back to article Murder accused DIDN'T ask Siri 'how to hide my roommate'

Florida newspaper The Gainsville Sun reports that the accused in a murder case is alleged to have used his iPhone to search for ways to dispose of a body. Yet all is not what it seems. The Alachua County Criminal Justice Center is currently hearing a case involving the death of Christian Aguilar in September 2012. In testimony …

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  1. Ralph B

    Aiding and Abetting?

    > Evidence was also tendered to the effect that the answers to Bravo's query included suggestions about swamps and reservoirs being fine places to hide a roommate.

    Sounds as if Siri (or its human keepers) should also be arrested for aiding and abetting in this crime.

    Given recent precedence one might have expected Siri to tip off the authorities in cases like this. (Maybe it did?)

    1. lurker

      Re: Aiding and Abetting?

      The problem with a tip-off for something like that is that for every actual murderer grassed up, there would be a dozen wannabe crime novelists and fifty people with ghoulish imaginations who were simply bored and/or curious.

      1. Evil Auditor Silver badge

        Re: Aiding and Abetting?

        ...wannabe crime novelists and fifty people with ghoulish imaginations...

        Shoot 'em all! I thought current custom was to at least ban them from flying?

    2. The Man Who Fell To Earth Silver badge
      Boffin

      Fake

      Didn't happen.

      http://www.gainesville.com/article/20140813/ARTICLES/140819792/1002/news?Title=Media-mistake-goes-viral-Pedro-Bravo-did-not-use-Siri-to-search-for-spots-to-hide-a-body

      1. Hud Dunlap
        Thumb Up

        @ the man who feel to earth

        Upvote for showing once again that you can not trust the media for accuracy in criminal cases.

        1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

          Re: @ the man who feel to earth

          Sounds like a remake of that movie with Louis de Funès The Gazebo where he tries to get rid of a very hard-to-get-rid-of body.

          1. Someone Else Silver badge

            @ Destroy All Monsters -- Re: @ the man who feel to earth

            Did this guy never see Fargo?

            1. Oninoshiko

              Re: @ Destroy All Monsters -- @ the man who feel to earth

              As a point of fact, that would better tell you how NOT to hide a body, because, as I recall, the miscrants end up propperly cuffed in Fargo(1996).

              "So that was Mrs. Lundegaard on the floor in there. And I guess that was your accomplice in the wood chipper. And those three people in Brainerd. And for what? For a little bit of money. There's more to life than a little money, you know. Don'tcha know that? And here ya are, and it's a beautiful day. Well. I just don't understand it."

              (I think I love every line Frances McDormand has in that movie)

  2. Arachnoid

    No detracting from the evidence but.............

    "Logs also showed an app that switched on the phone's flash to use as a torch ran at the time it is alleged Bravo hid Aguilar's body."

    Whoa thats some time log peoples mobiles are keeping and just how do you dig a hole whilst holding a phone Siri?

    1. heyrick Silver badge

      Re: No detracting from the evidence but.............

      If the phone hadn't been switched off (and maybe if it has?), there seems to be something akin to dmsg that records all sorts of events and their status. I would imagine "flashlight app started" followed by something about "hardware led active" would be among the entries.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: No detracting from the evidence but.............

      I read somewhere that Microsoft, on Windows Phone 8, ranks the popularity of apps in the store not only by downloads but also by how often they're executed and whether or not they're pinned onto the start screen.

      I'm sure that if Microsoft has the tech to do that, so do the others.

  3. DrXym

    I'm more impressed

    By the fact that the phone logged the light was turned on and off and for investigators went into the phone and found that information. If there is a moral here (other than don't kill people), it's probably to be to turn the ring volume down low on your phone and leave it at home when you're out disposing of the corpse. The low volume is just in case you have to explain why you didn't answer an incoming call.

    1. MacroRodent
      Holmes

      Re: I'm more impressed

      By the fact that the phone logged the light was turned on and off and for investigators went into the phone and found that information.

