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back to article Windows 8.1 to freeze out small business apps

While Microsoft is happy with the “appification” of Windows, and prepares to go-live with Windows 8.1 on October 18, it's created a gap between present and future that could be a stumbling block for a bunch of small ISVs. The kind of company that lives between the consumer and the enterprise will still be able to create and ship …

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Facepalm

The message isn't clear enough yet?

The killing of technet should have made it clear already - they hate small ISVs.

Small ISVs could grow to large ISVs and cut into Redmond's market share. We can't have that, can we?

(I can't decide, if I should use the joke or the troll icon - I have a growing feeling, that they might really feel like this, so perhaps the slapping hand fits best)...

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Re: The message isn't clear enough yet?

Ballmer is leaving, things will change.

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Megaphone

Re: The message isn't clear enough yet?

Linux, linux, linux, linux....

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Happy

Re: The message isn't clear enough yet?

One more for good measure.

Linux.

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Bod

Re: The message isn't clear enough yet?

"Ballmer is leaving, things will change."

Ballmer out, Elop in. Business as usual. Both capable of destroying companies and not paying attention to user's needs.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: The message isn't clear enough yet?

@"Linux, linux, linux, linux"

We do not want linux, We do not want linux, We do not want linux, We do not want linux,We do not want linux...

We want windows fixed.

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Devil

Re: The message isn't clear enough yet?

> We do not want linux

The only thing WinDOS has to offer is legacy applications and Microsoft seems bound and determined to kill those off. World+Dog only uses Microsoft's OS because it has been considered the default desktop platform for 30 years and every obscure app that doesn't fit into their new model runs on it.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: The message isn't clear enough yet?

Or NetBSD, or OpenBSD, or FreeBSD, or DragonflyBSD, or Solaris, or OpenIndiana, or...

It's not all just Linux!

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Silver badge

Re: The message isn't clear enough yet?

"We want windows fixed"

Here, have a tissue.

Either use it or man up and stop being a pathetic MS dependent fool because nobody in Redmond gives a shit what you want.

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Mushroom

Re: The message isn't clear enough yet?

They're all derivatives of Unix...so the base is the same (OK, actually Multics...).

BUT, you lot can take your daemons, curses, and default file permissions of 666 and

go back to dungeons and dragons where you belong....

U*X, a hodge-podge of loosely-related utility programs masquerading as an operating system...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: The message isn't clear enough yet?

@ "...man up..."

Who says I'm a man? And anyway, I'm actually quite happy with windows and linux as they are, or as I currently use them.

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Alert

Re: The message isn't clear enough yet?

Well, that's not going to happen... you would need to fire the whole UX department, and roll back to a sane UI for the desktop. And split off the touch UI for those who want it. That's too much, I'm afraid. But it would be the only sane move I can think of. There are some other issues at hand, a consistent and - yeah - stable API, for example. And maybe listening to the customer, or the people that have the most contact with the customer. But that's waay off the mark. Danger of success, having to do real uncool work and all that.

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Re: "The default desktop platform for 30 years"

Just about twenty, actually. (Twenty-two or twenty-three at a stretch.)

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FAIL

Re: The message isn't clear enough yet?

" ... a consistent and - yeah - stable API ... "

Hmm - last I checked, unless you're writing a kernel module, the userspace API's and ABI's are pretty stable in linux. You must have missed that last rant that Linus did when someone broke userspace API in a kernel module that was being updated.

http://developers.slashdot.org/story/12/12/29/018234/linus-chews-up-kernel-maintainer-for-introducing-userspace-bug

Follow the link to the mailing list thread for the full effect.

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@alisonken1 Re: The message isn't clear enough yet?

Errmm... mine was an answer to "We want Windows fixed"... but thanks for the memories of the Linus rant. ;) I know that the userspace APIs on Linux are pretty well documented and stable. This is not the case for the Windows world.

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Re: The message isn't clear enough yet?

Mpeler - you could have been more original than repainting the Windows OS mission statement as Nix.

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Re: The message isn't clear enough yet?

Actually, Microsoft considers very large volume license corporations/govenemnts and OEM computer manufacturers as its customers. They are the only entities with which Microsoft deals directly. They do pay a bit of attention to their needs. Not so much to you though. Note that there isn't even a retail version of Windows any more and if you do buy software from Microsoft directly they actually outsource the download/distribution to third parties and have you in a phone queue to wait for "support".

