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back to article Now Proview seeks ban on ALL iPads coming out of China

Chinese monitor biz Proview, which says it owns the iPad trademark, now hopes to block the import and export of Apple's trendy tablets in the country. Proview International Holdings has already managed to get the expensive fondleslabs pulled out of some shops in China, following a ruling in the Asian nation's courts that found …

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Devil

This could be...

..the perfect excuse for Apple to move their manufacturing elsewhere.. perhaps to a more 'ethical' plant somewhere in the West?

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Ru
Silver badge

Unlikely.

The loss of profits that would result by manufacturing the device elsewhere would far exceed the costs of any settlement with Proview.

More importantly, there's no guarantee that manufacturing expertise exists outside of China anymore, especially not in anywhere else which might offer cheap manufacturing.

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Hmmm

This might be why Apple are talking to their Air suppliers in Taiwan about iPad 3. Assuming they don't manufacture everything in China.

http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2012/02/13/apple_pegatron_pressure/

It also depends on how much Proview want.

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FAIL

Can't be done.

There are no factories on anywhere near the same scale as Chinese plants. Take a good look at the sheer scale of some of Foxconn and Pegatron's plants and you'll see the problem: they're basically city-sized factories. Just one Foxconn plant has more people working in it than currently live in Guildford.

The only example of manufacturing on a similar scale is Ford, who have a mega-factory that takes in raw materials (steel, rubber, etc.) and spits out complete cars: you'd need to create a brand new supply and logistics chain on a similar scale to that.

In the US, where human labour is entire orders of magnitude more expensive, robots are taking over, but you pay the price in flexibility and capital costs: those robots might not require a salary, but they do require initial purchase (think six figures) plus ongoing servicing and maintenance. It's also harder to repurpose a sandblasting robot cell to perform, say, soldering instead. That's why China's manufacturing conglomerates are so successful.

Foxconn can simply repurpose last year's production line to produce wannabe "me-too" products from other clients. A US factory's production lines, filled with robots instead of humans, will be much harder to repurpose: A robot designed for, say, sandblasting an aluminium casing isn't going to be much use at soldering.

Apple would effectively need to fund the construction, fit-out and tooling of a brand new mega-factory and supply chain, from scratch. If you think Apple would then be dumb enough to hire *people* to do work that a robot can do, you've another think coming. So no, there wouldn't be much benefit to the US unemployment figures either way.

Apple, like Dell, Asus, HP and their ilk, chose China because it offers flexibility and massive economies of scale. Nobody else can crank out products in the quantities demanded by the West, in the timescales demanded by the West, for the prices demanded by the West.

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Trollface

Very easy

Foxconn plant — 02:00am

ATTENTION TO ALL WORKERS! WAKE UP, AND MAKE YOUR LUGGAGE. WE ARE MOVING THE PLANT TO VIETNAM.

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Anonymous Coward

Just need to add the name outside China

If the device as exported from China doesn't have the disputed name printed on it then it can't really be seized as a trademark violation, can it?

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Silver badge

All Proiew want

is $38M, so about a quarter of an Apple lawyers weekly fees.

personally I'd by quite happy to be given $38M but its peanuts for them, they are fighting this out of principle not for any real financial reason.

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Stop

Re: All Proview want

No, the $38 million is just the fine, Proview actually want $1.6 BILLION.

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Anonymous Coward

@Mondo...

Bit naive if you think any other electronics manufacturing plant in China is much different - Apple is nothing special here nor is Foxconn only making stuff for Apple.

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agreed, although there are some jobs that cant be done by robot OC for that final touch, so there is potential for a few hundred "working poor" minimum wage american jobs to be made by the 3rd party vulture contract agencies in that market...

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Bronze badge

I disagree

Brands went to Taiwan and then China because labour was less expensive and "green laws" were not even heard of.

THEN they started to be massive.

I do agree with you in that today it would be difficult to make them in the US or Europe.. but only because we have dismantled our factories and we decided not to build massive ones.

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its bit naive of an AC to ignore the fact 99% of Apple's profits comes from selling devices made by slaves/super low income working poor in China Often having to stand up 14 hours straight.

it a bit naive of an AC to ignore the fact that apples partners Foxconn custom built whole mega factories at no initial outlay from apple to get the apple contract to assemble these phones at $10 all in end to end...

and so on, of all the others you can mention ONLY apple make 99% of their mega profits on two products make at the same custom built whole mega factories and ship all that $500 a phone profit outside of china, whereas much of the own brand Android kit profit make and sold in china stays there, and good for them.

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Big talk

Try going for a few days without food and you will be glad for any employment that comes a long.

