back to article What do you mean there are no Surface Pros? HAND 'EM OVER, yell Microsoft resellers

Microsoft has yet to correctly forecast production of Surface Pro machines to match demand with supply, and shortages could continue into the summer. Or so say channel partners working under the authorised device reseller programme, which want Microsoft to recruit more hardware experts to iron out creases that continue to …

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  1. Steve Knox

    Which Version?

    Are we talking Surface Pro or Surface Pro 2 here?

    This is important to help understand where the demand is coming from, as I find the former to be vastly under spec for its price point, whereas the latter is vastly overpriced for its specifications.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Which Version?

      Agree with which version, but the rest, what??? With those 3 lines all you said was both are overpriced for their specification, so how will that help understand the demand?

      1. Steve Knox

        Re: Which Version?

        With those 3 lines all you said was both are overpriced for their specification...

        No, I didn't. There's a subtle but important difference in how I described each device, and that difference is reflective of the likely source of demand.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Which Version?

          Not really, you said they are both expensive for their hardware, one is cheaper crap, the other expensive crap, but better than the cheaper one. Neither of which then would then have more demand than the other, as both are still expensive, which means you are able to get something with better functionality / performance for the same or less, so people going for either price points would go for the alternative better performing product.

          1. Steve Knox

            Re: Which Version?

            I said exactly what I meant. Your inability to interpret my words literally and logically, without inserting your own bias (I never claimed either one was "crap", for example) is the only thing stopping you from seeing the logical conclusions of my statement.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Which Version?

              But you have claimed its crap by saying it is vastly under spec / vastly over priced. So the amount of money you are paying, it is crap, as you can buy something vastly superior for the same price.

              I am not biased, I have no feelings towards it either way, I have only used a pro 2 for a short period, and don't know how it performs in day to day use, just that its heavier than I would want in a tablet. I do not care it it succeeds or not, I get nothing out of it.

              Now if you had said that the pro was overpriced, but now its discounted, and no longer vastly under spec for the price point, then there is a distinction. Being vastly under spec at 2 slightly different price points doesn't give a distinction.

              1. Steve Knox

                Re: Which Version?

                I consider a Ferrari to be vastly overpriced. I certainly don't consider it to be crap.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: Which Version?

                  Then you consider it out of your price range, not vastly over priced. If a Ferrari costs £130,000 to manufacture and is sold at £150,000 (15% profit margin, which they do have), it is not vastly over priced. It's a greater margin than most other car manufacturers, but then it is a luxury item.

                  1. Steve Knox

                    Re: Which Version?

                    "Overpriced" means priced higher than I consider it worth, not priced out of my price range. I don't think Ferraris are worth what they charge for them, and I wouldn't pay that price even if I had it.

                    "Crap" means it has no value. I believe Ferraris have value, just not the value Ferrari assigns to them in pricing.

  2. Philippe

    Why would anyone want one?

    They just feel wrong to use.

    It must be the weird screen format, or trying to use a Desktop PC in a tablet format, or seeing those slim keyboards falling apart at PC World but there really is nothing attractive about them.

    iPad Air, Samsung Tab, and Xperia are way better tablets.

    Asus Transformers are way better convertibles

    1. hugh wanger

      Re: Why would anyone want one?

      If you're a kid or consumer you can have a preference. Even though i think android is very poor quality compared to iOS or Windows. Price or "hackability" might be your highest weighting so you'd choose Android. But you certainly cant claim any pecking order as fact.

      At work, if you want field tools iPad wins hands down.

      If you want to do Office with mouse and Keyboard Surface beats iPad easily.

      I myself use a Surface RT. Its the best of both worlds. I get a great tablet. But i also get a great notebook replacement with better portability and much better battery life. Its a brilliant tablet.

      i often go to meetings where the iPad crowd also take an actual notebook.

      i can use the Surface all day and never take my power brick even though it would fit in my pocket. Its 10 hours+ i also like the flat folding Arc mouse. I would advise getting the type cover over the touch cover. Its barely any thicker but typing is way better.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Why would anyone want one?

      "Asus Transformers are way better convertibles."

      One of the reasons I got the Transformer Book (other than for farting around with Windows 8.1, for the first time) was for something to take to meetings, rather than go through the pain of undocking the corporate Dell. Having something that boots up in seconds (or wakes up immediately) matters.

      That said, I don't have a problem with the design of the Surface or the Surface Pro. The Pro would be absolutely ideal for our sales staff (assuming putting a 'proper' corporate build of Windows 8.1, with PGP encryption, doesn't ruin just about every advantage of the Pro). Some of our sales staff actually gave up and bought their own MacBooks (something that doesn't take a couple of minutes to wake up, in front of a client, matters too).

      1. Danny 14

        Re: Why would anyone want one?

        it might not be a surface pro but we have a dell venue pro 8 here at work. Its on the domain and works quite well. We imaged it too (desktop port replicator with network). This particular one is the cheapest with the slow quad core but it still runs all our desktop apps without issue.

        I wouldnt want one as I dont see the point but it works well, doesnt get hot, runs everything a desktop at work does, VPNs the same, logs on the same and is portable. Personally i'd use a netbook (or more powerful small laptop) for the cost/usability.

        But it works at least.

  3. Suricou Raven

    Could they hasten production if they disassembled the plentiful supply of Surface RTs and salvaged components?

