Orsen...
he is back with you now, a sad loss to us all and our thoughts are with his family at this terrible time.
Hollywood star Robin Williams dies of 'suspected suicide' at 63
Hollywood actor Robin Williams has died of a suspected suicide at the age of 63. Robin Williams at a BBC talk (sergey brin cropped out)) Robin Williams jumps up on stage for an impromptu riff during technical difficulties in the BBC filming. Photo by Steve Jurvetson, licensed under CC 2.0 The star, whose distinctive …
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Tuesday 12th August 2014 11:33 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Mork Calling Orson
"Sad news. When will we take mental health seriously?"
Good point. Depression is a terrible thing. When you think that a man with his success and wealth could get to a point where death is actually the better option, it really makes you think.
There are no quick fixes, but a wider acceptance and understanding of mental health issues would certainly help.
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Tuesday 12th August 2014 11:39 GMT fruitoftheloon
Re: Mork Calling Orson
Eg,
couldn't agree with you more, I still find it odd how family members that I have great relations with talk about [their words] "your problem", as opposed to the depression that I am dealing with (and winning now at last)
Many thanks for your insightful narrative.
J
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Tuesday 12th August 2014 17:21 GMT Hollerith 1
Re: Mork Calling Orson @fruitoftheloon
Fight the good fight, my friend. I think depression is about as rough a ticket as they can hand you. No one can see the pain, so no one helps or respects you for it. But when you have won through, as I hope you will, then the victory will be the sweeter for being self-won.
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Tuesday 12th August 2014 12:44 GMT Nick Ryan
Re: Mork Calling Orson
"Sad news. When will we take mental health seriously?"
Where shall we begin? Help begins with family, friends and professional counsellors who are trained how to help people get out of their mental ruts / holes / whatever... the sufferer is the only one that can stop the depression but they often need the help of others and may often be unwilling to ask for help or even to accept the problem, particularly men. Except in rather rare cases, prescribing drugs for depression is not the way forward, however it is the way that far too many (substandard) GPs treat it. Along with antibiotics for colds.
The really sad part is the statement "Williams' publicist Mara Buxbaum said the actor had battled severe depression in recent months". Where was the help?
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Tuesday 12th August 2014 13:53 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Mork Calling Orson
"The really sad part is the statement "Williams' publicist Mara Buxbaum said the actor had battled severe depression in recent months". Where was the help?"
He was in one of the most expensive rehab clinics in the world since July 1st...
But I wonder how much "mental health" issues (especially in this case) are related to alcoholism, strong cocaine use, etc. Stuff that kills brain cells probably is bad.
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Wednesday 13th August 2014 13:58 GMT Tom 13
Re: how much...related to alcoholism, strong cocaine use, etc.
Probably a chicken and egg issue. Mental health issues lend themselves to these destructive behaviors, the behaviors in turn make it more difficult to deal with the mental health issues. Wherever you find addictions you are also likely dealing with obsessive compulsive behavior. Since people are normally only in treatment after something destructive has happened, by the time doctors see it there are usually multiple entangled issues already present. OCB can also manifest itself in other destructive behaviors like gambling, sex, or even excessive online gaming.
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Wednesday 20th August 2014 08:48 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Mork Calling Orson
The use of drugs alcohol sex etc. to dull the pain are what is known in the profession as "co-morbid behaviors" . Frequently, these are symptoms, not the true cause.
Most people are very poorly informed about the how devastating bipolar and depressive conditions can be for both the afflicted and their loved ones. I agree that society needs better understanding and tolerance. On many levels, mental illness has much in common with physical illnesses, such as cancer or diabetes. Both cause pain and suffering, can require hospitalization, and can lead to death (suicides). Drug treatments are often very effective when the condition is linked to chemical imbalances in the brain. These drugs don't cure the bipolar or depressive condition but can ameliorate its worst effects.
People suggesting that depressed people just need to "snap out of it" are very misinformed. They also contribute further to the social stigmatization associated with mental illness.
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Tuesday 12th August 2014 14:16 GMT RyokuMas
Re: Mork Calling Orson
"Sad news. When will we take mental health seriously?"
