Windows 8 fondleslabs: Microsoft tip-toes through PC-makers' disaster 2012 should be a landmark year for Microsoft. It will be the year 2011 should have been. The reason is simple: the company’s play to take on tablet computing should finally hit the road. Windows 8 will be delivered with an interface that liberates Microsoft’s operating system from the desktop prison of mouse and keyboard and …
A bit like every other OS on the market then. It's just that with Windows I know when to expect updates, not to just expect them to turn up some time.
Hardly a week goes by without a large amount of updates for RHEL/Fedora/Ubuntu/Suse/etc sometimes it's one or two, other times it's thirty odd, all on different days. If you pay attention to the activity in unstable releases, you may get an idea of when they'll turn up, but it'd be a hell of a task. I'm also waiting for a fix to GCC to turn up that's going to make my Arduino dev environment work again, it's been nearly two months since the first fix was in the unstables.
The challenge Microsoft faces is two fold- "What can I do with it", and "What am I willing to pay for it. The basic functions of web browsing and e-mail must work flawlessly. Social networking must work flawlessly. There need to be entertainment, business, and content apps available. But what will really determine the uptake is price. If Microsoft prices their Tablets at or above Apple, they will fail, no matter what whiz bang hardware is present. Android and WebOS have already proven that few people are willing to pay for an iPad priced device. If they hit the sweet spot with a WiFi $399, they might have a chance, but if they make the same blunder that the Xoom and others made by starting with a 3G or 4G Tablet, they will fail. No one wants to pay for two data plans, in this global economy. So Microsoft needs to keep Balmer uninvolved in the decision and they might have some hope. Release date is key too, because everyone is waiting to see what Apple will do next. If Apple releases a 7" iPad at the $399 price point, everyone else is toast.
I want to pay for two data plans. A decade or more ago when Sun were advertising "the network is the computer" they got slated for it, but they were right - they were just a few years ahead of their time. A computing device without always-on connectivity - which means wifi when available, 3G/EDGE/GPRS the rest of the time - is not fit for purpose these days. I *really* regret being a cheapskate and buying the Wifi-only version of the iPad.
I have a phone with a data plan, and I can use it as a personal wifi hotspot that lets my laptop, iPod touch and iPad connect when I am away from home. I also have a couple of battery powered chargers that deal with the large amount of power the wifi hotspot sucks out of the phone.
The only reason I went for the 3G kindle is because it doesn't have any ongoing costs to use the 3G network.
This post talks about WinRT more or less requiring Silverlight / WPF / .NET
The whole point of WinRT is that it doesn't, it opens up to many more developers. You can write Metro-themed HTML + Javascript apps, or C++ apps, and they'll be using the same WinRT layout engine.
On the contrary, it makes the point that developers are pretty pissed that their investments in .NET and Silverlight are looking bad right now because everything is moving to WinRT and an updated COM. Speaking as one such, why should I trust that WinRT will survive as a long term platform?
Developers that are pissed that technology changes shouldn't be developing.
Just as assembly programmers resented C
C programmers to C++
Basic to VB
VB to .Net and thence c#
None of these technologies have died out, it's just that Markets have expanded and contracted to suit the needs of a market place.
If you expect to make a killer living doing one language your whole life then you are in for disappointment.
I personally love learning new languages and technologies, currently I make a living in the .Net space but more and more of my time is now spent with Javascript and HTML5. To not expect OS vendors to move with these times and provide platforms and tooling for newer technologies is a farce.
Personally, I would be more concerned if I were an Objective C dev at the moment, at least I have a decent sized server side install base to rely on for putting food on the table.
"Windows 8 also ends Microsoft’s decades-old history of x86 monogamy by going with ARM"
"Windows NT 3.1 was released for Intel x86 PC compatible, DEC Alpha, and ARC-compliant MIPS platforms. Windows NT 3.51 added support for the PowerPC processor in 1995, specifically PReP-compliant systems such as the IBM Power Series desktops/laptops and Motorola PowerStack series..." (Windows NT Wikipedia page)
Windows NT 4.0 ran on DEC Alpha as well as Intel.
Various people also ported NT to Sparc and Clipper though these weren't released.
there will be shed loads of discounted goods with the same 'windows capabilities'* in the sales and the after sales and the easter sales....
'windows capabilities' - the lack of ability to run the office software you think you need - it wont be on your windows slab and it wont be on the just as capable but 1/.2 the price one either.