Standing up for 14 hours, you are mentally challenged to believed this.

The longer of this piece is an ihater and I don't blame it for the crap it had written.

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Coat

Presumably Proview had their little finger in the corner of their mouth when they said that in block capitals?

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Re: Big talk

LOL adam, seriously ,is that the best you can do, it's not talk, its called real life experience ,get out of your office and try it sometime

you just provided one of the better reasons the working poor all over the world will actually travel hundred's of miles just to get a low paid job, as for standing up for up to 14 hours and al the other points are taken from the facts as known to date in reports if you look,.

OC it appears You have never had that kind of work where you had to stand at a work station and keep up with the machinery (or get a reprimand for falling behind) for hours until change over and OC that change over meant more standing higher up the line doing more repetitive standing work.

many working poor even in the west have had such job's as that work involves a lot of turn over, i did such work as the Trades Union's were abolished back in the day, so worker rights means a lot to me and many others not big talk , real life, try it sometime on a 10 hour shift and not just for a crap 6 weeks of your university break, what's an "ihater" and why would he video and advocate lots of ARM products for years already long before anyone else in the media LOL

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Anonymous Coward

Re: This could be...

HAHAHAHAHAHA W O W!

Where 'in the West' would be more ethical?

Fool yourself, not foolin me!

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jai
Silver badge

how big are Proview?

Because, the loss of business to Foxconn and Pegatron etc etc could be more damaging to the Chinese economy than a small trademark license?

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Anonymous Coward

"How big is Proview"

Proview is a bankrupt company in the hands of banks, who are just trying to extract all possible remaining value out of it.

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Anonymous Coward

Just change the name - not that big of a deal.

Is 'Fondleslab' already trademarked?

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Anonymous Coward

@Stike Vomit

"Is 'Fondleslab' already trademarked?"

Yes, I understand that the company "Fond Les Labs" (known for their well-regarded research into girl-centric relationships) has taken out an injunction.

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jai
Silver badge

research into girl-centric relationships

that's a relief, I thought you were going to say it was company set up to breed happy lesbian Labrador dogs....

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Facepalm

They've kind of buggered themselves up there too

It's not like Apple can actually go for anything similar because of the precendent they themselves have set in their litigiousness, iPood, Driphone & Pad to name but three.

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Bronze badge

Well, iSlab is already taken, in multiple ways..

So, no iSlab...

http://www.google.com/search?q=islab&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

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Joke

@Richard 120

"They've kind of buggered themselves up there too"

What, the lesbians or the labradors...?

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Happy

Not realy

"an annoying little lawsuit into a major problem for Cupertino" it is just that the price went up.

If Apple want to play games, then the purchase in in Taiwan was a purchase in China, that's the official line, so are Proview denying that their Taiwan office is just another branch in China.

Some potential fun in this one, for us observing from the sidelines anyway.

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Coffee/keyboard

Banning iPad exports?

Fake meds: fine

Fake milk powder: no problem

Fake watches, DVDs, electronics, capacitors, chips, etc: all good

Original iPad: nope sorry can't export that I'm afraid.

Anyone really believes this will happen?

I suspect Proview has decidedly flown too close to the sun with this one...

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Anonymous Coward

>Fake milk powder: no problem

After trial and appeals etc the people (including company executives) responsible for this one, were shot and broken up for compulsory organ harvesting......[not joking].

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Anonymous Coward

And still not enough...

"Melamine tainted milk re-emerges in northwest China plant"

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/china/2010-07/09/c_13392414.htm

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Got to love the Chinese penal system.

If you're gonna have a death penalty, you may as well make it a useful one. I'm surprised they don't do it this way in Texas, to recover the costs of execution and benefit the tax payer.

Anyone remember a certain horror film about transplanting the body parts of a murderer.

Just for the record, I don't support the death penalty, it's just as bad as, if not worse than murder itself.

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Silver badge

SciFi got there first

Larry Niven based the whole of one of his literary universes around a society who 'harvest' body parts from convicted felons. His conclusion was that eventually people would end up being broken up for offences as serious as jay-walking and tax evasion.

Look up "Flatlander" or "Gil the Arm" if you are interested in reading the stories.

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Anonymous Coward

Tax evasion (fraud and bribery too) can carry the death penalty in China, and other sentences are more severe especially for officials.....much of our last parliament would be doing hard-labour for life, with a few of their major funders almost certainly taking the long walk.

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Coat

AC@14:14

"carry the death penalty in China, and other sentences are more severe"

I wonder what you would consider "more severe"?

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Silver badge

I wonder what you would consider "more severe"?

