back to article Zippy one-liners, broken promises: Doctor Who on the Orient Express

THIS IS A POST-UK-BROADCAST REVIEW – THERE WILL BE SPOILERS! Brid-Aine says: Finally, someone has remembered that Doctor Who is supposed to be fun and that someone is James Mathieson, guest writer of Mummy on the Orient Express. It has to be said that neither that title nor the trailer last week filled me with great hopes for …

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  1. Aqua Marina

    Are you my mummy?

    line of the episode for me.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Are you my mummy?

      Line of the series. Not going to be beaten (unless Clara can be persuaded to say "I'm from the North. Lots of planets have a North" or similar, at some stage).

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Are you my mummy?

      Without Jenna Coleman the series would have been unwatchable, though the blame lies squarely on the writing, the writers seemingly wanting more Soap Opera than Dr Who.

      Time to get back to the basics, Dr Who should be battling space aliens and megomaniac bad guys, his side kick is just that, a side kick and expendable and should not be The Story.

      It might appeal to the U.S. market but I want the raw Dr Who back not the 'I'm so in touch with my emotions and feminine side' one that we have now.

      The rot started with the over emotional Tennant when the bad guy persona of Eccleston was so much better, if you don't believe me ask women who watch Dr Who which one was their favourite?

      They all say Tennant, they all love him, he's in touch wih himself, he's nice etc etc. Proof enough that Dr Who is turning into a wuss and the series into mush.

      1. Peter2 Silver badge

        Re: Are you my mummy?

        If anything, I think the way to go would be to have half a dozen or so companions. Then kill at least a couple off semi frequently and pick up new ones along the way to replace the others.

        Battlestar Galactica got this right. When a major character then was shot (ie Adama at the end of the first series iirc) then when the doctor said that he's critical and might not make it, there was actually some dramatic impact.

        With two major characters, neither is going to die and everybody knows it. In this episode I doubt that anybody thought that the Doctor was actually going to die when the Zombie was closing in on him, which reduces the dramatic element to about zero.

        1. illiad

          Re: Are you my mummy?

          its not that 'he may die' - ANY who fan knows that!!!

          its the way he manipulated the 'emotional state' of the 'victim' to solve the case...

          pay more attention!!! :)

      2. ps2os2

        Re: Are you my mummy?

        The new Doctor is BORING. Time to regenerate and pick a Dr Who for the fans not for some unknown audience test subject matters.

  2. Jyve

    Clara must go

    I don't get why they feel Dr Who has to be turned into a pseudo rom-com, but her presence is a detriment to every story. I want to watch Sci-Fi with a time traveling alien who uses smarts (and a /bit/ of luck) to fix things than a mopey sidekick who's fretting about having a boyfriend and "oh look, an adventure to distract me, but I'm going to chew my bottom lip until everything is fixed through some odd coincidence of events that being there doesn't really impact much, and I've got to keep making him feel guilty about something"

    Capaldi's a great actor but the stories so far have been absolute dross, and Clara being there isn't helping.

    1. h3

      Re: Clara must go

      Yep they should have got rid and had that mechanic as the next companion for a bit.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Clara must go

      I've got no problem wirh Clara - I have a problem with the whole Doctor's assistent fancies some other twat. It's like the Doctor's a nutty DJ from the 70s and his assistent needs a geezer who'll slap him if he gets pervy.

  3. chriswakey

    Two tips of the hat to the mighty Tom

    Obviously the jelly babies, but the very brief impersonation by Capaldi when mentioning the mummy.

  4. heyrick Silver badge

    ...

    I'm wondering, are the stories bad or is Capaldi just not suited to the role? He does a great job of "sarcastic slightly-bonkers irritated bloke", but... look back at previous Doctors. Isn't this going, well, wrong?

    As for Clara. Oh my God. She was so great as The Impossible Girl. But now, she's just so....<searches for adjective; can't find one: Abort, Retry, Ignore?>

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: ...

      "As for Clara. Oh my God. She was so great as The Impossible Girl. But now, she's just so....<searches for adjective; can't find one: Abort, Retry, Ignore?>"

      How about "incoherent"? Her character simply doesn't make any sense any more. The series needs a script editor who has a grasp of characterisation and can ensure that it's reasonably consistent from writer to writer. Moffet clearly isn't it.

      In fact, I suspect that he is actually the problem here, bending Clara's character in preparation for a final "Trial of the Doctor" episode/special where, OMG! Clara has to testify whether he is a "good man" or not. Damn whether it makes sense or not in the context of the character's history.