Where shall we begin?
General awareness on the social media we use most days is something we can all do - watching what we say, share and like (people who shared the image of the "Monk" box set covers, I'm looking at you for starters, OCD is no laughing matter).
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Tuesday 12th August 2014 13:28 GMT Ross K
Re: When will we take mental health seriously?
Since he had sought treatment I think he was taking it seriously.
Thanks for the trite answer, but when I wrote "When will WE take mental health seriously?" I was thinking more of the families, friends, workmates etc of people suffering from depression. A lot of people walk around with their eyes closed, choosing not to see what's going on with the people in their lives.
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Tuesday 12th August 2014 13:45 GMT ElectricFox
Re: When will we take mental health seriously?
I've spoken quite a bit to a couple of relatives who are professors of mental health at a university. They both say that bipolar disorders and depressions are impossible to treat without drugs. The chemical inbalances are insurmountable by any amount of support and motivation for the sufferer. This will be the 10% of cases you're talking about.
The bottom line is that society really needs to remove the stigma attached to mental health disorders.
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Tuesday 12th August 2014 14:22 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: When will we take mental health seriously?
"They both say that bipolar disorders and depressions are impossible to treat without drugs...."
bipolar, perhaps, but "depressions", bollocks.
Wife has been living with depression for several years now and bar FAR the biggest "fix" is lifestyle changes. Exercise, mindfulness (very good for a lot of people), diet, yoga etc have done way more to help her than pills. Luckily her doctor was well up on mental health and prescribed those things as well as pills and as the lifestyle changes took hold, dropped the dosage step by step and now it's manageable.
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Tuesday 12th August 2014 15:12 GMT ThomH
Re: When will we take mental health seriously?
I saw the headline of his death and assumed a heart attack or something. I read the article, which said suicide, and immediately thought "oh, so there was nothing wrong with him". Only then did I consciously correct myself.
So I'm thoroughly of the opinion that mental health needs to be taken seriously but apparently still catch even myself not doing so. It's deeply sad that Robin Williams was sick and that his sickness killed him; I hope regressive instincts similar to mine didn't contribute and can be overcome more widely.
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Tuesday 12th August 2014 18:53 GMT BlueGreen
Re: When will we take mental health seriously?
I think mental illness is taken very seriously by health pros these days. The general public is a lot better than most people think.
> I've spoken quite a bit to a couple of relatives who are professors of mental health at a university. They both say that bipolar disorders and depressions are impossible to treat without drugs.
I don't believe this is true of depression. I know about depression, it's something that has devastated (and I use that word deliberately) a very large part of my life.
Depression has multiple causes and may need multiple treatments, drugs certainly being one of them. Without prozac I'd most likely be dead, and honestly, death is preferable to that feeling of having your guts twisted into a hard black knot that hurts so much. Such a revelation when I realised that other people didn't have that black knot in them, their strangely different (in other words, happy) behaviour suddenly made sense. And what a hideous revelation it was, to discover so much of your life could have been, literally, unimaginably better.
With some people talking therapy works. A lot of depression is an habitual thought, a habit of seeing the world as an hostile place, and oh my, isn't the world willing to oblige that viewpoint, and the poisonous snake eats a little more of its own poisonous tail and sickens some more. Talking can help there - for some people.
In other case, a bad or abusive childhood can kick things off nicely. Not much can undo that, sadly.
I've previously posted about this as AC, not because I give a shite who knows, everyone who knows me quickly susses there's something weird here, but because I don't want my other posts interpreted in the light of my mental illness (cos that's what it is).
Anyway, for me the bad stuff is over now. If anyone else recognises that kind of extreme psychological pain in themselves, get thee to the doc, it responds quite well to the right treatment[*]. It can be difficult to recognise if that's all you've ever known, and it can be easy to discount your own suffering because you're so familar with it that you convince yourself others must have it so much worse, but often they are no worse than you. If you regularly find the idea of a quiet death attractive, yes, it's an option but leave it 'till last; please see the docs first, they're pretty good.
Sorry for the ramble but been there, done that & got that black, black t-shirt.