I remember one case of a woman sentenced to 20 years hard labour and then death. Which is more severe than just the usual Chinese "kill them out the back of the court" sentence.

Not big on appeals, the Chinese government. Or freedom. Or basically anything other than fascism dressed up as communism.

Still, mustn't grumble.

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FIA

"Larry Niven based the whole of one of his literary universes around a society who 'harvest' body parts from convicted felons. His conclusion was that eventually people would end up being broken up for offences as serious as jay-walking and tax evasion.."

Bloody hell. That's not good.

Glad I don't live in a country where prison labour can essentially be used as cheap slave labour, as I could see a situation where you could end up with a disproportionate amount of your population incarcerated for increasingly minor misdemeanour's..

Or in fact one that would jail people, without trial, for indeterminate lengths of time because they simply didn't like them.

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the so called "Original iPad" as you put it , are in fact real life "counterfeit ipad's" if apple want to sell into the massive Chinese markets as we already know they do under that name without owning the proper legal trademark or licensed from the real "Proview Shenzhen" owner, as always in a sellers market "buyer beware".

BTW there are plenty of London bridges for sale if apple want to purchase one from the many vendors claiming to own them going cheap with all the extra cash they are saving forcing Pegatron to take sides building that ASUS Zenbook and other profitable no apple kit.

http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2012/02/13/apple_pegatron_pressure/

Apple orders PC builder to 'choose sides' in laptop battle?

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Gold badge

Re: more severe

History has quite a number of regimes where a conviction resulted in some gruesome fate befalling family and friends (followed by your own demise, natch). I rather suspect that several still exist, though these days it tends not to be written explicitly in the statute books. It's just "understood".

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Happy

I wonder, is Proview friends with Google? LOL!!!

If that means no iPad3 guess I'll have to go for the Transformer Prime (kind'a leaning that way anyway, but can't find one in stock anywhere) - and I'd really like to see what the iPad3 offers, I mean, for me, all that's missing is a working SD slot.

Happy ipad1 owner here, but soz Apple, you created this monster all by yourselves.

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Gold badge

How so? it was Apple who kept getting sued initially by patent trolls. This was back when they were still mainly making iPods. All the claims against the clickwheel and other elements of the device.

So obviously once bitten they are going to bite back.

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Meh

@Giles Jones

I suspect there's a strong case to be made for the theory that all parties involved have, to some extent, been dicks in terms of patent trolling.

Having been on the receiving end of patent-troll bellendery doesn't excuse Apple from initiating more patent-troll bellendery of their own (though no doubt they'd argue that their particular brand of patent-troll bellendery was intuitive and a new paradigm in bellendery design and manufacturing).

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Coffee/keyboard

bellendery

*snigger*

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Happy

@Captain Underpants

One wonders if their new paradigm in bellendery could possibly be patentable...

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Happy

Titter

'chuckle' creative... snort! menu structure, gurn gurn $100 million Lulz

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Anonymous Coward

"One wonders if their new paradigm in bellendery could possibly be patentable..."

not now that Captain Underpants has prior art or at least the IP on it automatically :)

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Silver badge

Apple were litigious years before the iPod

They went through a phase of suing any a company anywhere in the world who used the word apple anywhere in their name, even companies who'd been trading since before Mr Jobs was born. They've been highly litigious since before the days of the Lisa.

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Anonymous Coward

"that means no iPad3 guess I'll have to go for the Transformer Prime (kind'a leaning that way anyway, but can't find one in stock)"

The words "can't find one in stock" say it all!

It's nice to see that people aren't just sucked in by Apple sheen and gloss, and they realise that far superior products are available.

"for me, all that's missing is a working SD slot" and for me, a product that doesn't carry a social stigma being seen carrying one!

Like it or not Applites, this is the truth that can't be avoided.

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Gold badge

This is the sort of excessive nonsense that gets CEOs angry and then causes all manner of further court cases.

The sooner people stop this nonsense the better.

Why would they seek to ban the iPad elsewhere when a trademark has to be registered in each individual country surely?

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They aren't asking to have it banned outside of China. They simply want imports and exports of it to be stopped....

I suspect Apple would have asked the same thing of the Galaxy Tab if they'd managed to get it banned in it's country of manufacture.

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Devil

Oh, now this is getting interesting

Time for popcorn i guess.

Fruity, totalitarian dictatorship vs communist regime. Be carefull China, Apple might sue away the Great Wall, they have prior art with walled garden systems after all.

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Bronze badge

Prior Art?

Only if Jobs reincarnates, then speak as Jobs and a few prior emperors. But, I'm not sure about WHICH emperor he'd have to mimic...

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