      The new series has suffered repeatedly under "story arcs" that no nothing but interfere with the smooth development of the characters, but this is probably the worst case of it (although I might argue that the execrable "Angels Take Manhattan" and the nonsensical end of Rory and Amy's parts was actually worse, but at least it was over in one truly terrible episode).

      I liked this episode but perhaps that's just in comparison with last week's terrible space egg crap.

    2. Wibble

      Re: ...

      > The Impossible Girl

      Odd how the Impossible Girl story line went OK, probably as it was a strong enough story to paper over the cracks underlying the Clara character. Sassy becomes downright annoying.

      Now it's painful. Almost like there's a petulant teenager as a companion. Which is just plain odd as it doesn't suit the new doctor at all. Would work better with a more Donna-like character. Or Frank Skinner!

      1. Vulch

        Re: ...

        "Would work better with a more Donna-like character"

        This. Much, much better.

        1. Kristian Walsh Silver badge

          Re: ...

          I think by "Donna-like", you mean "believable". Donna (Catherine Tate) remains one of my favourite characters from the new show, simply because she was written as a character who had real dreams, motivations, worries, and weaknesses.

          The Clara character is none of these. There are some episodes where the disposable monster of the week is given more backstory.

          Even without the plot-driven personality disorders, the Clara character has never been properly anchored anywhere, physically or emotionally; she's just "generic cute but sassy female supporting character", with no motives, no beliefs, no background, and most importantly, no flaws in that perfect character. Why should I care about this person? - they'll get on fine whether I care or not.

          If this were some half-baked fan fiction (and I fear the gap is closing), you could say that she's a Mary Sue http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue

  5. Chris G

    Shades of the King

    So the train was a Blaine after all.

    1. Kane
      Thumb Up

      Re: Shades of the King

      Blaine is a pain, and that is the truth.

  6. Arnold Lieberman

    Was that an Oric 1 on the table?

    In the lab?

    1. Andy Roid McUser

      Re: Was that an Oric 1 on the table?

      Good spot. It was indeed an Oric-1. Now I'm going to be playing spot the classic computer tech in next weeks episode.

  7. bex

    I don't get it

    Dr Who got too silly and gave up with making any sense by the end of Tennant's incarnation. SF is supposed to mean fiction not fantasy

    The every episode has to be an extravaganza turned me right off.

    1. Mister35mm

      Re: I don't get it

      It's turning into 'Harry potter in space'...

      It's a rip off, A bit like Marvel's "Agent's of Shield" which is a rip-off of Torchwood. Go on! Tell me I'm wrong!

      Stephen

      G7VFY

  8. Blarkon

    Last reviewer missed the Tom Baker impression

    Capaldi was doing Tom Baker's voice as the other side of the conversation where he was working things out for himself.

  9. Suricou Raven

    Monster was alright.

    It kept you guessing.

    I guessed wrong, and thought until the end that it was some sort of telepathic parasite. When it was about to kill the professor and he took his glasses off, I was expecting his final words to be a shocked declaration that the mummy was still in focus - thus showing that he wasn't seeing it with his eyes.

    I notice the Doctor being very calm and unaffected by the lack of air at the end. Either the writers just wanted to show him still remaining in control under pressure, or they remembered that his alien physiology has already been established as capable of surviving for a short time in vacuum.

    1. Craig Chambers

      Re: Monster was alright.

      The Doctor and Clara carried on a conversation while everyone else around them started to choke immediately (as if all the air in the carriage had outgassed as soon as depressurisation commenced). Only once Clara had spoken two whole sentences did she show any signs of succumbing.

      That was the low point for me.

  10. WonkoTheSane
    Headmaster

    Quote wrong?

    I could have sworn the Doctor said "It's the baggage car, but thanks for _lying_".

  11. We're all in it together

    We caught up with the Mummy

    Well thanks for joining us Mummy

    "It's a pleasure to be here!"

    Tell us a bit more about this weeks episode..

    "Well I play a scary sort of character desperately trying to escape a script"

    And how do you feel you faired?

    "Got paid didn't I?"

  12. A Non e-mouse Silver badge

    Assistants

    I'm warming to Capaldi as the Doctor. I think he could be a great doctor. But Clara and the stories (which just seem to revolve around Clara in some random way) just let the whole thing down. They need an assistant who isn't some cutesy pretty thing who just adds eye candy and adds no value to the stories about the Doctor (yes, Doctor Who is supposed to be about the Doctor!).

    Imagine the fireworks if they had a strong character like Donna with the Capaldi Doctor. Donna acted as the Doctor's moral compass and wasn't afraid to stand up to him. The moral decisions about the moon in the last episode or lying to the woman about to die in this episode? A Donna-like character would have had a field day arguing with the Doctor over them.