      I wonder why on earth would the phone log things like that? Just because it can? Some developer has not thought through all the consequences.

      The low volume is just in case you have to explain why you didn't answer an incoming call.

      My explanation for not answering is usually that the battery was flat and I left the phone hooked to the charger.... but I suspect that this event too would be logged in iPhone (I have a Lumia instead - I wonder how many details that one logs).

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: I'm more impressed

        > My explanation for not answering is usually that the battery was flat and I left the phone hooked to the charger

        Mine is "Sorry, I was busy disposing of a body".

        Cry wolf too many times and...

      2. glen waverley
        Big Brother

        Re: I'm more impressed

        Re comment. " My explanation for not answering is usually that the battery was flat and I left the phone hooked to the charger.... but I suspect that this event too would be logged in iPhone"

        There was a high profile murder case in Oz recently where a vital piece of evidence was that a smart phone ( can't be arsed looking up what sort) was hooked up to a charger in the wee hours of the morning. So it seems it is logged.

      3. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
        WTF?

        Re: I'm more impressed

        "I wonder why on earth would the phone log things like that? Just because it can? Some developer has not thought through all the consequences."

        I just updated some apps on my Galaxy S2. It failed. Not enough storage. Loads of "SD" space and and an installed SD card, but almost no main storage. After deleting lots of smallish non-essential files and generally wandering all over the file system I came across 1.3GB of log files, mainly dmesg files archived by date. 1.3GB?!?!?! WTF?!?!?!

        And yes, there is all sorts of crap being logged.

    2. 45RPM Silver badge

      Re: I'm more impressed

      You have a devious mind sir. Or is the voice of experience speaking?

    3. Marvin O'Gravel Balloon Face

      Re: I'm more impressed

      Personally, I always use a good old fashioned torch when burying a body.

      1. Alex McDonald 1
        Holmes

        Re: I'm more impressed

        Personally, I always use a good old fashioned torch when burying a body.

        I use a spade. Much faster.

        1. Fraser Innes

          Re: I'm more impressed

          Cheers chap,

          You owe me a new keyboard :-)

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I'm more impressed

      > turn the ring volume down low on your phone and leave it at home

      In order of preference:

      1. If you have a conspirator who is clean, give it to him and have him do your normal daily routine with it (go shopping, to the gym, whatever).

      2. What you suggest, unless it would be very uncharacteristic of you to leave it home like that.

      3. Pull out the battery (if it's not removable you're fucked) so that it "loses coverage" without performing a proper sign-off.

      1. Loyal Commenter Silver badge

        Re: I'm more impressed

        3. Pull out the battery (if it's not removable you're fucked) so that it "loses coverage" without performing a proper sign-off.

        If the battery is not removable, place the phone inside a microwave oven (switched off), or other faraday cage, to force loss of connection to the network. If microwaves at 850W can't get out, the couple of watts your phone puts out won't either.

        1. brooxta

          Re: I'm more impressed

          Probably best not to turn the microwave on, unless you want to burn your phone... but that usually means something different.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: I'm more impressed

          > place the phone inside a microwave oven (switched off), or other faraday cage, to force loss of connection to the network.

          Well of course if you switch it off it's going to disconnect, no need for a microwave oven there!

          Ok, joking aside, I've tried this, and it still gets a signal just fine (GSM and Wifi).

        3. d3rrial

          Re: I'm more impressed

          @Loyal Commenter

          I'd say fridge works better than a microwave: Tho most of the body of a microwave is metallic, the glass-window is not, it only has a metallic mesh in it, and if I remember correctly the mesh is only supposed to hold back electromagnetic waves that are specific to that microwave, not cell phones.

          Alternatively you could probably put it in a microwave and put the microwave into a fridge... ;)

      2. This post has been deleted by its author

        1. Voland's right hand Silver badge

          Re: I'm more impressed

          If your TV is one of the new really smart ones with a camera (as Intel is proposing) leaving it on may not be such a good idea.

