Win XP holdouts storm eBay and licence brokers, hiss: Give us all your Windows 7 PC users are scouring auction sites and licence brokers to obtain copies of Windows 7 for their upgrades to Windows XP, rather than buying Windows 8. Sales of Windows 7 on eBay have more than doubled during the last seven months as people scramble to beat Microsoft’s 8 April cut-off for Windows XP support. Anybody running …
Many regard XP as the best, and Windows 7 as a small downgrade (compared to Windows 8 which is a large downgrade). This based on the UI experience.
If the hardware is old, then both 7 and 8 may take an elderly PC from usable to useless, in which case it's hard to argue that either represents an upgrade rather than a wrecking ball.
Not to dispute what many regard, but Windows 7 is not a downgrade at all (unless many confuse Office 2010 and the Ribbon with Win7 - entirely possible, I agree).
Windows 7 is much more stable than XP, doesn't freeze annoyingly when you accidentally click on an empty optical unit (although that issue is still not perfectly dealt with) and generally is much better at keeping one programs' issues away from the rest of the system.
Additionally, the 64-bit environment works much better than I thought it would. I can use all of my application library without trouble, almost all of my games, and with 16GB of RAM, I practically never run out of memory anymore.
So Win7, especially the 64-bit version, is a great improvement over XP - now that all my hardware has the proper drivers, of course.
That said, I would never install Win7 on a PC specced for XP. I'd rather get Ubuntu on that.
"It's an UPgrade, from Windows XP....." Actually it's both. The official M$ upgrade from WinXP is to Win8.1, not Win7. You have to buy a Win8.1 Pro license, upgrade to Win8.1 and then run the downgrade to Win7, unless you can get a secondhand Win7 license and have Win7 install media, so it is MORE expensive to upgrade to Win7 than Win8.1 due to the additional cost of the Pro license (which is what the article seems to be pointing out). M$ very obviously want to push users to Win8.1 rather than Win7.
"..... the FAIL icon just seems appropriate." Something about a petard springs to mind.
Viruses and malware aren't even an issue since updates for Defender will be released for another year anyway. The issue is operating system bugs which can be exploited, these may well be used by someone writing a virus but they are far from the same thing and it's disappointing to see Reg reporters fall for this in an obvious attempt to start an argument here about Windows 8 vs Windows 7.
Those buying Windows 7 probably aren't choosing it over Windows 8 because it's likely they have never even seen Windows 8 if they are in fact still running XP. Even if they do make a conscious choice for Windows 7 it's probably due to advice from a misguided techie friend telling them to do so either because that techie doesn't want to explain a mildly different interface or because they don't understand the mildly different interface themselves. Changing to 7 solves very little because it only has a year of mainstream support left itself while being basically the same OS as Windows 8.1 which has many years of support left.
advice from a misguided techie friend
And what about those who have actually tried it themselves, and still don't like it?
Are they just holding it wrong?
Win8 having a longer life time isn't a good enough reason for people to use it. They will use whatever they feel is best for them... until Windows "Silver Bullet" 9 comes out (which will only be more "windows 8ish").
People really need to drop Windows all together, if they don't like 8 - not use ageing software. MS wont change. Devs have been aggressively complaining about Visual Studio, but they're not budging. They knew there'd be back-lash, and they know where they're going.
I switched to Linux Mint on the weekend, and it's not difficult!
(anon because I've trolled Linux in the past - sorry, I take it all back now)
When native Adobe photoshop, and Sony vegas are available for Linux I'd probably switch for now Windows 8.1 is fine.
Don't like Metro/ModernUI?
Step 1.
open powershell and remove the apps.
Get-AppxPackage -AllUsers | Remove-AppxPackage
Get-AppXProvisionedPackage -online | Remove-AppxProvisionedPackage –online
Step 2.
install start8
Yeah 'cause Windows (h)8 is just so great with its Touch ONLY Interface, and no one has really ever given it a fair deal. And 'cause of a few misguided souls have frowned upon it. The World just hasn't really given Windows (h)8 the attention it so richly deserves.....