    The mechanic could also be a great 2nd assistant: Helping the Doctor to maintain the Tardis and help track Gus down too. (Hey, the mechanic could even *BE* Gus!)

    1. heyrick Silver badge

      Re: Assistants

      "A Donna-like character would have had a field day arguing with the Doctor over them." - but are the current scriptwriters capable of writing that sort of dialogue? Remember, this series began with what might be the most cringeworthy phone call in recent TV history.

  13. A Non e-mouse Silver badge
    WTF?

    Ending

    Last night's ending was....*sigh*

    The writers appeared to have built up to a crescendo: The Tardis was off-limits and the air was being removed from the train. Then the writers realised that they only had 30 seconds of the episode left, so they cut to the end with the Doctor saying: "Yeah, I saved everyone".

    A textbook example of an anti-climax.

    1. Zog_but_not_the_first

      Re: Ending

      Look on the bright side. No screwdriver was employed.

      Speaking of which, Frankie Boyle made me laugh when he revealed that Doctor Who was a stereotypical Scotsman:

      An old man with a screwdriver who drags young women into a phone box. "I'm taking you back to the 1970s".

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Ending

        "No screwdriver was employed."

        Not at the end. But it was there earlier in the episode, and (at the time) it appeared to not work very well.

        The sonic screwdriver not working right was actually on someone's wishlist round here a week or two back.

        Maybe said person knows something we don't...

    2. Jedit Silver badge
      Alien

      "A textbook example of an anti-climax."

      Cutting to the beach was interesting, actually. The Doctor says he saved everyone, but not having seen it we don't know if he was telling the truth or not. He could have saved only Clara and Perkins, and lied to Clara about it so she wouldn't leave.

  14. SleepyJohn
    Unhappy

    Not exactly a ringing endorsement from these three

    Well, none of this has tempted me to start watching again. I shall continue to sit and look at my cat; which thankfully does not display the inanity of one from Cheshire, or Clara.

  15. Banksy

    Dear Doctor,

    Since no-one else likes Clara could you drop her off at my house when you're finished with her?

    Cheers.

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Stupid reviews

    "A jelly baby last made its appearance in Who under a Thatcher Government."

    Yeah Gavin. Thats so correct and utterly makes your review hold up.

    The 8th Doctor, under Major's government in 1996 also was partial to Jelly Babies. Lets pretend you know what you are talking about though eh?

    1. AlexS
      Holmes

      Re: Stupid reviews

      Also references to 10th and 11th Doctor.

      I don't know what I'm taking about either I just use google:

      http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Jelly_baby

  17. mr.K
    WTF?

    Idealism vs pragmatism

    Kind of weird that in the last episode the right choice was the ignore the wish of an entire planet and put them all at great risk on the long shot that some unknown giant space birdie wouldn't go full blown toddler on the nearest gravitational well. All because the right choice on TV is always "doing the right thing", like in the moral dilemmas "Could you kill one guy if it was the only way to save a planet." and if you just say no then it will magically work out anyway.* While in this episode the conclusion is: "Sometimes the choices you have are bad ones, and you still have to choose."

    It would have made a little sense if at least this was an argument between Clara and the Doctor, but it isn't, he endorsed her choice on the moon. And anyway, I do not think any characters opinion of reality should affect said reality, but in this world it clearly does. Stick to idealism: It works out. Stick to pragmatism: It works out.

    Overall a watchable episode though. I just wish the new doctor had some consistency in this new dark persona of his.

    *I am so glad TV-writers are not doctors doing triage.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Pint

      @mr.K

      "Kind of weird that in the last episode the right choice was the ignore the wish of an entire planet and put them all at great risk on the long shot that some unknown giant space birdie wouldn't go full blown toddler on the nearest gravitational well."

      Not only that, but it looks to me as if the writers are now also re-using plots from the past. Worse yet: the recent past. Because the "impossible choice" was already done in the episode The Beast Below.

      An episode I actually enjoyed because of the (small) plot twist. The British nation now lives on a spaceship with a "star whale" below them to drive / power it. Every once in a while they learn about the (ugly) truth of their spaceship (that they're actually torturing a rather magnificent creature) and are given a choice: release the creature or forget all about the issue at hand. And because it is implied that releasing the creature would also mean the destruction of the spaceship the choice is more or less already made.

      Until Amy Pond gets to make the decision... again..

      Lets see; who was the writer of that episode... Oh right; Steven Moffat again.