          Face it - we are approaching the total surveilance sosciety, next thing we will be sending the marks back in time where a young looper will be waiting for the candidate dead body with a blunderbuss.

    5. John H Woods Silver badge

      Re: I'm more impressed

      Well, I upvoted. And I've also added DrXym to my "NEVER DOWNVOTE" list.

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Low volume to explain why you didn't answer?

      How about "I didn't answer because I was in bed"? I'm assuming that body hiding is something best done at an hour when the largest percentage of people will be in bed, like say 3-4am. If someone calls me then, I'm not even looking at my phone to see who it is, I'll reach over and silence the ring, and go back to sleep. If someone died, they'll still be dead in the morning.

      1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: Low volume to explain why you didn't answer?

        "I'll reach over and silence the ring, and go back to sleep. If someone died, they'll still be dead in the morning."

        4:30am "Hi Mr Brown, this is the paramedic with your father..." tends to wake you up rather quickly.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Coat

    Got it all wrong...

    ...should of phrased it...my room mate is missing and I think "Dave" may of killed them, where is the most likely place he would of dumped the body to avoid it being found.

    1. Alfred 2

      Re: Got it all wrong...

      Easiest might have been, 'I'm writing a story and I need the murderer to get rid of a body where the plods won't find it ..."

      I am in the middle of writing a story, and ...

      Who's that at the door and why are there all those flashing lights?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Got it all wrong...

      HAVE, dammit. HAVE!

    3. 's water music

      Re: Got it all wrong...

      ...should of phrased it...my room mate is missing and I think "Dave" may of killed them, where is the most likely place he would of dumped the body to avoid it being found.

      At least Siri would probably provide an answer rather than getting bogged down with grandma criticism.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Got it all wrong...

      Siri Response: Have you tried looking for the body on Windows Phone Store? Nobody ever looks there.

  5. TheresaJayne

    of course that response is a know Siri Easter egg, along with "open the pod bay doors hal" although for some reason they removed the "what is the ultimate answer" easter egg.

  6. lansalot

    ..

    .. he sounds like a right genius.

    Hope the feds checked his instagram - probably a filtered pic of him grinning next to the body... :(

  7. jake Silver badge

    Siri ...

    ... how do I prove I'm a brain-dead consumer?

    1. Crisp

      Re: Siri ...

      lmgtfy

    2. Matt Bryant Silver badge
      Joke

      Re: Jake Re: Siri ...

      I'm sure it's just an urban myth that the most common Siri request is "Siri, how do I get a girlfriend?"

  8. Tenacal

    "Verizon, Bravo's carrier at the time of the Aguilar's death, has provided information about his phone's whereabouts that the accused him at the location the deceased's body was found. But Bravo's lawyers have asked that evidence not be shown to the jury, arguing that Verizon hasn't properly explained how it obtained and prepared the data."

    It's a great system at work that allows valid evidence to be ignored.

    Phone Location tracking has reportedly been used in other cases to prove that individuals were at certain areas (either agreeing or disagreeing a claim). Asking for evidence to be omitted because of a lack of technical detail casts a really bad shadow over your defence. I could see it being a valid argument in the case of brand new technology that hasn't been verified as accurate but this sort of thing has been around for a while now.

    1. A K Stiles
      Trollface

      indeed - how has someone on the prosecuting team not muttered the words 'triangulation' and 'phone masts' ?

      Or maybe they're hoping that it's a log from his apple maps app so can't be considered accurate evidence...

      1. Roger Varley

        Surely all that proves is that the phone was in a specific location at a specific time. It proves nothing about whose possesion it was in?

        1. The Mole

          Indeed, but it provides evidence of increased likelyhood that the owner (who hasn't reported it stolen) is likely to have been there along with the phone. If the owner wasn't with the phone then they'd be expected to give evidence in their testimony of why the phone wasn't in their possession and apparently wondering round the city - if it was with a friend who, if it was stolen then how did they then get it back again.

