy Windows applications. If they really want to do something about system security they could use that virtualization tech of theirs to run all applications inside a virtual PC and build a framework around that to trap malware activity.

Now, I did say *if* they were a smart company.

What I expect them to do is try to pull off some kind of bait and switch with Windows 7 which is supposed to solve all sorts of Vista ill-will. The interface will be tweaked, but in 18 months no one will mind the hardware requirements of Aero, so no problems there eh? The basic OS will be polished to make the annoying DRM and broken, pointless and yet highly intrusive system security will have a new veneer of usability and impression of capability - without actually being any different under the wrapper. However it will have been so long since XP arrived, and it won't be Vista (which will quickly be dismissed as a mistake once Win 7 arrives). So reviews will be guardedly positive and consumers will leap for it hoping that it's "Better Than Vista"(TM).

I really would like to see Microsoft put the talents it has into building a top flight Linux based desktop OS. They do save some really talented designers and software engineers, not to mention a massive pool of talented programmers. Ain't gonna happen though.

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Linux

Re: "What a shame"

Welcome to the club! Have a great time with your Performance Management target. Make sure that you get a cut of the savings from not paying license fees/buying higher-spec kit just so you can see 3D windows.

Did I really read this right?? Buy Vista (if you must), then buy XP, so you can downgrade your own kit??

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next OS?

So, wonder why we're not hearing anything about the *next* O/S release from Microsoft (yes, this is irony). We are all supposed to forget that what was going to make Longhorn special was big improvements like the filesystem-is-a-database. Did that have to be abandoned altogether (like because it was too slow), or is it still cooking away unnoticed in some lab waiting to cruelly unhorse linux in the big O/S joust.

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Unhappy

Translation

"He said that because of Vista’s incompatibility blunders, company execs, having undergone some deep and meaningfuls, decided with Windows 7 “to build off the same core architecture as Windows Vista so the investments you and our partners have made in Windows Vista will continue to pay off with Windows 7. Our goal is to ensure the migration process from Windows Vista to Windows 7 is straightforward.” "

Translation:

"Our customers realised that Vista is a pile of bloated, over priced crap that extraordinarily requires more system resources to do less than ever before and therefore refused or dragged their heels in a very unsheep-like manner.

As a result all of our departments have been instructed to leverage our monopoly to ensure that everything we produce from now on will inexplicably and improbably "require" Windows Vista. You will upgrade. You will pay more for it. You will come back for more again next time."

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Thank god

Anyone that has used Vista in an enterprise environment will be glad to hear XP slowly being outed. XP was a fantastic OS (well, from SP2 onwards) and Vista is just an upgrade on that. Did have high hardware spec's and louzy drivers but you can't buy a PC that won't run Vista OK on todays market and driver support is infinately better than XP.

That in mind - what is so bad about Vista? On a new PC with no OEM crap installed there is nothing worse in Vista than XP - but there's a lot better and a lot of new stuff too. (UAC, IE7+, DX10, BitLocker, Instant Search, ImageX, new GPO's, new GUI, better driver support, mobility centre, numberous security improvements, etc.)

Between the better driver support, much better security and new management features I stand by what I've always said about Vista.... It's not worth buying new hardware for, nor is it worth going out and paying money for the licences - but there is more than enough new stuff in it to make it worthwhile if getting it through Software Assurance (e.g. free) and/or you already have the hardware to run it.

You get it on OEM in the last year / in the future then it'll work fine and be better than XP - plus it hasn't cost you. You get it through Software Assurance then it's worth rolling out to your desktops/laptops that have a good enough spec. Cost you nothing financially and the management/support/security improvements easily outweigh the minor effort of deployment. (Which again is better than XP using RIS/WDS via ImageX)

Goodbye XP - we had some good times together; but I need more security and drivers, better management and I need a more user friendly UI. I'm leaving you for Vista. I'm sorry.

So long, and Farewell

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Anonymous Coward

RE: then pay yet more to downgrade it to XP

In the article you say "So, from July onwards, anyone who wants the old OS will have to first buy versions of Vista then pay yet more to downgrade it to XP."

Yet, as far as I can see, there is no additional charge to downgrade. What am I missing?

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Paris Hilton

Still Not Convinced that they are on a Looser

MS seem to really have a problem understanding that Vista just is not good enough for the "common" user with the average machine.

