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back to article Facebook sheds light on Nokia's Lumia sales

Despite pushing half-second "break flashes" onto Channel 5 viewers – in contravention of Ofcom rules – Facebook figures seem to show the Lumia isn't selling as well as Nokia might have hoped. There are no official sales figures for the Lumia but the Windows-Phone-embedded Facebook application is only attracting around 1.3 …

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Embedded Applications are Evil

I was quite interested in Windows Phone 7, until I discovered that silly crap like "an embedded Facebook application" was shipped with it (or worse still, that the phone had an actual physical FB button). It's bad enough having to put up with carrier customisations without bloatware added by the OS vendors.

I want my smartphone OS to be lean and mean, but make it easy for me to add the applications (not bloody web sites masquerading as applications) I need and want.

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FAIL

Re Steve foster

Sadly, Nokia is not alone here.

My unlocked non carrier HTC Sensation has embedded FB and Twitter apps. You can't remove them without rooting the frigging phone.

Fail because non removable non core apps are really the fits.

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The worst thing about embedded apps

Is that they almost immediately require an update and then you end up wasting 2x the space - once for the original baked into flash and twice for the copy that masked out the original. HTC phones ship with approximately 20MB of superfluous junk so you waste 40MB of memory in no time. I don't get why they do this. They could still preload the phones with the apps but allow users to overwrite or delete them if they don't prove useful.

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Sony Ericsson another Faceplant infestation

Something like 10 or 12 APKs to remove to clean the FB infection on 2011 Xperia's. The good thing is you root and just delete them and the only thing that breaks is Facebook, I suspect it's a lot more complex to rid WP7 of it even rooted.

...and I'll have to do it again when ICS ships :( No doubt SE will find a few apps that don't yet have FB integration and up the APK count some more.

Maybe I'll get round to nuking SE "Timeline" as well, the feature that finally convinced me jumbling all your 'social network' feeds into 1 place is an incredibly bad idea. That's another dozen pointless APKs festering away in /system. Oh dear, is that one of the supposed selling points of WP7?

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MIc
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It doesn't have a built in FB app or a physical or special FB button. It has a people hub which can get info from FB if you want it to. So if you don't want FB you don't have to have it. sooo... try it first.

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FAIL

I won't let the fact I've never seen one stop me having an opinion!!!!

I've got a winphone and like the integration of Facebook. There's no Facebook button, (you're thinking of the HTC ChaCha and Salsa, both Androids) and if you don't want to use the Facebook integration, you don't sign it in. End of.

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Whats has any of this got to do with the FB integration in WP7? I have never heard of anybody having to flash the WP7 because of a FB infection? Perhaps its time you ditched Android for a decent secure phone!

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FAIL

Didn't we already know this?

I mean the ONLY people that aren't saying WP7 is a unmitigated disaster, are Microsoft, Nokia or those employed to say it's not...

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Um...

... And me. A platform neutral system administrator.

Personally I think it's a decent competitor to iOS and Android. Could do with a shake up really.

Guessing the figures don't take into account the 400 devices I know two companies use as corporate phones (400 between them) that don't allow FB on the devices.

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FAIL

Jog on Nokia+WP7

WP7 is a complete flop. Microsoft once had a huge % of the smartphone market and it got lazy and complacent. Even though WP7 is a good attempt, it's too little too late. I have no respect for a company that is reactive, I show my loyalty to those companies that innovate. Let's pretend WP7 does dominate the market, what's to stop them from sitting on their asses again once the competition has died out??? Not for me, I'll stick with Android which has shown true innovation even when it is clearly dominating the market. As for Nokia, they've just dug themselves their own grave by pairing with WP7. I suppose it's not too late for Nokia if they do decide to join forces with the likes of Android, otherwise the only business they'll really have are the "dumb" phones that you can pick up for £50 on Pay As You Go.

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Paris Hilton

You do realise how stupid a comment "I have no respect for a company that is reactive" is, yes?

No one company can solely survive on innovations. It's part of the whole competitive market process. Every company must be 'reactive' to its competitors innovations. That doesn't mean for one second that said company can't also be innovating.

If you said, "I have no respect for a company that is solely reactive", then fair play.

Based on your comment, you're an Android user. Android was built as a complete reaction to Apple's iPhone. Note how it looked uncannily like a BlackBerry before the iPhone. That doesn't mean Android is not innovating or great in it's own right.

Whatever hatred you might have for Microsoft, and I agree they were slow at "reacting" to the arrival of the iPhone, you can't deny there is also a lot of innovation in WP7. Some of those innovations will have Apple and Google reacting, and adding them into their own offerings.

If everyone had an Android - what is to stop Google from just sitting on the asses? Competition, innovation, and reaction are all essential! No one company is immune from the dangers of losing any of those three things...

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Anonymous Coward

That's more crapple

You should realise that the "looked like a blackberry" wasn't true. It was a prototype of the android system that was designed from the early days to run on different screen sizes, hard or soft keyboards, different hardware etc.