        2. Tenacal

          @Roger

          Correct, it couldn't be considered solid evidence in a stand alone manner, but neither does a phone's Flashlight being turned on at a specific time. Try and convict someone on those two facts alone and you'll be laughed out of court.

          It does, however, indicate that the phone was present at the burial site at a specific time. As the phone was later found to be in his possession (otherwise they could not have looked through the phone logs to discover Flashlight timestamps) then it would appear that the phone was not stolen.

          If he's claiming that he did not visit that area then either: a) he's lying; b) someone else took his phone and went there themselves before returning the phone; c) the phone moved there of its own accord.

          @A Non e-mouse

          Fair point, it's not been proven to be correct. However, Verizon will have been tracking phones for a number of years. I don't know if they have ever been called to submit their data in court before but other companies have been. While copyright undoubtedly prevents their methods being identical it is doubtful that their whole tracking system is wrong.

    2. A Non e-mouse Silver badge

      It's a great system at work that allows valid evidence to be ignored.

      Isn't the point here that the lawyer wants to check that the evidence is valid? After all, it's not as if evidence has ever been made up...

  9. alain williams Silver badge

    I can see the start of a new game ...

    asking Siri outrageous questions:

    * what is the nearest bank that I can rob ?

    * where is my nearest drug dealer ?

    * how can I transfer money to ISIS ?

    Points awarded on how funny the replies are; a bonus if the cops want to know why you are asking the questions.

    1. Marcus Aurelius

      Extra Bonus points are awarded

      ...if through asking such questions by using someone elses phone you can get their house trashed by a SWAT team.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    At least he apparently didn't use Apple's Maps. Otherwise the swamp might well have turned out to look like a desert....

    1. James O'Shea

      "At least he apparently didn't use Apple's Maps. Otherwise the swamp might well have turned out to look like a desert...."

      Sigh.

      1 the Apple Maps joke is getting old. And Apple Maps _can_ find the way to Raiford quite well. i suspect that m'man is going to be spending a lot of time in a fine state-run establishment there.

      2 He's in _Florida_. Only an idiot needs a map to find a swamp or a canal or some other location where it would be easy to get rid of a body. All he'd need to do would be to move in a straight line for a bit, he'd find one. There's a north-south, and fairly small, canal about three-quarters of a mile from me. That one dead-ends into a east-west, and much bigger, canal about a mile south. And _that_ one empties into the Intercoastal Waterway a few miles east. The Intercoastal is deep and wide and suitably weighted bodies won't be easily found. But there's no need to go that far, they just recently found a car in a canal, after nine years... <http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2599207/Missing-mans-car-NINE-YEARS-later-canal-near-Florida-home-skeletal-remains-inside.html> It's hard to find stuff in canals around here...

      3 He's in _FLORIDA_. If there's a body of water or a swamp in the vicinity, there's a gator, or two, or more, in the vicinity. (As long as it's not salt water, of course. Gators don't like salt water, and while crocs do, there aren't many crocs north of St Lucie County. Mostly American crocs live in Dade, in fact.) Every ever so often there are 'news' stories about people who've forgotten this, and walk their dogs too close to the canal and... oops. Buh-bye, Fluffy. Or who go diving in golf course water traps looking for golf balls and finding Something Else. <http://www.witn.com/home/headlines/Alligator-Eats-Dog-In-Jacksonville-216753881.html> <http://on.aol.com/video/golf-course-staffer-bitten-by-alligator-518340462> And then there are the snapping turtles and the alligator gars and whatnot. They'll usually get rid of the evidence fairly quickly. Getting rid of a body in Florida is... trivial. It ain't like England, where the worst danger is the odd rabid Tory.

      However, it seems that this lad really _is_ an idiot. He took his cell phone with him when getting rid of a body. He actually used the cell phone while doing this. And he's hired the most inept lawyers in Florida to defend him. Perhaps he's going to try a 'diminished capacity' defence...

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