Ummm... why won't office be on it? Its on my wifes WP7 (in a cut down but very useable format) and i've also got office capable apps on my Galaxy S2.
So, why do you think it won't be on Windows 8 tablets?
p.s. and I do use it on my phone, very handy actually when I'm not at my pc and I need to check asset registry's etc (Excel mainly) or reading attachments emailed to me (word docs).
...If I don't pay too much attention to all you comments analysts who I remember did so well prophesying the failure of the IPad. As we all know that bombed "SOOO" spectacularly just like you all said.
An awful lot of people have been waiting to see what else comes up in tablets since neither the apple nor the kindle fill their needs. Maybe this is it. Maybe it isn't. Wont know, will we, until there is something to actually look at and touch. Whatever happened to that old excitement at the prospects of something new and/or different in tech to fiddle with?
Personally a windows tablet appeals more to me than an iOS or an Android ever did. Bugger batter life (though isnt that more to do with the processors being used than anything else?), and weight and double bugger thinness; who cares? My tablet would never leave the couch or the bedroom and books will be read on a nice 6" eink reader. Course, that still doesn't mean I'll get one. I'm still unsure why I would actually need one in the first place.
"The stark truth is, you don't, I don't and nor does anyone else. I don't have a slab myself yet, but to gauge from those I know who do, this is purely about "want" and nothing to do with "need"."
While your statement might well be true, whether people "need" to spend their money or merely "want" to spend their money is irrelevant. in the final analysis, only the quantity of money spent matters.
I have been a loyal Windows user for 15 years now. I love Windows 7. However, for the first time Microsoft is making me want to abandon Windows altogether.
By sidelining the mainstream Windows user with this tablet fad (which hopefully will die off soon as the iPad Reality Distortion Field dies out), and forcing the ugly, inconsistent and pointless extra "Metro" user interface upon users and telling them that the desktop is merely "legacy", Microsoft has completely lost the plot. It's nothing other than Microsoft trying to use its dominant position in the PC market to bully its way into the phone market.
2012 and Windows 8 will be the notable milestone marking the start of the decline of the Windows dominance. The only question is which Linux distro to move to? I would like it as Windows 7-like as possible -- I assume that means that I should be going for something with KDE?
(Yes, I know, very bad form to post based on actual experience rather than wishes and biases, but there you go....)
I should point out the Microsoft are covering all bases, giving Windows 8 both Metro and "classic" Windows 7-style interfaces, so you can use whichever one is most relevant to your needs.
I think this introduces some interesting new possibilities, with a common environment across desktop, laptop, tablet, and phone, but it's too early yet to know how it will play out.
One thing I have learnt over my thirty years in this industry, however - never write off Microsoft. They are past masters at playing the long game, and many times they have appeared to b terminally lagging behind the competition, only to come out with products that proved that whilst slow, they were also methodical and careful in their development.
GJC
windows is windows is windows ... same old warmed-over crap microsoft has always been peddling. They'll claim they won the market when they outsell Apple and Google but only because they'll be counting every laptop and desktop as a customer "won" against Apple and Google.
Android slabs are here, and the inexpensive ones are coming soon. Android's app market dwarfs Microsoft's, and that's what matters.
Microsoft will continue to be an also-ran in mobile.
Yes, this is Microsoft. Microsoft who already ship millions of Windows products. However they are for the PC, not the mobile. The platform is too different for them to just say follow us. Office on a mobile device - you got to be joking. Viewers yes, full Office no way.
The mobile market is already set up and running with Apple and Google. Microsoft are late to the party. As to whether they can join the party time will tell. I suspect that they are too late and like previous tablet and phone attempts will flounder. They will need a USP different from Apple (cool) and Google (cheap).
Companies always get big. They then get sluggish and think that they can control the market via sheer size and force. Then along comes some sneaky new company who whips the carpet from under the large company's feet before they know what's happening (Apple). And with the door open, other companies attempt to stick their foot in the door (Google). Because Microsoft are big it takes them time to react, like a oil tanker changing direction.
it's not that it's Microsoft. That's unimportant, just as it was unimportant when Macromedia Flash became Adobe Flash. What's important is that it's a Windows version. As such, it'll sell. By the ocean-load. Regardless of quality.
I notice my OP has been yanked "by a moderator". I can only assume there's a moderator who has wet dreams about MS going broke.