Brother go peddle your Warez someplace else we're not buying anything from MicroSoft today...
> Yeah 'cause Windows (h)8 is just so great with its Touch ONLY Interface,
Win8 has no Touch ONLY interface.
You have just disqualified yourself from any claim to knowledge of that OS and thus, any credible opinion of it.
Please feel free to post your ignorance to the Verge where they love that shit.
"Viruses and malware aren't even an issue since updates for Defender will be released for another year anyway. The issue is operating system bugs which can be exploited..."
So you're telling me Windows Defender will modify the core network/graphics/kernel stack to prevent an exploitable buffer overflow? Because normally that requires the network stack to be modified, and, oh, that's a problem.
All it takes is an exploit that kills Defenders scanning modules (or one of their dependancies) and you're dead in the water as far as protection goes - any old post-support exploit will then work. Antivirus software is not a panacea to an unsupported OS that will no longer get patches and should never be suggested as such by anyone who is familiar with these things.
Changing to 7 solves very little because it only has a year of mainstream support left itself while being basically the same OS as Windows 8.1 which has many years of support left.
Windows 7 may have support for a year, but Windows 7 Service Pack 1 has support till 2020.
By your rules, XP support ended nearly ten years ago (SP1 support ended in 2006).
Hope that helps.
Steven R
Fair enough, the first half was serious the second half was bait for the inevitable Windows 8 bashing the story was always designed to generate. The responses show that even reg readers are still avoiding updating their skills with some even thinking its touch only!
Anyone remember the updated mini clubman.....
At least British Leyland had the sense to continue updating the mechanicals of their original design along side that 'update'. Infact the original outlasted is successor by 20 years.
Does this make Microsoft bigger lumbering giant than BL?
Fact of the matter is that the UI used by XP and many of the non Unity/Gnome3 Linux desktop environments are pretty much close to the optimal for getting work done with a mouse and key board, if it aint broke dont fix it.
Give us something newer that appears a bit older please.
While it's perfectly ok for generic web surfing and office work etc, I think that the desktop metaphor for the GUI is tired and in despeate need of overhaul. We no longer need to think that the monitor in front of us is a shiny graphical version of the desktop, it is limiting in what can be achieved (because it's not open to treating anything like it's not a desktop/document) and the people working to advance GUIs should be cut a bit of slack. However it's always the same, any change is heavily objected to and rubbished, the oft used accusation of "this is just change for the sake of change" rolled out to justify resistance to change.
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Our office has quite a few instances of Win 8.1 running now, and has been running Win 8 since it was officially released. The free Classic Shell has handled over 99% of our user's problems with the new interface. The other 1% is handled by training users how to exit a Metro full-screen program if they get stuck in one (grab the top of the screen and swipe down to the bottom with the mouse). We also have several Win 7 PCs running, and users still like it, but I can't think of any problems for users who have been going from one to the other. Classic Shell seems to handle nearly everything.
And I've always retorted to Trolls such as yourself. That its NOT THE JOB OF STARDOCK TO FIX THESE THINGS... Much less to line their own Pockets form the misfortune of others. Please don't bring up that you "Flavor" was Free and didn't cost you a Dime. It doesn't really matter Point 1 still stands. Its wasn't their job to correct this um... Bug. That Job belongs solely to the Boys in Redmond!
1. Stop shouting.
2. Stardock haven't "fixed" anything. They've simply made life easier for those (like yourself) who are too stupid to use a launcher.
Actually, can we have that /Ignore function now please? You're the first person to make me think that that since Eadon got nuked.
1. Stop shouting.
Then stop being daft... Everyone here has heard about the all the flavors of Startdock's Products by now! The fact that nobody cares is telling...
2. Stardock haven't "fixed" anything. They've simply made life easier for those (like yourself) who are too stupid to use a launcher.