The early promo videos that demoed the "blackberry" style device also demos a full touchscreen device.

Look here for instance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPXwSChCRrA

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"what is to stop Google from just sitting on the asses?"

Nothing. But the beauty of OSS is they can't stop someone else doing it anyway. With Amazon already forking Android and others capable of the same, Google would be committing suicide if they tried being that lazy. They don't have enough closed source content in Android to protect themselves.

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Is 300,000 that bad?

If FB app uses have gone up by 300k in the last 2 months, and only 30% of WinMob7 users are using it, then that's a million handsets sold. Which isn't too bad. Not brilliant, obviously, but not terrible.

I'd be surprised if 30% use of built-in FB isn't high anyway, meaning they could have sold more. I guess that comes down to what demographic they're selling to. Especially as that 30% is 'regular users' (whatever that means).

It will be interesting if the Lumia 710 is cheap - as it's got decent hardware specs. That might win them some sales. It's a bit early to say. Other manufacturers have chucked Win7 phones out there, but made little effort to push them. Nokia has to, or it might go pop. It's got $1bn of Redmond's cash to play with, and the phones and OS are by no means terrible.

I predicted problems for Android in 2012 halfway through last year. Maybe a few of its faults might catch up with it. If I'm right (a very big if), there's an opportunity for someone, especially in the £200-£250 price bracket.

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Nya
Flame

Not accurate

It's not a totally accurate figure as some telco's *points at T-Mobile* utter bugger up the Lumia with "features" to pretty much massacre the inbuilt Facebook application and also disable many other features such as the wifi access point function. Thus leaving users to download and run other Facebook applications to get any kind of half decent connectivity.

While WinMo7 has issues with the lack of love off the telco's, and lack of users even know it exits. Thrown in with Nokia who are loathed by many of the staff in the various Telco's. The utter butchery of the device and OS by the telco's is the currently major problem. MS, and Nokia need to give the devices a unified and consistent delivery to the end user without the telco's pulling out major features to screw over the users...if with those issues they manage to get any at all!

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That's just MS / Nokia ...

Sucking up to the Telcos.

Look we are better then Apple because we will let you screw up the phones all you want.

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I'd rather...

...see:

- Actual sales numbers

- Totting up the number of unique FB accounts that access FB via a WinPho7 device. (e.g. m.facebook.com, the Facebook app AND also using the intergrated access.) I don't use the integrated one; my preference is the application as it's more fully featured.

@ Steve Foster:

Um - just don't add your FB account. Make no difference as to what you can do (other than Facebook specific functionality)

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Some of us...

Wouldn't go near facebook using a neighbours penis as insulation.

Furthermore; windows phone c/w integrated facebook. Not me Jasper!

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I was impressed by the first round of Windows phones. If Nokia steps it up this year when Windows phone 8 arrives, they could sell more. Business users could be a big target for them. Integration with Outlook and built in MS Office are major pluses that don't involve the purchase of additional software to get the functionality.

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Anonymous Coward

Are you talking about the Facebook app, or the Facebook integration to the People, Messaging, Me and Pictures hubs?

I've had my Omnia 7 for over a year. I use the People integration several times a day to see what my friends are doing. The other hubs I use less. I've used the Facebook app itself about 4 times in the last year.

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FAIL

Turds cannot be polished

Who'd have thought it. - m$ stuffing unremovable bloatware on users kit. Except this time they have a choice, as these sales figures show.

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Anonymous Coward

@ AC

yeah, I am not clear here if they are talking about the integration of FB in to the people hub on the phone or whether they are talking about a seperate FB app that is launched from the phone. I have both, but I still tend to mainly visit FB via the browser.

And hah hah at Bob Vistakin, I wonder how many keyboards he gets through each year thumping out angry rants against Microsoft. I work for MS and I think you are funny!!

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I have said it before.

... and will say it again, Win mobile has never been a success before why did people have high hopes for it this time?

I freely admit I don't own or use windows mobile now but in the past I have and wasn't impressed, and reading the reviews of win7 mobile I am even less impressed.

Just as a aside - I am no fan of embedded apps you can't remove, Games, Facebonk, twitter etc just annoy me and put me off the phone. I would rather have a phone shipped to me with a stock clean OS that I can tweak to my liking with applications I use. Then again what am I saying hardware OEM's have always bundled crap with there hardware.

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Anonymous Coward

"and will say it again"

Please don't.

Nobody cares.

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Happy

I quite like the look of it

I may swap to WinPhone when the contract is up on my DesireHD. That too comes with all the non-removable HTC stuff and the utterly pointless Soundhound.

To be honest, I don't really mind if it comes with Facebook. I find it useful, and I really like the look of the new interface, abnd the upcoming Nokia 900 looks fantastic.

Let's revisit this in 12 months when hopefully W8 will be live. The more competition, the better.

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Stop

This article's writer is misinformed.

Unlike iPhone and Android, Facebook integration is built into Windows Phone. As such, users of WP don't actually need to download the standalone FB app in order to use Facebook on their phone.