I hope you've found your peace, Robin, I really do. Very nearly got that t-shirt as well.
[*] if you're prescribed antidepressants, they're likely to make things worse for a few weeks before making them better. Don't stop taking them at this point!
Me. Because I can't find the napoleon icon --------------------------------------->
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Wednesday 13th August 2014 01:44 GMT Shannon Jacobs
Re: When will we take mental health seriously?
It's also the stigma attached to being average. To "succeed" in today's world, especially to succeed on a large scale (and Robin Williams certainly succeeded), you have to be more than a little bit crazy. I also suspect that he was bipolar, but if the "appropriate" chemical treatment would have threatened his success, even his ability to earn a living, then I can't blame him for wanting to succeed. I think we should blame ourselves for so badly wanting him to succeed in spite of the personal costs...
My own take is that everyone is a little crazy. In joke form, "Everyone's crazy save thee and I, and sometimes I wonder about thee/me/us." On the scale of humor as defined by Robin Williams, the joke doesn't move the needle.
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Wednesday 13th August 2014 08:09 GMT James Micallef
Re: When will we take mental health seriously?
"society really needs to remove the stigma attached to mental health disorders"
Exactly this. Society at lareg treats mentally ill people as lepers. We're still in the middle ages acting as if mentally ill people are possessed by the devil. It requires a lot more understanding. Where are the large-scale educational campaigns such as the HIV ones in the 90s?
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Wednesday 13th August 2014 13:49 GMT Tom 13
Re: When will we take mental health seriously?
Nothing trite about it. Until you deal with the reality I just described you won't be able to help anyone. Quite honestly, I took a fair bit of comfort in those around me with their eyes closed to it. Enough people knew and were trying to help me where they could. If I would have had even more people trying to help me, I like would have gone deeper into depression.
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Tuesday 12th August 2014 15:53 GMT Sir Runcible Spoon
Re: Mork Calling Orson
I don't think his depression was recent, all the interviews I have ever seen him give I don't think I ever saw the 'real' Robin Williams.
It's fairly well known that comedians are often depressives, there are lots of psychological reasons why they become comedians.
Anyway, it's a loss - he made some great entertainment.
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Wednesday 13th August 2014 04:38 GMT P. Lee
Re: Mork Calling Orson
> Probably about the same time we finally realize that suicide is a perfectly normal
> impulse/thought/wish to have and a sacred human right to carry out if one wishes to.
And the depression, is normal too? Perhaps we shouldn't do anything to upset the "normal" course of events by helping people out of such a state.
Anytime someone argues that the degrading and destruction of human life is a normal (implying "ok") thing, I get more than annoyed. What about the crushing misery he has left in his wake for his wife and children? I'm reasonably sure his family do not think that his death is either ok or normal. Death is not ok, it is an unwelcome intrusion into life. Depression is an unwelcome burden on life. The turning of a human being into something non-human is to be fought against. To portray suicide as acceptable is to devalue that human's life.
Accepting suicide also has practical ethical issues. It places an unacceptable burden on the those who cannot carry their own weight in society.
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Wednesday 13th August 2014 13:50 GMT BlueGreen
Re: Mork Calling Orson @P. Lee
> And the depression, is normal too?
Of course it is! It's normal and necessary as mild depression gives feedback on the individual's state, just as pain does. But it is also normal for it to get out of control. Our immune systems can get out of control too and can cause havoc. All of this is normal, but like TB or malaria is normal, that doesn't make TB or malaria or an overactive immune system is *desirable*, so we try to treat it.
For some people, depression can't be treated, or controlled. For whatever reason.
> Anytime someone argues that the degrading and destruction of human life is a normal (implying "ok") thing, I get more than annoyed.
You've not been there so you can give simplified and frankly cruel rulings from your high throne of ignorance. It's more complex than that:
* You can't comprehend how bad things can get. You just don't know. You're doubtless more sympathetic to physical pain because it's something you've experienced directly. Well, I can tell you, having over a decade of bad physical pain and disability, and the expectation that I'd have to live with that for rest of my life (turns out I won't, luckily), I'd rather have that than clinical depression.