No I'm just smart enough to either stick with Windows 7, 'cause it still works, and is the defacto OS now. Or I use Cinnamon Mint Linux when I need a rest from all thing MicroSoft.
Actually, can we have that /Ignore function now please? You're the first person to make me think that that since Eadon got nuked.
I actually miss Eadon he was a voice of much needed wisdom and sanity 'round these parts.
I think he was just proclaiming his own godlike genius again or calling people shills (which is against the House Rules) or maybe he decided to fling shit at an article for mentioning Microsoft without adding thirty four pages of hate-filled rant.
One of those.
Anyway. Definitely nuked. I think Drew got him.
agree with that - but what do you recommend people should do in the meantime?
Isn't it obvious? Use Windows 7 hurr.... As to the eventual downfall of MicroSoft I for One, wont be crying at their Funeral. MicroSoft have gaffed it up BIG TIME on Windows (h)8, and no amount of .x's are ever gonna fix it now. Microsoft need to sh--can TIFKAM, and return us back into a more Areo-like GUI that everyone doesn't need to spend the bulk of their free time on For Dummy Book's just so as to figure out how to... Hit the Start Button mouse over to "Shut Down" "->" to either shutdown or to simply log off.
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@Michael Habel -
What the hell is "Stardock" anyway?
I'm talking about Classic Shell. It's free, and it's supported by a community of users. Works fantastic too.
Jesus - if you people are going to scream and yell about what a troll and shill I am, can you f***ing try to read what I'm saying for half a f***ng second? WTF??? Asshole.
Two things are quite extraordinary about this post:
(1) The number of nonsensical downvotes for a perfectly reasonable, not-in-the-slightest-controversial post about a very, very useful bit of software. So you did not bother waffling on about how stupid and/or evil Microsoft's brain-dead decision to ship a terrible UI that needs Classic Shell (or other similar software) to become decently usable was. Is that reason enough for the multiple downvotes? It's the only reason I can see, and it's absurd - plenty of other people have been making that point for a very long time (me amongst them), so much so that, in civilised discussion, it can usually be taken as granted, and it certainly doesn't need to be repeated in every post on every topic.
(2) The sheer ignorance of several posters flaming you bitching about Stardock! What has Stardock got to do with Classic Shell? Ans: nothing at all. As you know (but these clueless flamers don't) Stardock did not write Classic Shell, does not sell Classic Shell, and doubtless fervently wishes Classic Shell did not exist because it must be hard making a living selling the second-best fix for the Windows 8 UI disaster at $5 a pop when the best fix (by far) is free.
Could Microsoft disable Classic Shell? Presumably it would be fairly simple in technical terms. But would they? Surely not. Classic Shell (and to a lesser extent Start8 and a few lesser-known others) are the only things between Windows 8.x and utter market failure. Without Classic Shell (or one of the various others) Win 8 is effectively unusable and sales, already very bad, would go to much, much worse. Breaking it would be egregious commercial suicide of the most stupid imaginable kind, and despite all their many faults, Microsoft are not that stupid.
Um .... what did I just say? Oh dear. Well, maybe in this post-Vista, post-Ribbon, post-Metro world they aren't still that stupid.
Oh Microsoft is still that stupid, don't worry.
The thing is, even a complete moron can spot a train barrelling down on him while he's tied to the tracks, and when he does, he will start wriggling and squirming and attempting to break free.
Microsoft is tied to the PC world track, and the browser train is due to pass any time now. I call it the browser train because every pad, tablet, phone and whatnot that people are using today to do what they did - and more of what they didn't - on PCs, every thingamabob people are sticking their fingers on now has an HTML-type interface to the various walled gardens Apple and the rest are trying to herd them in to.
PCs are going to back to a minority position for the simple reason that they got foisted onto everybody only because there was no other choice. There is choice now, and people are choosing, and they are not choosing PCs because those bloody things are complicated to understand and maintain. A tablet, on the other hand, is simplicity itself - or so the marketing department would like us to think.