If they manufacturers release their Win8 tablets and try to price them to compete with iPads they will fail. They have tried this with their Android tablets and it didn't work. If people want to buy premium they will buy an ipad not an Ipad wannabe for the same price.
I'm still not sure why anyone buys any tablets to be honest, i want something with a proper keyboard not a touch screen
I own a Windows 7 fondleslab. It's ok as a netbook (if a bit slow) when you attach a keyboard and mouse. But as a tablet, it blows. In so many ways, Microsoft has proven with Windows 7 Tablet Edition that they have a fundamental misunderstanding of how to design a touch gui.
Nothing I've seen so far has made me think Windows 8 will be enough better to bother with. If I could load Android on the device, I would, but for now it's just a rather inconvenient web appliance.
and it's become indispensable. I've found that Windows 7 works beautifully as a Touch GUI.
Perhaps you'd care to explain -exactly- what you think is wrong with Windows 7 as a touch GUI. Because I've been using it as such for over a year with no problems whatsoever. Is it because you can't "swipe" or do all that stupidly complex "finger gesture" crap that Android et al requires?
To me, I like how it simply interprets a tap on the screen as a mouse click and dragging your finger across the screen functions perfectly as a click-drag. I also have an Android phone and I've already come to loathe having to "swipe" my finger across the screen (sometimes several times) to answer a bloody phone call. Why can't I just "tap" like in Windows 7.
Sometimes it seems to me like the whole world has gone stark raving mad over this finger-twisting touch-tablet business and I'm the only sane one left!
Um, er, eh?
Except for all those PocketPc devices of the early noughties which ran WindowsCE / Mobile on ARM processors.
I had a Toshiba e570 and a Dell Axim X51v. They were fun at the time, but PalmOS was a better system (I also had a Palm IIIe and a T2 which was the best of them). I think I still have all of those, in boxes, waiting for them to become highly sought-after collectors items.
Funny how things change, eh? Palm who?
Enterprise
Companies - particularly SME's - are CRYING out for a decent tablet that's suitable for enterprise use. What I mean by that is you can manage it using existing infrastructure.
Having Windows based devices in more form-factors will be a boom for the network admins. Tweak the odd GPO here and there and volia - let's buy 50 of them.
iPads and Android are not enterprise ready without 3rd party software. Microsoft already have the management infrastructure in place as well as a shit load of admins to look after them.
Once again a little late to the party - but we'd only be complaining if they released a new version every 12 months to "keep up". 3 year cycle, built-in management (for SME level anyway) and demand from consumers.
I'd rather have an ARM one at home to compliment my (currently) Win7 media PC that powers my TV (Media Centre). Got my Xbox sitting next to that and a Nokia Lumia 800 WP7.5 handset in my pocket.
Nailed.
Yes, companies are crying out for a tablet they can manage (i.e. cripple by pushing out bloated and inappropriate policy), but don't pretend it will use existing infrastructure.
It will be a whole new batch of management tools each running on their own instance of Windows server, with expensive licensing based on how many processors, how many clients, whether it's over intranet only or managing devices on cellular connections yada yada. You'll also need to upgrade all your existing infrastructure to the minimum OS/license version MS require you to have to connect this suite of management tools.
You know it's true, it's where MS make their profits.
That's not what the past has shown us.
For example; Windows 7 is a whole different beast than XP but both can be managed using MMC (Management console). 7 is a lot more extensive on that part, but they've simply added to their already existing management options.
And apart from that they expanded. When looking at Vista/Win7 we now also have stuff like powershell available.
Guess what? Both of which will also most likely be available on Win8.
You don't need new stuff; you simply need to know how it works.
If these tablets are to compete with the iPad they will need to be based on ARM, not Intel in which case they will have no apps since Windows on ARM can't run Intel binaries. You also only get the Metro interface. Intel based tablets may as well just be a laptop and likely will but with a touch screen bolted on. Battery life will be lousy and so you'll end up tied to a wall socket. So you lose one of the main benefits of Windows (applications) to get competitive battery life, or you lose the battery life and endp with a compromised tablet which will likely cost a bomb. Apple succeeded because the iPhone already had an app base that the iPad could run. MA better get the devs on board quickly with Metro or they're screwed.
without being able to link to the desktop, how are they ever going to get anywhere with the tablets? Doesn't the phone segment show how a lack of leverage with the desktop relates to failure for Microsoft?
I just don't see them doing much more than spending billions in advertising and exclusive product deals( think Nokia ) and the result will be the same as their phone efforts.
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