* You're talking about using emotional blackmail to force someone to stay alive. If they're so bad that they genuinely wish to cease their existence, do you not see how evil that can be?
* How do you think a spouse would feel about living with someone in that condition? Badly physically disabled people have requested death and their spouses will in some cases support them because they can see the suffering (would you?). A spouse might be just as understanding in mental illness cases (young children are another matter). Why do you thiink mental suffering is so much better just because it doesn't involve tubes and a wheelchair?
* Here's one I'm sure you've never realised: the option of suicide was for me a huge comfort. Knowing I could pull the plug at any time kept me going. I really didn't have anything else worth going on for at those points. If someonehad tried to take that away... I don't know what I would have done or how I would have coped. I would certainly have been made even worse. Complex, isn't it?
> The turning of a human being into something non-human is to be fought against.
Up to a point. Try and be a little more understanding, please.
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Wednesday 13th August 2014 14:22 GMT Tom 13
Re: Mork Calling Orson @P. Lee
While both of your comments have some validity, on the whole I'd side with P. Lee. And yes, I have been there.*
There are far too many people in society who are willing to move your thoughtful comments on edge cases away from the edge and into normal for their own selfish purposes. So I believe we must insist the instinct is to always protect life and only deviate from that for the gravest of reasons which have been fully challenged at each step. It may not have been intended, but in the comment to which P. Lee was responding, I read a bit too much of the unrepentant Ebeneezer Scrooge: if they want to kill themselves they'd best get on with it; too much surplus population anyway.
*Still fight it daily in my own way because the neither the drugs nor the talking help beyond what recovery I have made. Not debilitating the way it once was, I'm functional in society and pay my own way. Sometimes I even enjoy myself. I just never forget where the abyss lies and do my best to avoid even fleeting contact with it.
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Tuesday 12th August 2014 11:23 GMT stucs201
O Captain! My Captain! our fearful trip is done;
The ship has weather'd every rack, the prize we sought is won;
The port is near, the bells I hear, the people all exulting,
While follow eyes the steady keel, the vessel grim and daring:
But O heart! heart! heart!
O the bleeding drops of red,
Where on the deck my Captain lies,
Fallen cold and dead.
O Captain! My Captain! rise up and hear the bells;
Rise up—for you the flag is flung—for you the bugle trills;
For you bouquets and ribbon'd wreaths—for you the shores a-crowding;
For you they call, the swaying mass, their eager faces turning;
Here captain! dear father!
This arm beneath your head;
It is some dream that on the deck,
You've fallen cold and dead.
My Captain does not answer, his lips are pale and still;
My father does not feel my arm, he has no pulse nor will;
The ship is anchor'd safe and sound, its voyage closed and done;
From fearful trip, the victor ship, comes in with object won;
Exult, O shores, and ring, O bells!
But I, with mournful tread,
Walk the deck my captain lies,
Fallen cold and dead.
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Tuesday 12th August 2014 14:08 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Very sad to hear
"If you read the biographies of some of the greatest comic talents time and again there does seem to be a common factor of personal tragedy or 'demons'."
If you read the biographies of some of the greatest DRUG USERS time and again there does seem to be a common factor of personal tragedy or 'demons'.
See Cobain, Ledger, etc.
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Tuesday 12th August 2014 15:53 GMT Steven Raith
Re: Very sad to hear
Because no-ones ever used drugs to try to manage their manic highs (tranqs, other downers) and their crippling lows (coke, booze, speed etc) that they already had before they came across easy access to the drugs in the entertainment industry.
Carrie Fisher, Stephen Fry, Richard Dreyfuss, etc. And that's just a quick pick from one documentary on the subject.
Dozens of other examples are available if you actually open your fucking eyes.
Steven R
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Wednesday 13th August 2014 10:31 GMT Hans 1
Re: Very sad to hear
@ Sir Runcible Spoon
Shut up!
Ever heard of the girl in the pub who had some tablet put in her glass x years ago and has not come down since? I know one.
