As a data centre technicain I have constantly been asking us to move away from Centos and towards Debian/Ubuntu.

This could never happen to Debian (possibly even less likely with Ubuntu), my reasons for this are:-

- RPM is a bag of shite - dependency errors are common using standard yum repos (suse is o.k with smart)

- Centos is too old technology - I.e ancient PHP/MySQL/HTTP

- the kernel is 2.6.18 which is missing many great features - i.e tickless - the accountancy modules that allow iotop to run - a lot of newer hardware is not supported - It sort of feels like linux did 1/2 a decade ago...

- The main web server control panel (Plesk) often has issues updating to the next version (debian based system are usually flawless)

- They alway take longer than other distros to ship security fixes - I know they have to wait for RH enterprise to issues theirs first..

- I do not like clones....

If trademark is an issue a quick switch to ScentOS, PennyOS, 2CentsOS, NickelOS, DimeOS, 2bitOS, ad infinitum.

The WHOLE idea of a distro like RHEL/CentOS is stability and especially in Production Environments. The 2.6.18 kernel is fine for the majority of Server Environments. Companies like Oracle and IBM would certify their software on RHEL and other companies find that it all works fine on CentOS whereas it may not of say 2.6.30.

By all means switch to Debian but IMHO Ubuntu ships with far too many core bugs to be suitable for a Server environment apart from the LTS version but I still don't get the core stability with LTS that I do with RHEL/CentOS and even SLES.

I do agree with you about the timeliness of security patches and hopefully one outcome of this debacle would be extra volunteers to help with the release of fixes.

TUX Naturally

OK, a bit black helicoptery, but could CENTOS have been bankrolled/ supported through several intermediaries by someone who wanted redhat down the toilet?

If the market/ economic conditions changed, now might be a reasonable time to pull the plug.

A lot of people want stability. Stability that lasts for years. RHEL (and CentOS) give you seven years of platform stability for each major release. Sometimes that means you will have "old" kernels or not-quite-bleeding-edge PHP by default but for a lot of people that doesn't matter - as long as they get bug-fixes they *like* knowing that the versions don't change for years on end.

If you have a project that depends on particular library/API/versions that might last five years or more it's an excellent choice. If you want more rapid turnover then there's Ubuntu or the like.

A lot of commercial (closed-source) packages are also built against RHEL versions (sometimes with SLES) and if you don't use them you're on your own. The application died after running a three-month long simulation and you lost everything? Too bad - at least you've got the latest compiz & gcc to play with...

I'm not anti-debian or anything - I happily run RHEL&clones alongside SuSE, debian, Ubuntu (and Solaris, AIX, IRIX..). Different OS's for different cases.

I love it. Nobody knows WHAT happened to the guy, but all these creeps are assuming, with no information whatsoever, that he's doing some kind of weirdo embezzling thing.

It's all ridiculous. Maybe the poor guy just fell down his basement stairs. How about actually LOOKING for him, instead of trying his mobile phone and email once or twice and freaking out like a bunch of pansy bed-wetters?

People are idiots. With friends like these, who'd need an enema?

Respectfully-ish, you're talking a load of shite.

I'll preface this by pointing out that I use Ubuntu for desktops and my home server and work with Debian daily, I'm a big fan of both distros.

- RPM is a bag of shite - dependency errors are common using standard yum repos (suse is o.k with smart)

Dependency errors have nothing to do with the package format or package manager, they're to do with people not managing the dependencies properly.

We use CentOS for our hosting servers and have no dependency problems that we wouldn't have trying to solve the same requirements on Debian (namely requiring newer packages than the OS revision we're using supports and not wanting to upgrade the entire OS for certain specific reasons).

- Centos is too old technology - I.e ancient PHP/MySQL/HTTP

Think of a CentOS or RHEL release as being equivalent to Debian stable. Debian stable has far older packages toward the end of a release lifecycle than Redhat. However this is generally fine on both platforms as they backport security fixes.

- the kernel is 2.6.18 which is missing many great features - i.e tickless - the accountancy modules that allow iotop to run - a lot of newer hardware is not supported - It sort of feels like linux did 1/2 a decade ago...

You're aware this is a server OS right?

- The main web server control panel (Plesk) often has issues updating to the next version (debian based system are usually flawless)

If you're using Plesk you're doing it wrong.

- They alway take longer than other distros to ship security fixes - I know they have to wait for RH enterprise to issues theirs first..

That's just wrong.

- I do not like clones....

Why? It's just a recompile, it's the same code.

.. but was also a slightly odd chap.