A Facebook engineer

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FAIL

And that's a good thing because...?

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Anonymous Coward

@J10fighter

i believe you are correct, my mate who does use the FB app is on the list of users but im not, and i do not use the app, i use the built in functionality, if i want to do more i just fire up the website but anyway, sounds like more FUD to me

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When Nokia release a phone with half decent specifications, then I will consider buying one again.

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Megaphone

It's not actually bad...

The embedded app is not so bad. It doesn't let you do everything, but provides the ability for things you normally need to do, and is a much nicer interface than the FB app or websites. As it is embedded, you benefit from a unified user experience for your basic/important functionality.

Unfortunately, early adopters are usually techie people, for whom user experience is often not a priority.

The Nokia Lumia 800 is by far better and more enjoyable to use than my previous phone, an Android HTC Desire. Obviously that is much older and slower...

I hope Nokia and WP don't die... what's wrong with a third way?

@j10fighter the writer is talking about the the WP7 embedded functionality, not the downloadable FB app for WP.

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Anonymous Coward

which FB app is it?

because i dont install the facebook app either, there is some functionality built in, but the actual FB app is crap, it does marginally more than the built in features and its quite slow.

I do however use facebook, and ive just confirmed that i am not signed up to that service(page)

So, all in all, this is saying that 1.3 Million users actively use the 3rd party FB app, is not a measure of actual FB usage, and is not a measure of WP uptake. sounds like more anti MS FUD if you ask me. Now for the MS haters who are likely to downvote me, please only do so if you can explain how this s accurate given that my phone isnt included in the stats?

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I am not sure using Facebook hits as an accurate count of phones sales is even close to reliable. The Lumia's will have been bought by a significantly large proportion of corporate users who would not even allow Facebook access. They just want simple email and a phone.

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Holmes

Nice Phone but crap app

Hi

Dont howl with derision, but after having owned many many phones in the last few years (all in the OMG U GEEK category), i plumped for a Lumia 800 ( after extensively test driving one in the ill fated 'Best Buy' store in Enfield...another story in itself)

I thought 'gosh what a nice phone' and got myself an upgrade on my contract renewal in November - not bad...

Anyhow, I'm not surprised the FB app is not much used, it's over complicated, and loads more hassle than just logging into fb via the built in browser (which is simplicity itself)... Tried it, didnt like it, uninstalled it.

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FAIL

It is to be expected

Both the low numbers of Lumia users "in the wild" with FB accounts in the integrated application, and the number of active, vocal Lumia "users" in the forums. I've used one for a few weeks (a gift) and gave up on it. My old N1 is faster, way more flexible, and does what I need a smartphone to do. The lumia did what I once did with a feature phone. If that is all you need, great. By all means get one. But I tell you, you can get a feature phone much cheaper.

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Anonymous Coward

@Jose Bernardo B R Silva

Sooo, in that case ill give you £50 for the useless lump that it is? ill even pay for postage, it was a gift (?) so win win for us both! you could even get yourself an android for that money and have the benifit of making someone else very very happy, think of it as your good deed for the whole year, im being serious, give me proof of postage and ill paypal you the money, hell i'll throw in a HTC touch HD as well for nothing.i think yo get £50 for sending those back to those phone websites so thats £100, not bad for a device you dont like and didnt pay for!

As i said tho, im not listed on that page as an active user, and yet i use FB, the only difference is i dont use a 3rd part App meaning that this is only a measure of 3rd party app usage, not FB usage via its built in services.

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Anonymous Coward

@Dazzza

Sorry, but I already gave it to the wife, as it fits her usage pattern - SMS, calls, some photos from time to time and that's almost all Since it has a better screen and a better camera than the blade she was using (something had to be better) she didn't mind. But as I've said in another forum, she has already complained the meteo app is inferior to the one in android...

Now I need to find out how to get the photos out of there and into a pc running a decent OS...

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Pretty poor article

After Nokia's announcements today it turns out your article was rubbish after all. Way more than 1 million devices have been shipped. I guess this means that all other WP7 sales projections based on FB use was FUD too.

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Anonymous Coward

Spot On

The Lumia 800 is a sales success. Perhaps not wildly successful but it's job done, box ticked and another 'WP is a disaster' article proven wrong again - they never seem embarrased - why is that?

More importantly, the Lumia 800 is a delight #and so is WP#. It's won industry awards and the new 900 won best device at CES 2012. Another job done.

Nokia's and Microsoft's only problem is the vitriolic stupidity and bias of the tech bloggin' industry. Register included. FUD indeed.

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Facepalm

Nice joke you spouted there. WP7 a delight? Only if limit your use of it as a phone with camera and forget all the "smart" part. But I think you exaggerated the joke when you claimed the reg, with andrew and all the pro-nokia/proWP7 bias, of having a bias against it; stating that isn't a joke, it is plain denial.

BTW, how is the salary at Waggener Edstrom?

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Im not even going to bother...

saying anything...

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