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back to article Microsoft: Surface is DEAD. Long live the Surface 2!

Undeterred by its critics, Microsoft has torn the wraps off Surface 2: its upgraded Windows 8-powered tablets, now with faster processors, better graphics, a load of new accessories, and not one but two kickstand positions. Surface Pro 2 with docking station The Surface Pro 2 with its new docking station Redmond has already …

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Windows

Sounds like some improvements...

We'll see if the relative lack of apps and a "cool" brand continues to impede performance vs. Apple and Android tablets.

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LDS
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What lack of app?

The Pro 2 runs more and better apps than any iPad/Android tablet. Real professional app and not smartphone-designed ones.

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MIc

Re: What lack of app?

nothing like 5 down votes for an accurate statement....

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Sounds like some improvements...

Still won't sell

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Re: Sounds like some improvements...

Unfortunately, the prices are still out of whack when you look at either a comparable Android tablet or a much more powerful laptop.

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Re: What lack of app?

Indeed the Pro will run more apps since it will run the millions of regular Windows apps. The problem is that it is way too expensive when sold as a tablet, and is saddled with a terrible keyboard when used as a laptop. It tries to be both and therefore is successful as neither. For the same price you could buy a proper laptop and tablet, and each will fill its particular role better than the Surface Pro.

It is the computing equivalent of one of those combination car/boat vehicles that doesn't make a good car or a good boat, and costs as much of having one of each.

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LDS
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Re: What lack of app?

Sure, you can buy both. And carry around both. And charge both. And buy apps for both. And move data around to/from both. Maybe there are people who prefer just one device...

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an accurate statement...

True, but a very misleading one.

All these extra apps are designed for standard workstations, and will be dreadful to use in a tablet configuration.

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Re: an accurate statement...

No, it is not dreadful to use ordinary programs. Having used a pro for several months i have found absolutely no problem at all running any windows program including development environments, office programs and a host of other more special programs needed in my daily work.

As for the price complaints, who cares? if you use it for work, the price is not important, if you only want it for laying in your sofa and surf the web, then by all means, by the cheapest android.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: an accurate statement...

Bit of a strange anology that....

If I wanted it for work I'd just get a better specced and much more producutive laptop, and yes if I or millions of others around the world wanted it for the lounge, I'd get an iPad or a high-spec Android tablet.

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Re: Sounds like some improvements...

Wouldn't it be good if people started to buy the product?

Is it an overpriced tablet? Or an expensive small laptop?

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Re: What lack of app?

what is the definition of a real professional app?

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Re: What lack of app?

minesweeper

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Re: What lack of app?

So you've tried both of the newly improved keyboards already and you have determined they are terrible?

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Re: What lack of app?

Yes because tweaking the keyboard will really help this fly off the shelves...

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Re: What lack of app?

Yes, too bad MS is so eager to call them "legacy" and hide the desktop under tiles, just to turn win32 developers away!

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Anonymous Coward

Re: What lack of app?

"what is the definition of a real professional app?" Anti-Virus software.

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Re: What lack of app?

I have one (the first Surface Pro) with a type cover, and I love it. I previously had an iPad but it really was just a toy, and I had to go to my PC to do useful stuff. My PC is now mouldering in the garage and I don't miss it one bit (though we do have other network storage available for storing big files such as movies, and my old iphone converted to a media centre for the TV).

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Re: What lack of app? @LDS

Exactly. That is why I love my Samsung ATIV tablet. It gives me everything in one package, a full Windows PC and a tablet. No having to worry about syncing data.

I wouldn't trade it for an iPad or an Android tablet if you paid me.

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Re: What lack of app? @HwBoffin

Minesweeper on Windows 8 is great fun... Much better than the Windows 95 version.

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LDS
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Re: What lack of app?

Applications that pays your salary at the end of the month (and yes, even PowerPoint slides help to pay salaries). And they are not Angry Birds or YouTube - unless you're the developer of Angry Birds, or the owner of YouTube.

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LDS
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Re: an accurate statement...

Did you ever try a Pro? That's why it comes with a detchable keyboard and a digitizer. It runs smoothly desktop applications, even if not designed for a touch interface. I guess you also never used software with a graphic tablet...