Seems that he, or should I say, someone from his Plusnet internet connection visited our site just the other day with the hostname 'uklinux.****.***'

UK Linux; a company that seems to offer hosting and other goodies(!) based in Stockport with Lance Davis as the Admin/Tech and Registrant.

Wonder if all that money has caught up with him. Completely speculative of course.

Single point of failure... Business Continuity Plan...?

I am aware that the length of support time that Centos has (7 years) is what the enterprise wants, this is why it is so popular..

My reasons for disliking it are from an admin angle - It is likely that the Plesk RPM's cause a lot of issues, but for example today (30 July) - our DNS server running latest Centos (just raw centos on extra repos of any sort) was unable to update the important bind update as yum was completely broken - I had to rebuild rpmDB, clean the yum cache and then yum update (this never happens on debian distros) - The ability to upgrade to the next version in centos (i.e 4 series to 5 series) is never as simple as a deb based distro.

Re : kernel 2.6.18 - I am fully aware is it mainly used for servers my point that it is missing some modules that you need to run some really useful admin tools - i.e iotop - Iotop is very useful on a server as you can see which users are using the most disk usage. Also PHP 5.1.6 is good to no one..

(btw I know I can use systemimager to install an image of centos with the latest kernel - in fact we need to to get certain hardware to run as 2.6.18 doesn't have the drivers...)

Re : Plesk - yes I know I hate it so much - luckily the boss want us to look into a replacement !!

Just my options on the matter,,..

Centos isn't going to die anyway - maybe fork .

Perhaps the guy's just on holiday / got swine flu....

http://www.oracle.com/technologies/linux/index.html

Isn't Oracles unbreakable Linux also a Redhat Enterprise clone that is free of charge ?

...just to save the yearly maintenance fee to Red Hat?

No, really, I want to know.

The webhosting community NEEDS CentOS. WHM/Cpanel requires it to run and all clean builds of it include CentOS as the core underlying OS unless you are intending to go the Red Hat / FreeBSD route - neither of which we would.

We have a VPS Cloud running Centos with Whm/cpanel on it and wouldnt want to change that setup. WHM takes the hassle out of setting up a web server and provides great functionality not only to me as a sys admin but also to my clients.

I think whatever happens the project will be ok as so many people rely on it

Some of us home enthusiasts can't afford the support fee for Red Hat but would still like the opportunity to practice and learn on it at home, as RH is standard in many linux shops. CentOS is great for this... maybe not so great if you're a debian zealot though :-)

....Windows.

Well, gives you something else to flame about instead of infightiing like a bunch of twats.....

The Oracle Unbreakable Linux program provides free downloads, but is not, of itself, free and there isn't a free update service like the one that CentOS provides -- you have to pay to get updates although, just like anyone else, you can download and compile the source rpms yourself.

I can't see CentOS dying. It may get resurrected, phoenix-like, if the present problem doesn't get resolved but it won't die. Too many people depend are willing to invest the effort to keep the rebuild going and too many people have come to rely on a low-cost enterprise linux, me included.

If CentOS does go completely I wouldn't be at all surprised if someone like Oracle (or maybe actually Red Hat) provide a cheap updates-only service. But it would have to be very cheap: somewhere around $10 a year.

I stopped using CentOS, a great RHEL clone, instead I use Oracle's rip-off, sorry clone of RHEL instread, Oracle Enterprise Linux 5. Might be sponsered by a nasty corp but at least they won't just drop support 'cos of missing developer.

It's more likely that he's been disappeared by the FBI, at the bequest of the mayor of Tuttle City.

I was a customer of UKLinux up until late last year when it proved nigh on impossible to get hold of anyone there to get a domain renewal sorted - no one answering repeated mails or calls. I'd used them for a few years and never had a problem with them before and have wondered since whether anyone else had experienced similar problems - seems so. I wonder if they have any customer's left?

From http://www.centos.org

The CentOS Development team had a routine meeting today with Lance Davis in attendance. During the meeting a majority of issues were resolved immediately and a working agreement was reached with deadlines for remaining unresolved issues. There should be no impact to any CentOS users going forward.

The CentOS project is now in control of the CentOS.org and CentOS.info domains and owns all trademarks, materials, and artwork in the CentOS distributions.

We look forward to working with Lance to quickly complete all the agreed upon issues.

More information will follow soon.

Last Update: August 1, 2009 04:34 UTC by Donavan Nelson

it's bigger than this guy, or the other guys, or debian/ubuntu etc.

it's about trusting your platform, trusting the process, trusting the organisation to be bigger than boyish egos

this smells a bit like RoR