In this day and age of high speed connections/fast downloads, no one in their right mind is going to go for an OS which is so sluggish when calling up information from within as well as the constant nag of Admin rights etc, etc.

In my opinion, XP is superb (with a bit of time playing around with some free tweaks from various sites).

With or without MS support, XP will be with us for a long time and if MS wish to retain customers then they need to come up with something better and faster - before someone else does.

Paris - because even she could tell you what works for her and what does not.

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Linux IS NOT THE ANSWER

And never will be.

Open Source = No Control, pure and simple. Each group/person , only concerned with their little bit of code to do something.

The saying too many cooks spoil the broth is very rellevant to open source.

Could you really imagine your Gran running a linux machine. causes my blood to run cold.

Slim

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Jobs Halo

windows 7???

ok... trying to figure it out

windows 3.1

windows 95 = 4

windows 98 = 4.5 (?maybe)

Windows 2000 = 5

Windows ME = 5.5 -ish

Windows XP = 6

Windows Vista = 7

Windows 7 = ?? Vista reboxed?

I remember when I first booted Win2k and the message on screen said "Built on NT Technology". laughed myself silly. 'Drive our new car, its built on the chasis of one 5 years ago'

Why the hell are they admitting Win7 is built on Vista? If I was the PR guy, i would be putting as much distance between 7 and Vista as possible. Lie for gods sake if needs be.

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Coat

RE: Deluded

Our boss announced to us some months back "Vista is the best operating system Microsoft have ever produced".

Damning with faint praise.

Mine's the one with the Shakespeare First Folio in the pocket...

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Flame

Hardware not capable

I recently bought an ACER 5150 laptop for my girlfriend (Moderate spec but cheap and seemed reasonable for the light use its needed for), which came with Vista pre-installed.

This thing sports a nice fast AMD Sempron processor, a gig of RAM and huge amount of disk space ... yet you have to go take a coffee break waiting for it to do ANYTHING. This is a brand new machine, not yet cluttered with all the stuff a well used machine ends up having installed. I have been through the services and stopped as many redundant processes as possible, but its made little difference. Presumably the next step is to add another gig of RAM, but upgrades for laptops are NOT cheap.

VISTA is clearly NOT viable for some machines its being sold with. I am desperately seeking a copy of the orginal XP image that these machines were sold with until recently.

I am holding off installing XP Home from CD (which I still have from her old decomissioned PC) because I've read that the XP drivers on the Acer site aren't all suitable for that machine, and there is no product recovery disk supplied with the machine in case I wanted to abandon the rebuild and reinstate Vista...

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My Gran does run Linux

and she loves it, she says it's nicer looking than XP and simpler to use.... don't diss the silver surfers ;¬)

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Gates Horns

so effing what?

every sh*t Vista crapola that comes my way gets flattened back to XP so our stuff works. We don' need no steenkeen' Vista...

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Flame

Windows 7 will sink unless they ditch DRM

Let's face it, Vista performance is comparable to a dead dog with three broken legs. The DRM is the worst problem. There's plenty of other performance sapping and unnecessary crap but DRM's the killer. Literally and figuratively. I won't be upgrading Windows until DRM is out of the core. I'm philosophically and pragmatically against it. It shits on performance and it shits on the customer's rights to legally use their computer as they see fit without being automatically suspected of being a criminal.

NB Microsoft: what customers *really* want is sleeker, faster and without constant security holes in. We don't want new for the sake of it.

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Gates Horns

Software lifespan

"Finally, software has a VERY short lifespan - yes you can fix some bugs and make it better."

Uh, no. There are still companies stuck on DOS applications from 20 years ago. There are X applications distributed today with linux that are 40 years old. And older.

The only reason software has a very short lifespan is closed source.

You can't copy it because it's copyrighted, even though the owner doesn't WANT any money from it.

You can't update it for the new hardware/OS/hotness because you aren't given source code.

You can't reuse any of it because even bits of it are (a) hidden (b) copyrighted.

Software doesn't rot. It doesn't wear out.

MS's big win was making people think it did.

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Linux

Grandparents and Linux

I'm a grandfather and have no problems at all running Linux...

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Anonymous Coward

@Seanie Ryan

If you ignore the 9x/ME series (since it was a completely different beast than the NT series anyway), you get:

Windows NT 3.1

Windows NT 3.5

Windows NT 4.0

Windows 2000 (NT 5.0)

Windows XP (NT 5.1 - Try VER at a Command Prompt and you'll see...)

