Microsoft has agreed to allow Windows 7 customers to downgrade not just to Vista but also to XP. The software firm confirmed it had planned downgrade rights for XP when Windows 7 shipped, which is expected later this year. "Microsoft will be offering an n-2 downgrade option with Windows 7 to help customers plan their migrations …
"Our volume-license customers can always downgrade to any previous version of Windows"
Does that mean that if I buy enough licenses, I can downgrade all the way Windows 3.1?
The instructions said...
"Install Windows 98 or better..." I installed GNU/Linux
Unless I'm wrong then what they're saying is this "We know it's shit and we don't care. We're going to release it anyway and when you find out that it's shit you'll also find that you've just shelled out for a duplicate XP license".
Then when they get the bugs removed (ha ha ha like that's ever happened with MS software) they'll revoke the XP and Vista downgrade licenses and say "Now you have to use Win7 with SP1".
Fuck it. I'm never going back to Winblows. It sucked when I first used it. It sucked through the entire time I had it at home and it sucks when I use it at work. This admission from Redmond that they know their software is no up to the minimum release standards that other companise set themselves is rather telling.
...and if I really feel the need to run any dodgy malware then I'll install Wine.
Perhaps the public perception of the OS following screenshots showing a very similar UI to Vista and media reports of increased DRM plus a dodgy attempt to fix UAC (i.e. internally looking suspiciously like Win 6.1 dressed up as a major release) has finally reached the perception of Microsoft's marketing department...
Although it wouldn't surprise me if once Win 7 is released, most new and upgraded releases of software from MS will state they're only suitable for Vista and higher...
Windows 2000 still rocks
Hey don't knock Windows 2000
I think everyone agrees that MS is "being economical with the truth" when it describes the move from Vista to XP as a "downgrade" (you get a better system, therefore it's an upgrade)
But what is the move from 7 to XP? Up or Down?
Or put another way ...
Microsoft has said: "We do not give a damn what people want. They will have to pay for Windows 7, even if they have no intention of ever using it, and would prefer something cheaper instead. In fact, if they want any Microsoft operating system except Windows 7, they have to pay for the most expensive version of Windows 7 we license. This is because older Microsoft operating systems are far more valuable to customers than the new ones and we need some excuse to say people want Windows 7."
If people swallow this, "Windows 8" require twice as much hardware to run half the speed of W7, but the $1000 version will let you upgrade to XP.
prefer to upgrade to Linux myself
Boy, you do know you are selling some bad stuff if you advertise the ability to take older products instead. Anything to get your money. And, no doubt, all these downgrades count as Windows 7 sales.
Of course you can do the same with Linux. You just do not have to pay a bunch of money.
You can tell when someone is new to the technology field by how they refer to legacy software.
Paris cause Windows 1995 and Windows 1998 Was Hot.
Side thought: Be safer to poke more fun at ME then 95
"Which suggests that OEMs could roll back the OS clock further to Windows 2000 or even Windows 1995"
1: It was called "Windows 95", not "Windows 1995"
2: 95 was not the earliest version of windows. If a volume licensee wanted, they could upgrade to windows 3.0, windows 2, etc, etc.
Of course, you'll have to find suitable media...
Based on the usability and stability of the beta, unless Microsoft find a way to epic fail between now and launch-day, I'm looking forward to letting customers loose on it, after the traditional launch + six months for any major show-stoppers to be found.
Sounds a good way of keeping reasonable people happy - Give them a choice of XP, Vista or 7, and let them upgrade at their own pace. And as a bonus, any who pick vista can be added to the watch list, as clearly they're some issues there...
*Wonders if he can go through to Windows 7 stable launch with only the 3 vista PC's he's shipped in the last two years*
I seriously doubt...
... that anyone who's used Windows 7, even in its current beta form, will want to downgrade to XP - it's shaping up to be a very good OS.
Don't joke about 3.1
Don't joke about 3.1
I remember using it happily for support, programming in Progress 4GL and connecting to all types of Unix boxes and it worked fine.
On top of that - the whole C: drive could be backed up to a network or another HDD and it could then be restored to a new drive which had been formatted as bootable. (Especially useful when you'd been on holiday and your boss had trashed your machine whilst you were away!)
If you only needed to run dos apps then you could and we had whole bakeries running on a 4GL application. Dosshell was loved by many of our clients as it was so easy and simple to use.
Also, as all configuration was in .ini files you could relatively easily keep a close track of them and we had tools which kept snapshots and so we could easily see what installing an application had done and revert chages if needed.
Then came Win95 and the dreaded registry - now we had crashing, and bizarre problems and our terminal apps stopped working and we're were dragged into the age of - use it for a bit, it will fail over time in all kinds of infuriating ways, then reinstall.
The only shame is that now due to hardware prices the reinstall has turned into 'buy another' and so MS gain even more money as a reward for failure.
they won't do it
They don't even do it now for Vista. I have tried several times to get Microsoft to give me the XP code for proper activation after downgrading and they WON'T do it. They offered to do it for a fee of $60.00 once. Here's what Microsoft says they WILL do (but won't).