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Re: What lack of app?

What's wrong with a car/boat comby? The last I used wasn't all that fast but it could swim nicely, reach 100km/h on the road, 800km on a single refueling, sun roof, high seating (and place for the friends), all wheel drive, stell bumpers, very silend and it never got towed away.

Ah, that old TPz "Fuchs" was fun back then...

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WTF?

Re: What lack of app?

For the price I think is a way better an ultrabook (and even much much better an MBA).

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My reaction to this news

So I sat here reading the article, seeing nice improvements all around for the Surface.... and then I get to the price and any interest I had evaporated before I even finished reading the sentence.

I'm sorry, but you just can't keep charging premium prices when your device is already a flop.

We'll see how things go with Surface 3. For some reason it always takes Microsoft 3 revisions before they finally do something right.

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LDS
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How much an Ultrabook costs?

The Surface Pro is an ultrabook with a detachable keyboard. You have to compare it with that class of devices, not an iPad or a Galaxy. A MacBook Air 11" with 128GB starts at $999.

While at $439 the Surface has an average price for an high-end tablet - although it's still less appealing than Apple and Samsung models, until MS gets Windows RT right.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: How much an Ultrabook costs?

"The Surface Pro is an ultrabook with a detachable keyboard."

Great, but the screen is too small and the Microsoft-provided keyboard options are not suitable for doing any significant amount of typing. Even the 11" MacBook Air's screen is 20% bigger and it has a nice, standard Apple keyboard and trackpad, not a floppy keyboard with a minuscule amount of key travel and a nearly pointless trackpad.

I know a couple people who have Surface Pros. They tried to use them as real laptops a few times. Now they just collect dust.

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Re: How much an Ultrabook costs?

Surface Pro 2 is $899 + cost of the keyboard, so you're looking at a price of $1,000 to make it a "ultra-book" like device.

I'd rather just buy a real ultra-book with a better screen and keyboard.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: How much an Ultrabook costs?

"I'd rather just buy a real ultra-book with a better screen and keyboard."

Also, have you seen anyone try to use a Surface as a laptop on their lap, with the kickstand out?

It's like a comedy sketch.

The person has to sit perfectly still, with his back hunched over and neck craned forward to see the too-small screen which is at a sub-optimal angle (and is precariously balanced) due to the kickstand. Laughable that anybody would use this as a laptop replacement.

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Re: How much an Ultrabook costs?

"Great, but the screen is too small"

Now remember Intel upping the expected screen size for the Ultra spec *after* extensive consumer research showed the screen was too small. Surface Pro is an Ultra Book 1.0 form factor that the public rejected before work on Surface even started!

As usual Microsoft will have to learn the hard way that they cannot dictate what the buying public *want* and without a functional monopoly they cant force something they don't want on the public.

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Re: How much an Ultrabook costs?

I keep swiping on my macbook air's screen and nothing happens...

gotta compare apples with, er apples.

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Re: How much an Ultrabook costs?

Sorry your math is out. The surface has a 10.1" screen, 20% bigger would be a 12.3" screen. 10.1" to 11" is a 9% increase.

Also you are comparing the touch cover to the MacBook Air's keyboard? At least do a fair comparison and compare it to the physical TypeCover.

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@MattEvansC3

It is your math that is out. 20% bigger refers to screen area, not diagonal measurement. Doubling the diagonal measurement of a screen would make it four times larger, not twice as large. The increase from 10.1" to 11" is about an 18.5% increase in screen size.

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Re: How much an Ultrabook costs?

> a sub-optimal angle (and is precariously balanced) due to the kickstand.

The 2nd position will give a better angle, _BUT_ the additional distance will move the kickstand beyond the knees and/or not leave enough room for the keyboard.

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Re: How much an Ultrabook costs?

Sorry your math is out. The surface has a 10.1" screen, 20% bigger would be a 12.3" screen. 10.1" to 11" is a 9% increase.

Both the width and height increase. With the same aspect ratio the increase in area is 18.6%

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Anonymous Coward

Re: How much an Ultrabook costs?

"Seeing as the only people who would realistically use it as a laptop would use the TypeCover which can support the weight of the Surface Pro without the kick stand then that would have to be like a quite contrived sketch."