Windows Vista (NT 6.0)

Windows 7 (Probably NT 6.1 (-;)

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Re:Linux IS NOT THE ANSWER

"Could you really imagine your Gran running a linux machine. causes my blood to run cold."

Simon, I have actually now got several older relatives using Ubuntu as their desktops brought on in part by me getting fed up of having to go around and continually fix problems for them, and secondly because all they want to do is browse the web, do some email and sometimes write letters. Ubuntu installs faster, is up running faster and simply breaks far far less (by an order of magnitude). In fact I have only once this year had to help any of them with one single problem so far. They universally all find Gnome a simpler and clearer desktop to use, so tell me, why is all this a bad thing ?

I have preempted any problems by setting them up a Dyndns with an ability for me to login via ssh in the event of any issues, I am also able to double check they are doing the system updates correctly, all in all, a much better experience for them and me. More often than not if a problem did occur I will not have to pop around, and I just fix it from the comfort of my own desktop.

Yes I like Linux, no I am not a fanboi, I also like Win XP, but a bit like anal fisting its just not for everyone. People should use whichever suits the situation and needs best, and frankly a surprising number of people would find Ubuntu (or many other desktop linux these days) a much easier desktop to maintain and install than XP than many realise.

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Anonymous Coward

@ Seanie Ryan

ok... trying to figure it out

windows 3.1

windows 95 = 4

windows 98 = 4.5 (?maybe)

Windows 2000 = 5

Windows ME = 5.5 -ish

Windows XP = 6

Windows Vista = 7

Windows 7 = ?? Vista reboxed?

---------------------------------------------------------------

XP was windows NT 5.1 (as it was what 2k should of been) and server 2003 is NT 5.2. Vista is NT6. They're all NT product numbers really and don't really factor in the 9x line.

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@Simon Aspinall

Of course it's not... Linux is only the kernel... It can run other apps on top but it's only the

kernel. Now a GNU+Linux system That would be the answer.

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Jobs Horns

Vista...

Most people I have come across hate Vista, they despise it with a passion. XP is nearly always the answer to their problems. Even my own mother dislikes Vista, and she is the most technology apathetic person I know.

People by and large have dismissed Vista as nothing more than force-fed crapware. Any other company that has released such a reviled product would have got the message. But no, Microsoft wants us to bend over and suck it up again and again. Their customers want XP, but Microsoft know whats best don't they!

I use Linux because it works, I use XP because of games. Vista kills all performance and resources on every machine I have. I don't like XP but it serves a purpose, Vista is just a Windows too far.

Monopolies come and go, Microsoft has had it's day in the sun. They are not going anywhere and will become not unlike IBM. But by the time Windows 7 is released Microsoft will be saying how crap Vista is and to bend over and suck it up one more time.

And to all those Microsoft apologists that defend their corporate masters no matter what...bend over...pull down your pants...clench those buttocks...Ballmer has needs too you know!

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@ Simon Aspinall

"Could you really imagine your Gran running a linux machine. causes my blood to run cold."

Could you imagine thousands of grannies (and other typically computer-illiterate users) running windows? Sadly you can, and they do. Consequently we have botnets with more collective bandwidth available than some countries and spam coming out of our arseholes - mainly because these people don't know how to secure their PC properly.

For your typical granny linux is no worse an alternative than windows - all they need is a web browser, mail client and (possibly) a word processor. All of these come bundled with most mainstream linux distributions, for free, and they work well. Better still, they're significantly less likely to get malware/botnet shite all over their PC and end up in PC World in 12 months time because their PC is "too slow".

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Bronze badge

Oh the irony

Nice to see you around here, Mr Ballmer.

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Anonymous Coward

@ Simon Aspinall

I don't see my gran recompiling source code or haxxoring the neighbours' WiFi from the command line, no (not least because she died twenty years ago, but that's a different matter). However, in my experience of getting less computer-savvy relatives up and running with the browsing and email which they wanted to do, the only real difference is what the icon you double-click looks like.

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Anonymous Coward

Vista is slow

I have a stonking 2-core, 2.2Ghz machine with 2.5GB or RAM. Vista Business, with all that Aero cr*p turned off.

I click on "open" in an app (any app). And wait.

That is wrong.

The machine has been in use for a few months, so it's had a load of stuff installed - just as any machine would.