"When an end user is using their downgrade
rights offered under the License Terms in
Windows Vista Business and Ultimate versions
and they use both Windows XP media and a
product key that was previously activated, they
will be unable to activate on-line over the
Internet, due to the hardware conﬁguration
change when installing on the Vista system. In
these cases the end user will be prompted to
call the Activation Support Line and explain
their circumstances to the Customer Service
Representative. Once it is determined that the
end user has a valid Vista Business or Ultimate
license, the Customer Service Representative will
help them activate their software."
Here's the full pdf of what Microsoft says your downgrade rights are (but they ignore it).
To Author: Please use correct terminology
Microsoft's response to allegations that Vista sucks has been to try and redefine English rather than actually fix the software.
The word "Upgrade" actually means a move that improves the general situation, such as adding extra functionality or usability. It absolutely does NOT, and never has meant just a move to something more recent regardless how bad it is.
Since XP, Microsoft have added many artificial limitations to Windows to prevent the user from accessing the hardware features of their own PC. Extra limitations like DRM and other "in your face" annoyances like UAC prevent the user from doing things that can actually be done straightforwardly in XP.
Consequently, moving TO Vista or Windows 7 FROM XP is clearly and logically a DOWNGRADE.
Moving FROM Vista/Windows 7 To XP is consequently an UPGRADE.
In future please use this correct terminology in all your articles.
Not actually a joke,
Yes you can.. If you have a Volume License MSDN + OS.. You can downgrade to whatever you wish.
Your joke wasn't funny enough.
Maybe. After all, MS did just finally stop selling Windows 3.1 a few months ago as I recall...
Re-invent the wheel
Windows 1, 2 & 3 were rubbish! Windows 95 was almost OK. XP is OK. The only reason M$ are changing the O/S is to make more money. At work (BT) there is a PC that has been turned on since 1993 & still running! My brand new (BT) laptop has a Vista logo on the top but only boot's to XP. So even BT feels that Vista is nasty!
OK, HP might be able to offer a sidegrade to XP, but what about the rest of us? Will they ship XP on the install disk and allow small system builders or do-it-yourselfers to sidegrade?
It's not much of a 'right' if you don't have the distribution media.
for a price
A few months ago Dell was offering the downgrade option for $100 MORE than a straight Vista installation. The gimmick is "upgrade at your own pace". and they sold the machine with XP installed, but included a Vista upgrade disc, that you could "install when you are ready"?!
I imagine the Windows 7 downgrade offer will work similarly.
Windows 7 is so great...
... that our customer base is demanding to down grade to our OS from 7 YEARS AGO. Well done M$, with product release diagrams like this http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/XP-Editions.svg/470px-XP-Editions.svg.png
it's hardly a surprise you're fucked.
Lets hope Windows 7 is good enough that downgrading won't be required. I'm not holding my breath.
Go the whole hog!
Go right back to Windows 3 + DOS or that Xerox OS they nicked it from :D
Damn. You beat me to it.
This is all well and good but...
My acer 8300s crash when I insert an XP Pro dvd.
you are missing the best point
you are missing the best point... windows 7 ULTIMATE or PRO. so you will need to fork out for the most expensive version of windows 7 to get downgrade rights to what will then be an obsolete OS.
all you netbookers are stuffed then
Marketing Gone Mad
What a sales pitch! "We have this new and improved O/S called Windows 7. You really should buy it. In fact we won't allow you to buy anything else. But if after you've bought it you prefer to go back to XP we'll allow you to do that." And I wonder how much the downgrade will cost me?
Mine's the straight-jacket.
I thought that
OEM stuff was supported by OEMs and direct, full versions were supported by MS?
So, OEM OS & OEM Office & OEM software = supported by OEM?
If above interpretation is true well, its up to the OEM really.
Nothing new here
Service Packs have always had an uninstall option, and XP is the (true) n-1 version. Though, as with any SP, you have to wonder who would want to unwind the bug fixes and return to the crawling horror.
Mainstream suppotr for XP expires?
I am going to have to either fork out for a Doze Vista 7 license and upgrade this thing soon (I wonder if the hardware is even compatible?) or go Linux. Which means no printer*, no VPN**, no idea if my recorded movies will still play and no idea if Myth is even half as good as Media Center.
* I could buy a new one I guess, but I don't have £200+ spare and even then it would be a shitty black and white job, no scanner etc as Linux seems to have terrible printer support. Or am I wrong?
** Work's VPN software is not Linux compatible. Well OK, they'll support RedHat 7 or something (thank you CheckPoint, you gits)
Microsoft sure know
how to give confidence to buyers of their new product -
Buy Windows 7, best feature - you can delete it and install our discontinued OS.
Why thank you Mr Ballmer, please have my hundred and fifty dollars/pounds.
Not for me
Think I'll be upgrading to SuSE 11.
I just got my first Windows XP machine last week, and they're discontinuing it next week?! Back to Linux all round for me then.