You're mistaken. The Type Cover will not let you use a Surface like a regular laptop. You still have to have the kickstand kicked out, or the Surface will flop over (in one direction or the other).

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LDS
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Re: How much an Ultrabook costs?

1) Screen too small? Why? Too small for what?

2) Did you try the new keyboards already?

3) Does the MacBook Air 11" have a ten point touch screen?

4) Does the MacBook Air 11" have a 1920x1080 resolution?

5) Can you detach the keyboard from the MacBook Air and use it as a tablet?

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Re: How much an Ultrabook costs?

LDS is like the dutch boy with his finger in the dyke. He just knows eventually Stevie Ballmer's vision will allow Microsoft to conquer the mobile market if we all just believe.

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LDS
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Re: How much an Ultrabook costs?

And most people here are just MS haters who can't judge a device just on technical grounds. If this device was shown with Ubuntu installed instead of Windows 8 I'm sure praises would have skyrocketed, while some people on their knees would have thanked their gods for such a gift.

But because it's MS it has to be destroyed and burned. Maybe the Surface will be eventually successful, maybe it won't. If you're so sure about it's failure, what do you have to worry about?

I don't like Ballmer either, but I just don't hate any MS product just because Ballmer is the CEO. Nor I spend time denigrating Apple products on every article about them just because I didn't like Jobs too and his "walled garden" mania. Nor I like Google's "all your data are belong to us" mania, just avoid its products and again, don't spend time firing on any articles about Google new products. Just skip them.

Maybe there are too many people who are really afraid eventually MS could return successful in the mobile space as well... after all before the iPhone and the iPad Apple in its worst day tried to sell the Newton and the market didn't accept it - while Palm sold tons of its PDAs. Then Palm failed and Apple came back.

You could never tell what future will bring... especially people with short memory can't.

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Re: How much an Ultrabook costs?

A reviewer on another website said he didn't need the kickstand but reading up on it further you were right, he was talking out of his arse and I've withdraw my incorrect post accordingly.

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Re: @MattEvansC3

Should've understood it was referring to total screen space, my bad.

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Re: How much an Ultrabook costs?

>But because it's MS it has to be destroyed and burned.

Might have to do with all the goodwill they burned with their illegal monopoly. I never want to see that company ever take over a market again. Nobody destroys choice like Microsoft not even Apple who specialize in it. Microsoft's business model is summoned up in two words trojan horse.

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Re: My reaction to this news

My reaction?

"and not one but two kickstand positions."

Well whoopy do. In 1969 we landed on the moon. In 2013 we added a SECOND NOTCH TO A BIT OF PLASTIC..

head, hands, sound of sobbing.

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Coat

Re: My reaction to this news

So - are we on version 1.0a or 2.1 ... of Microsoft ?

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Re: How much an Ultrabook costs?

3) And precisely what use does ten point touch screen have? :)

Apart from producing fancy looking yet highly pointless struff. This is the real world, and nobody has any need for tripe like that.

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Re: How much an Ultrabook costs?

Part of the problem is that windows 8(.1) is not very good as a touch OS, or very good when controlled with a keyboard and mouse. How can you use a touch OS which needs a keyboard to find an app quickly?

Good luck to any who buys these devices. I fear there will be plenty of non-techy people talked into buying one but some spotty sales person. I saw someone buying a Surface RT yesterday ??

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Re: How much an Ultrabook costs? @LDS

" If this device was shown with Ubuntu installed instead of Windows 8 I'm sure praises would have skyrocketed,"

That is because it would be £100 cheaper and therefore good value. I get by perfectly well without any Windows applications, with the exception of occasionally running Sketchup in a XP VM.

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@Mystic Megabyte

A device with Ubuntu preinstalled would be mildly welcomed because we could *replace the OS on it*. Ubuntu is a steaming pile sharing many of the faults of Win8 Metro/Modern but at least they don't charge an arm and a leg for it.

An ARM device with Ubuntu would be eagerly welcomed compared to Win8 RT because again we could replace the stinking OS, unlike the RT device.

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Re: How much an Ultrabook costs?

"what use does ten point touch screen have?"

Multiplayer finger Twister.

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