  4. JDX Gold badge

    So they made lots and nobody wanted them... then they din't make any and now people do want them?

    1. Frank N. Stein

      Sounds more like they are pulling a bait and switch, as the prices haven't reduced enough and the specs haven't increased enough to warrant an increase in demand.

  5. Nick Ryan Silver badge

    These things are a bit of an oddity...

    Touch in windows 8 still sucks even though much of the user interface in Windows 8 (8.1) has been murdered to be "touch friendly", when configuring them you frequently have to head back to desktop applications so you can actually get some things properly configured. Such as networking... In essence, the entire Windows 8.1 shell feels and acts like yet another MS bodge job, massacred by clueless UX developers, further trounced by greedy, clueless marketing department drones and then rushed out half implemented.

    It's not helped that, as noted by Steve Knox above, their specifications are just wrong for the price. For rather less money you can get a considerably more useful and powerful laptop which while this sounds daft, from experience most users want a keyboard with their Surface devices which basically means that they instantly turn into under powered, over priced laptops. The staggering inefficiency of the Windows OS and typical Windows applications really doesn't help them as the raw specifications and processing power does exceed competing tablets, but the final result just isn't the same.

    As much as I hate the Windows 8 interface on a desktop PC, it does make sense in use on a touchscreen tablet as the interface conforms more to tablet expectations (which are rather different to desktop or server expectations). I'd like to be able to run windows, or at least some windows applications, in a tablet form factor and the business case of multiple users and easy access to files and documents makes a strong case for them compared to iPads (forget it) or Android tablets (much easier, but no corporate control). But again, even Microsoft's flagship application Office is awful on a tablet as the user interface has been massacred - except for the bits that they couldn't be bothered to update of course, these still popup with the same old desktop windows. The result is MS Office on a tablet feels like just another MS Office skin-refresh bodge job with restricted functionality and poor usability therefore users tend to use the desktop version and for that they require a keyboard and mouse. Touch does substitute for a mouse in a lot of situations but pair a keyboard with a tablet and what do you get? Yep, a laptop of sorts...

  6. Vince

    Yes, where are they?

    Interesting because I've just fired off an e-mail (literally minutes before seeing this article) to our distributor asking when I will actually receive the Surface units we've ordered.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I can't speak for the pro models, but the basic Surfaces are now almost being given away, and for under £300 you can grab an expandable 64gb tablet with Office on it, a full size USB port and a 9hr battery life. Try getting an iPad that can do that for less than £500...

    1. Danny 14

      You can get a dell venue pro for less than £300 too, with 64gb SSD and full fat windows although the USB port needs a converter dongle (a few quid from ebay).

      Still, they can plug into port replicators and work happily with external wired network, external monitor and usb ports. I havent found a nice way of charging them at the same time though, im sure you can get a charging/usb splitter cable from ebay too.

  8. Mikel
    Pint

    I know the manufacturing constraint

    His name is Hank. He lives in Torrance, California. He's a semi-retired VCR repairman. He's making them as fast as he can at 15 hours a week, but the repetitive motion is aggravating his arthritis and he's just not willing to give it more than that and ruin his health. He is thinking about giving it up actually, he shared over a pint.

  9. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

    Supply Constraints

    Why are there still supply problems? Perhaps the Chinese worked ants can't put them together as easily as iPads and Android tablets?

    A good way to send potential customers in the direction of IOS and Android is got the store to say, 'Sorry, we may have some next month.'

    They will vote with their wallet and buy something else.

    Perhaps the new CEO in Redmond might like to read up on what happened to the Ford Edsel.

  10. Glostermeteor

    The biggest issue with surface is price. I would love to replace our 3 year old work laptops with surface devices, but I cannot justify it when an equivalent spec touch screen laptop is 40% cheaper. Until prices significantly come down to match that of laptops they will not take off.

  11. Hans 1

    She did say, however, that 1,000 devices had recently landed in distribution and by the next day, just 10 units were left after authorised device reseller feasted on them.

    So they produce them in batches of 1000? Probably to avoid the embarrassment of another $1bn write down. Now, these batches vanish in no time? I think Apple/android probably have that issue with one hundred times bigger batches... lol

    This is carefully orchestrated BS... all that for 4% market share, which obviously includes the loss making surface 1.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Microsoft misread the market

    They initially flooded the market with the RT device which was licensed for home and student use only and held fire on launching the Pro, then they wondered why no one in business initially bought them. The change in the Surface license conditions has helped but a lack of Pros hasn’t, it appears they are terrified to produce anything in any quantity which is constraining the ability of resellers to provide people with devices. Now is the time they should be gaining traction as businesses start to look at touch.

    It also appears to be a marmite product, people either love them or hate them with hardly any in the middle. I have many clients that have tried our demo units and they either give them back in about 5 minutes or they place an order.

    1. Brenda McViking
      FAIL

      Re: Microsoft misread the market

      The original RT was a joke that only the retired Windows ME development team found funny. However, everyone I've spoken to about the Pro would have them, if only they didn't cost as much as a second hand car.

      For microsoft to misread the market would have required them to actually look at their market, which they don't, because they already "know" what the market wants better than the market does. Hence their booming success, Windows 8 on every desktop, and the baying hordes outside redmond calling for Ballmer's return... Oh wait

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