      1. Deryk Barker

        Re: @mr.K

        I just rewatched the end of series 5 - the Pandorica story - and right at the end, as Amy and Rory, just-married, enter the TARDIS, the phone rings...

        And during the conversation the Doctor says "no I get that it's important: an Egyptian godess loose on the Orient Express, in space".

        I have to say I sometimes wonder how far in advance "the Moff" plans. Did he have the entire River Song saga in his mind when he wrote Silence in the Library, for example?

        Anyway, just thought i'd mention it.

  18. graeme leggett Silver badge

    Well received in some quarters

    On Gallifreybase (other fandom websites are available) 80% of those contributing to poll (1900 votes) placed it as "8 It's certainly worthy of very high praise!" or better, 90% as "7. Well above average" or better.

    I think the 12 giving it the lowest rating "1 I'd rather listen to a tape loop of leaf blower noise" might be the fewest I've seen for that rating recently.

  19. ukgnome

    balanced view on the reg?

    Has Brid taken the comments to heart as that review seems more balanced.

  20. Rottenham

    So Far So Bad

    So far, the scripts and casting have been so gaggingly multicultural it has been a distraction. I actually looked up the demographics of England to see if I was missing something. Worse, the lite in Clara's eyes is long gone. She was one of the prettiest girls in the world. Now she's just another young girl with makeup on.

    Now you suggest a new writer is going to fix this show? I doubt it, but I'll take a look and see.

    1. Francis Boyle Silver badge

      And in news just in

      Moffat has announced plans to address your concerns. All writers have been informed that future episodes must take place in Midsomer. This will of course mean toning down the explosions but on the other hand the number of deaths per episode can be cranked up in compensation. When asked about the plausibility of having Midsomer invaded by aliens every other episode Moffat's only response was a blank stare.

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Too many simple faults....

    As well as (if that wasn't enough) all the bad dialogue and bad plotting already discussed at length above, even the simple things aren't being thought through.

    For example, as the Doctor and Clara come out of the baggage car, they stop and talk to the train captain bloke. And as they do so, at least two more couples come out through the baggage car door behind them? Where have they come from? And if the answer is "the front part of the train", why the hell is the baggage car in the middle?

    As the train 'disguise' is removed and the laboratory revealed, most of the passengers disappear (as they are "hard-light holograms") while the remaining passengers are revealed to be experts brought together to try to solve the case. And none of these experts is expert enough to be able to tell a hologram from a real person? That probably explains why none of them contributed to solving the case of the mummy, only standing meekly and silently in the background whilst the doctor did his thing.

    It would have been more appropriate to simply have them as passengers, their lives being the moral blackmail that Gus puts the Doctor under.

    And why exactly is the ancient soldier a mummy? Was he supposed to be an ancient Egyptian soldier? Aaaaggh! Bring back the Pyramids of Mars - much better.

    1. illiad

      Re: Too many simple faults....

      "none of these experts is expert enough to be able to tell a hologram from a real person"

      you don't think they KNEW, and were just 'playing along' ??? LOL

      Have you ever seen 'experts' fighting each other for a solution??? how juvenile.... no they observe, discuss, etc...

      if you dont know what they are watching, you must be dumb...

      if the 'mummy' looked just a plain soldier, he would be ignored!!!

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Too many simple faults....

        > "none of these experts is expert enough to be able to tell a hologram from a real person"

        > you don't think they KNEW, and were just 'playing along' ??? LOL

        Possibly. Would have made a nice plot twist - shame the writer didn't see fit to include it then.

        > Have you ever seen 'experts' fighting each other for a solution??? how juvenile.... no they observe, discuss, etc...

        Who said they had to fight each other?

        > if you dont know what they are watching, you must be dumb...

        Well, speechless at least...

        > if the 'mummy' looked just a plain soldier, he would be ignored!!!

        So, you're saying that the episode needed a gimmick, because a soldier alone wasn't good enough?

  22. Richard Scratcher

    There was one big scary moment for me...

    When it seemed Frank Skinner's character might become a regular cast member.

    :-O

    1. Andrew Moore

      Re: There was one big scary moment for me...

      worse in the pipeline- a cameo from David Baddiel and a villain called 'Statto'

      1. John 62

        Re: There was one big scary moment for me...

        I don't know why I read all this stuff, because I have no interest in actually watching Dr Who, but an appearance from Statto would get me watching!

  23. Dalek Dave

    "A jelly baby last made its appearance in Who under a Thatcher Government."

    Er....Really?

    You may want to check that out.

    Sylvester McCoy enjoyed them in the Tardis just before his regeneration, that was 1996.

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