One of my band mates thought it would be a great idea to go on a special trip to Amsterdam, he came back with a severe mental condition, could barely play the guitar anymore. A cousin did the same in Africa ... now, that is three close relatives of mine. The band mate and cousin eventually took their lives ... yes, they realized they had fucked up their lives .... all for a week of fun with special stuff ... most of the time, you do not know what you are taking ...
That reminds of one my schoolmates, we would smoke grass in front of school back in the day during lunch break ... maths on Friday afternoon with your head on the moon was something, I tell ya. Anyway, this guy got hooked pretty soon on the shit ... he never managed a-levels and eventually took his life. He used to be a bright guy, 5 years of grass later and he was the shadow of that. Slow thinker, kept forgetting stuff, useless pile of flesh. I must say, his parents were smoking the shit at home as well ... so was he, with them.
I am against bans on drugs, black market drugs are really bad, and it is unbelievable that you are not allowed to grow your own stuff.
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Thursday 14th August 2014 08:51 GMT Sir Runcible Spoon
Re: Very sad to hear
@ Hans 1
"Shut up!"
Really?
I re-read what I wrote and can't see why you are objecting so much.
All of the examples you give indicate either an adverse medical reaction to the drug or that the taking of the drugs triggered an underlying condition in the victim. Neither scenario describes how the drug use caused depression.
I'm not being unsympathetic, I've had my own share of experience in these matters not to judge lightly.
For example, people I've known react differently on mushrooms based on their attitude to life, which is usually based on their experiences, which in turn is usually based on how they deal with internal problems.
For example, if someone who internalizes all their problems and just buries them took hallucinogenics I would bet my left testicle that they would not cope anywhere near as well as someone who faces their problems and tries to create a positive outcome from the experience.
People also get so carried away with the feelings the drugs bring that they do not notice their slide into becoming a low functioning human, often reacting to events with a heightened emotional response due to the drugs, which can create situations that become increasingly challenging to deal with (including their inability to correct their own behavior).
Drug abuse amplifies personality traits and can trigger psychotic breaks, but they are not typically the root cause. There may well be exceptions, there usually are, so feel free to correct my understanding if you feel it is incorrect (backed up with a few facts would be more helpful than 'shut up' though, just a thought!)
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Thursday 14th August 2014 12:22 GMT fruitoftheloon
Re: Very sad to hear
Sir Runcible,
on a related note, I very much share your reasoning on what drugs can do, knowing my brain very well as I do, and the fact that it is quite different to the norm - the whole Autism thing, I came to the conclusion long ago that any drug more 'lively' than alcohol would be a very not good idea.
Several aeons ago I asked my Shrunk du jour what the effect on my overall mental health was likely to be of test-driving some commonly available stimulants/drugs, in short his answer was "I REALLY wouldn't do that if I were you".
Many thanks for sharing your thoughts, have one on me!!
J
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Tuesday 12th August 2014 16:42 GMT Red Bren
Demons, Drugs and Genius
@Bullseyed
Are you assuming that mental illness is a result of drug use? How much drug use is an attempt to self-medicate? How much artistic genius is driven by mental illness or drugs and what would be lost without those drivers?
I'm going to make an assumption you don't take drugs, or suffer mental illness. I'm also assuming you're not a world renowned comedian, musician, author or artist. That's not to denigrate whatever it is you do, or suggest you're not good at it. Like me, I suspect you do a job that's necessary, but probably won't cause the world to mourn our eventual passing. But I celebrate the fact there have been geniuses like Williams or Cobain because they add colour and meaning to the human condition, regardless of what gave them their inspiration.
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Tuesday 12th August 2014 21:02 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Very sad to hear
I discovered drugs (amphetamines and alcohol) at age 18.
I discovered depression at age 14, maybe earlier.
The docs eventually put me on phenobarb to treat my astounding tension-caused migraine headaches, caused by my depression at that age. I used to come home from school and curl up in a ball on the couch with a pillow over my head, and not be able to take light or noise due to the incredible pounding in my head, several times a week. No medical cause every found, just the stress of my vast childhood depression.
You are confusing cause and effect, and trying to sound high and mighty about other's suffering while doing it.
FUCK YOU. VERY MUCH.
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Biting the hand that feeds IT
