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back to article Law Commissions want to keep UK consumers' refund rights

UK consumers should be able to demand refunds for faulty goods despite attempts by the European Commission to undermine that right, the Law Commission and the Scottish Law Commission have said. The Commissions have been asked by Government to undertake a consultation on consumers' rights when goods are faulty, and they have said …

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Anonymous Coward

"cycle of failed repairs"

RMA'd memory to the Netherlands from the UK cost me £8 P&P. The memory I got in return is also faulty so another £8. In the end it is going to cost me an extra £16 minimum to get working memory that was bought retail for £32.

This is a major brand too, not some noname gash manufacturer.

Even now I'm considering cutting my losses as I have no guarantee that I will get a working product.

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how long that right lasts

Well it depends on how long it SHOULD last.

A car should have, when new, NO DEFECT within 3 years or such defect is fixed FOC. And if it develops a defect within 6 months, it is a defective product and a full refund should be available.

A plastic toy should last a year. If it develops a fault in the first month (plastic is less durable than steel), it is defective.

And so on.

If the manufacturers cannot manage that level then the defect rate is far too high and they should look at their quality assurance for how to do it RIGHT.

This is not rocket science.

If necessary, make the manufacturers/retailers say what full refund on defect system is available and then the cheap people who don't care will buy the more defective cheap version and those who want something that lasts won't and will go for the more expensive but more robust one.

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Gold badge
Flame

It's worse than that.

Having lived in an EU country that's already pretty much in line with what they want, there's a fundamental change in experience that the Law Commisions have completely missed here.

Example: You buy product X, which proves to be faulty. You attempt to return it to the shop you bought it from. The shop's liability ends with: "The manufacturer's service centre for repairs is here, their phone number's here, we've already done our bit by stamping the warranty card, now fuck off."

You *very* rapidly learn to *only* buy products made by a large, reputable manufacturer with a *local* service point and *never* anything made by anyone who doesn't have a large, EU-wide selection of fully-staffed Service Centres. (Anything made in the Far East is an automatic writeoff. It's hard to find an object where its value is not exceeded by the Insured shipping costs with returned POD - which you'll need.....) By preference you want something made by someone based in the EU to be 100% sure of not being fucked.

Anyone else spot the hidden agenda here?

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Silver badge
Dead Vulture

Not confusing at all...

Commission, Commissions

Couldn't you have made the text more confusing ?

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Unhappy

How many retail cross-border transactions are there?

Not many, I should think, compared with the number of retail transactions within each member state.

It sounds like a cheat's charter to me, underpinned by spurious concerns in order to justify the Euro Directive Creating Body's existence.

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Anonymous Coward

As an increasingly irritated UK citizen

I have just one thing to say

SCREW EU

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Stop

Time to fill in that tunnel....

and separate ourselves from the stupidity that is the Euro laws...

so the thinking is that a company does not want to sell across borders because of the different regulations and rights to the consumer makes it confusing to them. So erode our rights to make it more simple for them to sell cross boarder.....

well, if the company cannot take the time to check the laws of the country they want to sell in, or don't agree with the regulations, why would we want them in our market place anyway?

If i buy a MP3 player from a high street shop, get it home and find it wont play mp3's but only a DRM crippled media file, I want to take it back the shops and get a refund.... not a argument.

If i buy a TV from a shop, and it has a scratch on the case, i want to return it for a replacement or a refund, not a argument that "its only a little scratch"

It is my opinion that if i buy something from a shop, I expect it to work out of the box. If it doesn't my faith in the chosen brand is dented to the point I do not want that product any more. If i Buy it now, i want it now, i don't want to wait three weeks for a replacement or a repair...

Yet again the eurotards think they can take over !!!

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Anonymous Coward

Life of a product

The last time I checked the laws, there was a reasonable time for the life of a prodict.

My Tosh laptop went ga-ga after a littel over two years. The screen failed. I argued that I should expect 4 years usage out of it. E-buyer refused completley to recognise anything beyond the manufacturers warantee, despite my quoting the law to them, chapter and verse.

It was a hairs breadth from going to court when I contacted the credit card company and gave them the Toshiba engineers documentation saying that it was a genuine failure. The credit card company came to me with an immeidate settlement against my expected lifetime. The money paid for the repair work and the laptop is still working.

Sellers like e-buyer should be penalised for not even recognising the law. We need more rights in a greedy, money grabbing world, not less.

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Thumb Up

common sense for a change

Nice to see common sense for a change.

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Anonymous Coward

Know your rights, before they change them...

Example: You buy product X, which proves to be faulty. You attempt to return it to the shop you bought it from. The shop's liability ends with: "The manufacturer's service centre for repairs is here, their phone number's here, we've already done our bit by stamping the warranty card, now fuck off."

so long its within 12 months from date of purchase, it is the retailers responsibility to return it to the service center...

if you buy from a trade counter, then it is your responsibility to deal with the manufacturer direct..

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Silver badge

In the UK...

... We have some of the best consumer protection legislation around, for example:

Sale of Goods Act 1979 - Goods must be of Satisfactory Quality, As Advertised and Fit for Purpose. If they are not, it is up to the Retailer to sort out the problem, not the consumer or the manufacturer.

Distance Selling Regulations 2000 - Goods must be delivered within 30 days unless otherwise agreed. Goods must be sold according to the SoGA 1979. The customer has 7 days to examine the goods as long as they're not perishable/ time dependant (eg newspapers) and then return them/ cancel the contract if they change their minds.

Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers 2002 - If a fault appears on an item within 6 months it's up to the Retailer to prove it wasn't present or inherent at the time of purchase, otherwise the consumer can claim refund, repair or replacement at their discretion. After 6 months and up to 6 years (if it's reasonable for the goods to last that long) if the consumer can prove the fault was inherent they can still claim this right.

Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act - If you pay for goods worth between £100 and £30,000 by a Credit Card it makes the Card Company jointly and severally liable for remedying any problems (ie if the Retailer has gone bust, you can still get your money back).

The EU should not be trying to *weaken* these rights, they should be *expanding* the regulations to ensure that everyone in the EU can have them.

PS As well as being a consumer, I'm a retailer as well and I have no problems in giving customers these rights if they buy from me.

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Anonymous Coward

Surely...

they need to be raising the EU laws to the UK norm rather than downgrading the UK to the lowest common denominator.

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Unhappy

Someone please explain

How these things always seem to spiral down the the "lowest common denominator" and never up to protect the consumer. I'm not for bashing the stores or the manufacturers, but when you're selling sh1te and get called on it; man up and do the right thing.

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This post has been deleted by a moderator

Um simple

"The Commissions also expressed concern about a consumer's right to a refund if repairs or replacements have failed but the time within which they qualify for a refund has passed."

Lemon laws. If its not fix with in three times get your money back.

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