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Unhappy

Telling...

Quote

and aren't welcome on the Windows 8.1 Start screen.

That seems to indicate that the Start Screen is going to be a case of 'here today and gone tomorrow'

The Ostriches in Redmond are still in charge it seems.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Telling...

Protectionism on an enterprising scale.

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Anonymous Coward

Not really an issue

as 8.0 and 8.1 with their bloody stupid full screen 'apps' are coming to the enterprise I work for over my dead body. We're sticking with Windows 7 for as long as is humanly possible. We're always looking into the feasibility of migrating to Linux anyway (and so far it isn't) and we're hoping it does become a feasible platform for us before Windows 7 reaches end-of-life.

My fingers are crossed that MS will hire a new CEO who isn't a massive dick and who will put the whole sorry TIFKAM on the desktop horror behind us.

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Linux

Re: Not really an issue

"My fingers are crossed that MS will hire a new CEO who isn't a massive dick and who will put the whole sorry TIFKAM on the desktop horror behind us."

Don't hold your breath for that.

To me the whole reason for all this nonsense is contained in the last statement "That way you could use Windows Store to sell and support the app ..."

MS are (again) following Apple and trying to corral people into their walled garden so as to extract the maximum amount of money for the least possible effort.

Lazy, cynical and contemptuous of their "partners" in the MS ecosystem.

I hope that you manage to migrate to Linux soon; it's well worth all the initial pain and the sense of being freed from the MS treadmill is exhilarating.

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Happy

Initial pain - then relief.

"It's well worth the initial pain..."

Rather like getting rid of an agonising tooth abcess. Once you have made the switch the sense of relief is indescribable, and you wonder why you put up with the MS pain for so long in the first place.

So does your accountant.

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New broom will sweep clean

Perhaps a new CEO who does not have ego tied up in a crap decision will come up with something better.

The buig question though is what this will do to customer confidence. Too many U-turns will make the punters giddy and they'll want to get off the Windows ride for anything else.

With the majority of newer corporate applications being deployed over web interfaces, the actual OS/desktop is less of an issue. All the punters need is a desktop -- any desktop -- that has a web browser.

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Stop

Re: Not really an issue -@nematoad

Except that Apple :

1) don't lock you in for desktop apps. You can install them from anywhere without giving Apple a cut.

2) Companies can install custom iOS apps without going through the app store also. It costs you a flat $300/year and includes all the dev tools to make it work. All you need to enrol in this is a DUNS number, which any company can get for free.

Microsoft are trying to do this for (1) and limiting the possible customer base for (2).

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Not really an issue

as 8.0 and 8.1 with their bloody stupid full screen 'apps' are coming to the enterprise I work for over my dead body. We're sticking with Windows 7 for as long as is humanly possible.

.. which won't be that long. I really hope you didn't think that moving to UEFI and the resurrection of the Trusted Computer chip was for YOUR benefit - all these are IMHO lock in tools to make Linux deployment harder..

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Re: All the punters need is a desktop -- any desktop -- that has a web browser.

So in the end Marc Andreessen will have been correct about the browser. It's just that because he shot off his mouth about it, Bill Gates saw the threat to his business empire and went for the horse head.

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Re: Not really an issue

@AC

The moon landing was a fake as well, there where no planes hitting the twin towers and NORAD is just a cover for an ancient interstellar transportation device.

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Re: Initial pain - then relief.

YOOZ ANbeSOL...

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buy side-load keys itself.

Putting aside why an enterprise would want a not-metro app over a Windows app, why do MS think I should pay them for a key to install software I bought from some other company.

Do I pay Ford if I stick a GPS on my dashboard?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Not really an issue

"MS are (again) following Apple and trying to corral people into their walled garden so as to extract the maximum amount of money for the least possible effort."

Except Apple don't do that. Third parties can still distribute installers that work just as well as they ever did outside of the Apple Application Store.

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Re: Not really an issue

Perhaps TPM, and UFEI might become more useful after MicroSoft exits the Stage...

This seems to be their BIG PLAN after all...

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Developers developers? Screw the developers!

This is probably the biggest reason Win8's TIFKAM is already dead.

It's hard to develop for, the rules mean no non-trivial applications, it's impossible to test...