I am considering wasting the time installing XP on it, as I'll get the 6 hours back over the next month or to in not waiting for it to respond, or start up, or shut down.

Yuk.

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fon

still confusion then...

@Ian Ferguson:

what do you mean 'get away with'??

you can buy XP + SP2 for about £50..

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=OS-001-MS

as said, the extended support policy runs to April 2014..

so give them a ring as I did, they did not need me to buy anything else, just understand that it is for experienced users only...

- activation was quick and simple, no need for telephone support..

vista maniacs: yes, it IS possible to get it working lovely, even easier if the vendor has done it for you...

- but then you load some DVD-util program(nero, realplayer, etc...), and find it has taken the 'associations' away for its use, and you cannot see where to restore WMP11 player functions...

- the truth is, you cannot do this, it is locked!! attempts to 'upgrade or repair' wmp11 are met with "the player you want to use is older than that installed!" and you can go no further, until WMP12 ...

@Paul Ashbrook: I think the point is, buy a pc with vista (it is cheaper, due to MS deals with the company!), then just reformat, install *your* OS... BUT make sure the company you buy it from has good OS support, in case of 'strange' components! :D

@linux scaredy-cats: hey guys, its FREE!!! (as long as you agree to the open source stuff!! = for the simple guy at home that does mean no money given...)

- if a Granma can do it, you can, other wise wimps can just send lots of cash to MS!!!!

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Flame

Enjoy the overall [Vista] experience. WTF

Quote - want broader support for devices and applications in order to enjoy the overall [Vista] experience. EndQuote

WTF is all this shit about "experience", I dont believe that business or even home users want an "exerience". I think I speak for many when I say that all I want is a fucking system that works without bloatware, crapware, drmware or any other kind of fuckware that MS wants to throw in.

Aero, I could'nt give a shit about it [Bloatware]

File copying [ DRM Ware]

Security Popups [ Crap Ware]

10 Gb just to get the damned thing installed with a minimum of updates [Jokeware]

I can't see anything wonderfull about Vista for the moment. Advantage to the user = 0.

C'mon MS start learning to streamline your OS. Incorporating DRM might keep the RIAA happy but they don't pay for you software, WE DO......... AND NO EVERYONE IS NOT A FUCKING PIRATE....... Some of us actually pay for our software so why dont we have the right to REMOVE the DRM crap that makes copying files a fucking nightmare........

But then again the only way MS are going to move their asses and listen to people is when

1 : the *NIX crowd manage to bring out a better interface, (Gnome and KDE look like kiddie script material) The Linux interfaces "feel" like crap...

2 : Someone manages to create a MS Office clone ( Please do not mention Open Office, Star Office or any JAVA crap) bring back AmiPro all is forgiven.....

How come 1.2 Billion Chinese can't seem to create a new system anyway ????

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Gates Halo

Vista is actually faster than XP

For me it runs faster on my dual boot system. While boot time is slightly longer, (mostly due to services not bothering to use the *new* delayed start-up API), everything else - program launching, context menus, task switching and sleep/hibernataion are MUCH faster than XP. Getting rid of unresponsive programs is also quicker.

What is this "bloat" I keep hearing? What it uses your graphics card's memory to store off screen windows instead of repainting everything every time something changes.. like Mac OS X... oh yes that's very wasteful isn't it!

The only thing I resent about Vista is the need for Anti Virus products. That's where the Mac and Linux users really can boast.

So don't believe the media... oh go on then, believe everything you read and downgrade to XP :) Might as well vote Tory while you're at it too :p

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Silver badge

Bundling problem in Windows

The big problem with the various editions of Windows is that they are all bundled up. Smart systems (Linux is but one) have the kernel separate from the windowing system, separate from the applications. Microsoft (by design) doesn't do this, and we all pay for it. When they want to release something, they have to "do it all", and it has to "work". With so many interrelations there is bound to be some junk that doesn't work as planned, and the more interrelations the worse it gets. Fixes, fixes, and more fixes get stuck on a balloon with zillions of holes, and no matter how many band-aids you add, the holes are still there, leaking like a sieve.

You see, Microsoft built this messy balloon, and now they have to live with it. The problem is that Vista is but ONE result.

As silly as it sounds, Microsoft (and us) might have been better off if they accepted the Anti-trust ruling, and broke up the company. Too late for that!