So the threat is looming, casting a shadow over Microsoft headquarters, and there is panic in the upper spheres. And Microsoft does what it always has done : create a new One OS for everything, this time touch-enabled because the future is very much to do with touchscreens, whether or not said screens are attached to a PC.
The Start button, not-Metro issue is Microsoft squirming and wriggling and not getting out of its situation. It's not getting out of its situation because there is a mindlock at the MS board : it's Windows or nothing.
No problem guys, it'll be nothing then. When consumers will have entirely moved to the next generation of whatever we'll call a computer at that time, Windows will be a dead dodo for the public, good only for programming, heavy-duty data management and business applications.
I'll be curious to see how MS manages its situation in the coming years, when a generation that has not grown up on Windows starts entering the job market. I think that is when MS is going to start seeing a growing dent in its money tower. Because until then, MS has more money than it needs to weather the situation - well, unless it goes on gobbling useless startups at billions in costs which, in its current state of near-desperation, it is entirely capable of doing.
Since I'm in a position to do so, I thought I would give a different perspective here. I've been a Linux user ever since moving up from my Amigas. I'm currently on KUbuntu because I didn't want to go with Unity. A few months ago, I decided to buy a laptop, to take to some meetings and to try to get my software running on (Cygwin made it trivial!). The machine (a low-end from HP) came with Windows 8, which I upgraded to 8.1 when it became available.
I curse whenever I use the machine. But, the main curse is for the laptop keyboard with its poor feel, changed layout and narrower spacing. I cannot type reliably on it. Now that I always plug in a USB mouse, I can avoid the detestable trackpad thingy. That leaves my next curse being for not being able to set it up so that windows select when the cursor is over them, but *do not raise*. Anyone know how to make Windows do that?
Going from 8.0 to 8.1 simply meant that I've told it to start in the usual desktop mode instead of the Start Screen mode. I never use the Start Screen mode, and I dislike the model of applications taking up the whole screen. I use LibreOffice on it (didn't come with MS Office), and I loaded FoxIt for PDF's to avoid the full-screen-only PDF reader app.
I have a horrible time finding settings, but I expect I would on any Windows machine. I also am quite frustrated by the lengthy update process (especially for HP stuff), compared to what I am used to on Linux. So, for me, the fact that it is a laptop and not a real computer is the biggest problem. The second is that it is the very unfamiliar Windows instead of Linux. The fact that it is Window 8.1 is actually fairly minor after those.
Don't believe windows can do that out of the box. You may be able to find a third party extension that does that, but by default in Windows if you want to click it it has to be on top.
Happy to be proved wrong though if anyone knows any better!
Well, 8 has "Activate window by hovering over it with a mouse" in "settings" then "change how your mouse works", but that doesn't do what the OP wants. It brings the app you hover over to the top (and makes task switching with alt-tab impossible as the mouse just grabs focus back! Ewww!).
Still, I've learned something there! Pity it's not more useful....
"Downgrading can also put you in a shaky position with the PC maker: OEMs vary in their willingness to support and maintain PCs that have been downgraded"
Maybe it's just me, but I would think if they are still running XP, especially in small Mom-and-Pop shops, then the OEM's warranty ran out many years ago...
I haven't asked why they have decide to no longer charge a premium for 7, but knowing the system builder, I suspect the reason isn't because they can't charge a premium but because it isn't working to their benefit (I note they have also increased their prices for Win8).
From my perspective, I can say, I've received in total more support calls concerning the handful of Win8 laptops I've sourced than for the dozens of XP and Win7 systems delivered over the years, hence I can see part of the decision to remove the Win7 premium could be down to removing a price incentive for customers to opt for Win8 that could be resulting in a higher than anticipated level of support calls and returns during the warranty period (and hence have to be resolved either at no charge to the customer or by way of a refund etc.).
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