Is it any wonder end users don't like it? All it ever manages is to get in the way of their "normal" Windows experience, which is where all their software actually lives.

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Someone think it is strange? Developing for RT-API is developing for MS, their the store, their your customers, their your business.

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DJV
Facepalm

Please...

...read this: http://www.wikihow.com/Use-There,-Their-and-They%27re

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Anonymous Coward

following Apple and trying to corral people into their walled garden

No, it's worse - OS X doesn't stop you installing apps.

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Re: following Apple and trying to corral people into their walled garden

Yet

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Intune IS for smaller businesses

Why would you install infrastructure on premises to manage your desktops and mobiles when someone else can run that infrastructure for you?

I think this is a non-issue. Get Intune, get the side load keys.

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Thumb Down

Re: Intune IS for smaller businesses

Well - why do anything by yourself and have control over your hardware/software/systems - when you can trust someone else to do it for you - and rip you off blind in the process?

That is in case you weren't just being sarcastic.

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Pint

Re: Intune IS for smaller businesses

You always end up paying, whether it's for hardware, software, support, or in downtime when the "solution" your expert installed falls over for the 3rd time this year. Whether you choose to invest that money in something with a financially backed SLA or Doug, the Linux guy, is up to you.

Anyway this conversation was meant to be about getting apps into Win 8.1, how did we get so distracted?

Beer, because it's Thursday afternoon here.

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Re: Intune IS for smaller businesses

Well - maybe you should choose more carefully the "experts" you hire.

And from what I've seen so far - it doesn't have to be necessarily Doug, the Linux guy. It could very well be Johnny, the Windows guy - who's been clicking buttons all his "professional" life - and has no clue what FAT stands for, or what is the difference between bits and bytes - and is completely lost when things don't work as the manual says they should work.

And big companies can be just as incompetent as little guys. When you don't give a shit about the quality of your product - and spend all your budget on marketing, and pandering to shareholders, instead of making your stuff work - it doesn't matter how big you are. I've lost track of the number of crappy software, hardware or solutions coming out from all corners of the industry. Hell, we get news of hundreds of millions worth of IT contracts failing almost every day - here and everywhere else in the world.

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Re: Intune IS for smaller businesses

Sarcastic?! Sounded more like the truth to me.... Nothing to sarcastic about that then...

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Johnny can be replaced by Jimmy,Janey or Joey

Yes, just like the Exchange setup that got dumped on me when Johnny left. It sort of mostly works, but I find a new WTF every day. Like Johnny's personal admin account being used as a service account for a few random things.

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FAIL

Licences for sideloading???

WTF

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Fortunately

I can't imagine anyone actually wanting to do this.

(I hope I don't ever work for someone who does.)

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Not satisfied with being spurned....

So when people are hesitant to buy your new product, you make it even harder to use your product?

Did anyone in MS attend business school or marketing 101?

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Show MS how you feel....

.... by pushing Linux solutions.

Microsoft will do whatever they want to do, right up to the point where it starts cutting into their profits, then maybe they'll change, if they have the right leadership. Recently though, they've been going "all in" on some really bad ideas, so who knows.

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Linux

Re: Show MS how you feel....

If Microsoft had gotten their act together a few years ago, THEY could be the dominant Linux supplier with an official Microsoft Linux which had their apps officially supported on it via compatibility libraries. There is nothing stopping them from putting their own proprietary windowing solution on top of Linux.

But no, they had to try and kill Linux...

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Show MS how you feel....

@paulc Are they trying to kill Linux by being one of the major contributors to the kernel, and by ensuring it can be virtualised on their hypervisor, or by integrating it into their cloud platform?

http://arstechnica.com/business/2012/04/linux-kernel-in-2011-15-million-total-lines-of-code-and-microsoft-is-a-top-contributor/

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Anonymous Coward

@AC 15:34GMT - Re: Show MS how you feel....

I had a good laugh at what you said. Microsoft major contributor! You're entertaining! The answer is in your post: [quote] their hypervisor... their cloud platform [/quote] How about not quietly changing SMB protocols adding proprietary extensions to prevent the SAMBA project from bringing a decent domain controller to run on Linux ? That would count as a major contribution not a bunch of drivers for virtualization in an effort to make world use their hypervisor instead of VMware or KVM.

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