Italians threaten suit over Windows pre-install

They have good cause to sue Microsoft

Last time I checked, Microsoft would not allow an OEM (that's right: would not ALLOW) to sell a computer without OS. They say this is to block piracy.

That's why DELL sells computers (or, at least, used to sell) with Dr. DOS. They don't sell a computer without an OS - if they did, Microsoft would up the Windows price to a point they would be out of business.

No, i'm not making it up. Look the famous anti truste case. One of the points was just it: Microsoft forcing OEMs to sell computers with an OS.

At given point it would even charge one Windows license for each machine sold - even with Linux installed.

So, I say: good news. It's high time the consumer should have the chance to buy a machine without OS.

The manufacturers...

...are rarely to blame. Microsoft, back in the early 1990s, famously managed to browbeat many of them into a contract allowing them to sell Windows pre-installed rather "cheaply" per copy... only the contract states that they have to pay Microsoft per sold example, whether Windows is installed on the machine sold or not. Only few companies have since managed to untangle themselves form these terms (Dell, Lenovo). A similar lawsuit by an individual in France, btw, has been successful; Microsoft had to refund the person the full cost of an XP license after the user had refused to agree to the EULA upon first use of the computer.

the problem is . . .

MS force the sellers to bundle an OS, but it is currently also in the sellers interest anyway. Unbundling would mean transparency, honesty and flexibility for users, which MS certainly don't want.

Good luck to the lawyers, because they will be the winners here.

Sir

you are a troll and i request my 5 pounds.

Oh no not that discussion again

The OEM-EULA clearly states that if you do not accept the license, you are entitled to a refund.

Do this, as I have done. In a store, point to a laptop and say you want it sans OS. They'll say it's impossible to buy it without an OS. Yet, the OEM-EULA clearly states that you are entitled to a refund if you do not accept the terms*). The salesperson will then point to the manufacturer.

Contact the manufacturer about their OS refund policy. I've done this with most manufacturers once when I was in a bad mood ;-) Most manufacturers have no such policy. They point their finger straight to Redmond. Some however do have such policy, Acer comes to mind, but they ask money to remove the OS, you have to deliver the machine to the workshop and pick it up again too.

Which, technically, is all not necessary as you can overwrite the OS if you don't accept the EULA. Remember, you do not pay for the bits that are together knows as Windows. You pay for a license to use the software.

So the point is not that they should offer PC's and laptops without an OS, which would require separate manufacturing and distribution channels, but just a clear method of refusing the EULA and get your refund. And as it's Redmonds software, and Redmonds licenses and Redmonds policies, the right company to take to court is Microsoft.

What's more, by buying the laptop (money exchanging hands and all that) you implicitly agree with the terms of the purchase. But after powering the laptop on for the first time, you are greeted with the OEM-EULA, and the question of whether you accept the Windows license terms or not ((Note it defaults to 'no')). This means you have the option to refuse the license, after the purchase of the machine. And, are per terms entitled to a refund.

---

*) Musing a little further on this. A popular adage of many people is 'I believe it when I see it'.

Why then, can people not understand the 'refund section' in the OEM-EULA? They don't believe it even though they can see it. Is there not a student of Psychology that can research this fallacy?

PC Use

Hmmm. Do you know, when I were a lad I had to take TWO driving tests. I had to take one before I were allowed on t' road on a motorbike without 'L' plates, and bugger me if I didn't have to go through the whole bloody stitherum again before they would let me do t' same in a car.

Now, considering as 'ow 99.9% of botnet computers are belongin to feckin clueless Micro$oft Windose users, dosna tha all reckon that it might be time for ALL PC users to pass some sort of test BEFORE they are allowed on the Internet??

Tha' knows!

Mine's the one wi t' pit pony tied to it, tha' knows

All the AC's are out supporting MS today

How many PCs are there around? Lots - I have quite a few myself. I'm too damn lazy to fight for my refunds, so instead I feel no qualms whatsoever if I feel the need to copy some MS crap software because some dipstick has sent me something in a proprietary format.

1% of a lot of machines is a lot of money in windows licenses.

Agree

Why stop there! Sue Asus for making motherboards that only accept single type of RAM and make them include slots for all available memory types to date... How dare they limit our choices!

P.S. I'd pay to see a mobo with DIMM, MicroDIMM, SODIMM, RAMBUS, SD, DDR, DDR2, DDR3 slots, 4 of each :D

Choice exists in desktops, not laptops

>"If people want options, they should build their own or have a custom PC built for them. Buy off the shelf and you're limited to what's on offer - it's not as if there's no alternative."

A valid point for desktop PC:s (I have always done so for the machines I buy, the latest is based on an Asus barebone), but not laptops, where it is impossible, not just hard, to buy a good laptop (not netbook) without paying the Windows tax.

Tiers are for...

If you actually shop online for a computer based on hardware (such as amd) you'll find plenty of high-end boxes can be shipped simply with ms-dos or other options which allow you to install anything you want. At least in the US. I'm not sure about Europe, but there must be other options.

Maybe you should count Mac's?

OK, look, we get it (almost) everyone on here hates Microsoft (even though without them most people on here wouldnt have jobs supporting the Lusers) but as has already been stated, Microsoft have NEVER sold a PC with Windows pre-installed have they?

Many, many computer manufacturers have sold PC's with windows pre-installed, some have given refunds if people have applied for them, some havent but that isn't Microsoft's fault is it? (unless you are in full tinfoil hat mode)

As for the mac, I dont think you would have ANY chance of buying a Mac and asking for a refund of the cost of the OS (OK, Apple arent a convicted monopoly etc, etc)

Not in Europe

Dell, Lenovo, Asus etc might have a small Linux offering in the US, but not in Europe.

In Europe, all you can do at best is build yourself or have a local store build it for you.

These "white" boxes are your only option.

That option doesn't exist at all for laptops. Even in the netbook range, there are hardly any Linux versions to be found.

The fact is that true competition like the competition taking place among the CPU, Video and RAM producers can not even take since Microsoft is forcing vendors to ship with Windows.

There are plenty of choices among vendors with respect to any hardware aspect. With the operating system, your have no choice but to pick Microsoft.

What you are left with is a clear case of a monopoly and I say it's about time someone tried to do something about it. It hurts competition and it's bad for Linux and Windows users alike. I mean €199,99 for a Windows 7 Home Premium license? Give me a break! That would never fly if there was any real competition going on.

Who's this?

It's Iggle Piggle! What's that, Iggle Piggle? You want to have fun with analogies today? Iggle Piggle is like a car with no brakes: blue.