Seriously, why don't they just switch to free support for the 'old, boring' version when they introduce the trivial respray to sell to the morons? Some people are trying to do some work here.
Why stop at 3.1?
2000... 95... 3.1... why not take the opportunity to downgrade to the original Windows 1.0? Surely someone at MS has it lying around somewhere?
can this really be a computer vendor (finally !!!) listening to their customers needs and not just enforcing version churn.... heh this might catch on....
I'm sure it was called "Windows Nineteen-Ninety-Five", or something...
Or better yet...
...just ditch Mafia$oft altogether and use Ubuntu.
Bloody M$, they couldn't design an OS if their life depended on it.
Paris, because she can Operate my System any day of the week.
Everyone go give your money to MS, let me get some work done
I actually got to play with a windows 2.0 machine once. Made everything else from them look stable by comparison.
Gotta admit i'm now a die hard linux fan. Why? The one thing that will never work with windows, "AUTOMATION".
Do something once and dump your history. Next time you'll have 1/2 of it scripted up. After doing a task 4-5 times you should have it well automated. MS+IBM home of the GUI (great useless inconvenience)
It's a 7/Vista story, let's all say how much we hate it!
Have any of the "I hate Vista" people ever actually USED a legitimate copy of Vista for any length of time? UAC only comes up when you're installing an app (oh noes, one more click!!!), runs far more stably than XP ever did (I've never had Vista crash) and, being a techy sort of guy, I do have sufficiently capable hardware to run the damn thing in the first place.
I wonder how many people who slate Vista have derived their entire experience from a downloaded beta or pirate copy?
Keep your XP, I UPgraded to Vista a couple of years ago now. :)
Windows Genuine Advantage?
So when the cracked, fully patched pirate versions of XP appear (for much less than the cost of a Vista license) what function does WGA have then? Discuss.
Correct me if I am wrong but....
Volume licence customers with active SA (cringe) have always had the ability to downgrade to previous versions along the product path, even NT 3.51 if your heart desires. I'm just slightly surprised Microsoft haven't decided to enforce customers in the OEM channel to take out SA so they could still run XP - they are tw@ts after all.
Paris because she knows how to stiff people for money
Did you try the Vista beta? I did. It seemed a darn site better than the RTM version. And UAC isn't "just one more click during installation" is it. It is several extra clicks when doing simple system tasks on a daily basis. UAC also locks the desktop so you have to clear it AND new windows STILL steal focus. Admit it, it's a shower of shit.
Linux fan asking about printers, if it's Apple compatible it'll probably work on linux as apple. Urrently own CUPS. Ignore the shills on here! Check teh interwebs. (iPhone wants to change shills to shits - now tell me it's a rubbish phone!)
Three cheers for Win2k
As someone who has the benefit of using both Windows 2000 and XP side by side since many years I have to tell you: 5.0 is STILL the BEST Microsoft OS. Lean, stable and fast with none of the disgusting "eye-candy" or frustrating "hand holding" of 5.1. I realise I risk being ridiculed and flamed to a crisp for this but there you have it - and I'm not even going to comment on Vista.
Upgrade to Snow Leopard...
....as i'm sure many will!
That said, the Win 7 Beta has actually impressed me a fair bit.... so maybe they'll be ok.
No need to fear ridicule.... I'll agree... 2000 was the peak. They got it right at that point. Downhill ever since with all their attempts to copy everyone else's designs.
@Why stop at 3.1?
I'm pretty sure I've still got my Windows/386 disks somewhere. 5.25" so can't read them on anything nowadsys.
"I seriously doubt that anyone who's used Windows 7, even in its current beta form, will want to downgrade to XP - it's shaping up to be a very good OS."
Depends on where it is deployed and what "goodies" are going to remain on the final release version. W7 is supposed to be slimmer than Vista, which is to the good, but one of the biggest reasons for hanging on to XP is that Vista was too bloated and power hungry to sit on the lower spec machines such as netbooks. If V7 can sit on these machines with no problem in whatever form is likely to be released for the purpose, then XP may start to die off.
As for how it is shaping up, my concern is more along the lines of what the marketing plebes will insist on shoving into it. Left to its own devices, W7 does appear to be an improvement on Vista, though I'm not convinced that it beats XP as yet. And, lest we forget, we still have this stupid arrangement of so many release versions to bug the crap out of everyone.
What shocks me is how so many of you can slate a product that isn't even finished yet. I've been running Windows7 on my laptop since Christmas, so far it looks promising. Generally the feedback from other people has been good.
To those of you that bitch about Vista being slower, well of course it is, but if you run Vista on decent hardware in 7years time you won't have anything to complain about. When Windows XP arrived it run well on anything from 800mhz and 64MB RAM and above. People bitched at the time because it was slow on their 400Mhz and 32MB machines. Now 2-3Ghz Dual Core and 2GB RAM is common.
I think we call it progress in the IT Industry. Hardware gets faster, so the software takes advantage of it.
If we only cared about speed then the command line OS would still rule.