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@Hardware not capable

First of all, a "cheap" Acer notebook will never perform properly. It will have a low-end chip, little RAM, and probably a slow disk that's not made by a good manufacturer (likely a Hitachi).

Second, a Sempron is not a fast processor and 1GB of RAM is insufficient to properly run Vista. Realistically, that machine should not have been shipped with Vista.

To run Vista (on an AMD notebook), it should have had a Turion processor and 2GB of RAM, and preferably not been made by Acer.

As to your claim that upgrades for laptops are not cheap, actually, when it comes to RAM, they aren't any more expensive these days than for desktops (at least, not in North America at somewhere other than your local big-box store [e.g. Best Buy, Future Shop, etc...]).

In addition, there is one performance eating element of Vista which you can't turn off... Indexing. This combined with memory paging due to the amount of RAM is probably why that machine is failing so hard.

Honestly, this is my biggest grievance is that people can't be bothered to figure out what they need to properly run something, then gripe about it once they buy something underpowered and find that it's nto running it in the manner they expected.

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Flame

@Wolf

Completely agree with you. Why do people want to keep older systems anyway?

On the same train of thought, starting of tomorrow, everybody in Great Britain will drive on the right side of the road. It will make it easier for car makers, because they will finally be able to make only cars with the driver on the left. Everything will be standard, which is of course better.

Speaking of standards, the metric system will now be standard in US. Americans will just have to get used to kilometers, liters, kilograms and Celsius. And forget those dumb "US letter" and "US legal" paper format. From now on, it's the world standard A4 for you.

How about plain realizing that Vista works DIFFERENTLY than XP, and people plain PREFER the way XP works? And that they see NO reason whatsoever to change their habits? And that it will cost MILLIONS to large companies to adapt their IT to Vista, because, yes, the applications they use do not work under Vista, and it is a nightmare to create a new version without having to upgrade every single computer they own?

"From tomorrow, we will stop selling paper. If you want to write on anything, buy our brand new plastic sheet. Only new markers can write on them, if you have pencils and paper in your stock, you can use them until you run out."

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Same old droning...

Just thought I'd read the rest of the comments, and as much as I'd like to defend Vista from the hordes of Linux fans (not that there is anything wrong with Linux I'd like to add) - I can't see anything in the comments that actually point out a legitimate reason as to why Vista is so "bad"....

For such a technically aware audience you don't half put yourself down with meanless comments.

@ AV / Hardware not capable

Um, a sempron? WTF?! I'd point to that being the issue, but If it's more than 2.0Ghz and a gig of RAM i'd guess it work work fine to be honest. Had a AMD Athlon @ 1.8Ghz and 512MB that worked alright as a media centre box. Let me guess... it was OEM....? Do yourself a favor and format the bloody thing. Will run twice as fast. Failing that use MSCONFIG to remove all the nasty startup guff.

@ James

Um, I can't say I have even seen a post on the net about Vista's "DRM" since before it's launch. There are two types of DRM in Vista. One is the same as XP (product activation which is your product code and a one-way checksum. Ohhh - scary!). The other type is the same that's in any HDMI compatible device. Can't say I know anyone who has had problems with it as it's not exactly taken off yet. Although If you really want to stay away from DRM I guess you won't be "renting" any movies, downloading anything from iTunes and will be staying away Blu-Ray as well....?

@ Highlander

I agree with your sentiments - but the Kernel is not the problem. In fact from 2000 upwards the NT kernel has been very, very stable. BSOD is pretty much a thing of the past. Without stats to hand, I'd guess you'll see as many kernel panics on Linux as you would on WinNT. MS really need to get the GUI sorted and add in some more innovation - but the kernel would be the last thing think I'd want to change.

Everyone else - grow up. Vista was bloated 2 years ago when 512Mb RAM and dual core was top of the range. In todays market Vista will run fine of cheap hardware. It's stable, more secure than XP and requires less 3rd party guff to get going. The cost for Business compared to XP Pro is less per $/£ and there's an abundance of drivers for pretty much everything. Poor drivers, promising too much and high hardware spec's were all true at launch. But 2 years later it's a different story.

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Happy

numbers made the excel way

"XP was windows NT 5.1 (as it was what 2k should of been) and server 2003 is NT 5.2. Vista is NT6. They're all NT product numbers really and don't really factor in the 9x line."

Yeah, just like 20 comes after 12 if you dont factor in the all the teens !!!

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