Sign in / up

back to article My HOUSE used to be a PUB: How to save the UK high street

Interesting news on the Blighty high street as Tesco continues to lose market share: now it has fallen behind Amazon as the retailer of choice for the sort of shiny-shiny we buy each other for Crimbo. Fruit and vegetables on display on the shelves of a supermarket Roomy fridge, isn't it? I think we'll put the kids' room here …

COMMENTS

Post your comment
House rules Send corrections
Add to 'My topics' unstar *

Page:

  1. Zog_but_not_the_first
    Holmes

    Parking

    And parking. I've made a real effort to use town centre shops but the ball-ache of parking, paying through the nose and finding that the shops don't "keep everything in stock these days" drives me back online.

    Scrape off the double yellow lines, enforce a mandatory 20mph speed limit in the town centre and let's see what happens.

    16 3 Reply
    1. Naughtyhorse
      Reply Icon

      Re:20 mph in town

      So you want cars in town to run 30% faster?

      you have my vote :-)

      9 0 Reply
    2. Joe 48
      Reply Icon

      Doing my bit

      I've just purchased a Pub and turned it into a house.

      However, the Pub I purchased was in a lovely remote location in a small village. Unsure how this will help the high street, but I've got a stunning house!! Plus they had a another pub in the village so I still have a watering hole.

      Win win!

      3 0 Reply
      1. rh587
        Reply Icon

        Re: Doing my bit

        The pub (a Free House) in our local village closed, primarily because the owners had managed to hack off pretty much everyone within a 5 mile radius, despite doing superb food. They desperately tried to get planning permission to convert to residential but were refused. After about 5 years it reopened, with the wildly successful young bartender from the pub in the next village behind the bar. He created a great atmosphere and people flooded in.

        After 6 months his place was taken by the old couple - turns out he hadn't taken it over, they'd just paid him a pretty penny to "consult" for 6 months and get it running into a going concern for them.

        Having struggled on for 12 months they're now closing down. Again. Because she's a racist, homophobic harpie and he has the personality of a sponge They were idiots not to sell it 12 months ago as a profitable going concern. Instead they've taken a resurrected pub and run it into the ground.

        I am eternally grateful to the planners for refusing them planning permission to convert the property. Once that stops being a pub and becomes a house it will never go back. But if that couple finally get a clue and flock off, we might actually get a pub worth drinking in. Were it not for the planners, the village would be solely comprised of houses and the church. At least we still have a pub. On and Off.

        The village shop has been converted - because there's a big Tesco barely 2 miles away, so that was never going to remain sustainable. But there's no other pub - just that one.

        It's sustainable and there's a market and demand for it - we would support it, except the owners are not cut out for the pub trade. Or indeed any sort of customer-facing retail position anywhere.

        10 0 Reply
        1. Joe 48
          Reply Icon

          Re: Doing my bit

          Had it been the only pub in the village I'd have never purchased it. Not cutting off my nose to spite my face!

          Hope your pub gets resurrected again soon.

          1 0 Reply
  2. EddieD

    Already happening

    A lot of the small shops that adorned the streets about half a mile from the center of Edinburgh have been converted into small flats

    http://tinyurl.com/mzt8s6b

    Follow along that street and see what's happened. 30 years ago they were all shops, then came the department stores, and no-one spoke up them. And now Amazon has come along, and no-one wants to speak up for the department stores.

    7 0 Reply
    1. Aitor 1
      Reply Icon

      Re: Already happening

      Dairy road was.. a bit "rowdy".

      Right now it has improved a lot, and tearing down the distillery and making flats has improved the zone a lot.

      I have some friends living there and it is very nice.

      Also, if you go a bit towrds the coop and not in front of the cemetery, most shops are still open.

      0 0 Reply
    2. ravenviz Silver badge
      Reply Icon
      Facepalm

      Re: Already happening

      Remaining shops:

      Corner coffee shop & takeaway; Chinese takeaway (advertising justeat.co.uk); Chinese travel shop; grocery store specialising in Asian food; hairdressers; photography shop (that does visa and passport photos); pet supplies shop that sells windows (or a window shop that sells pet supplies); Chinese restaurant; estate agents; another takeaway; pub; newsagents; betting shop; kebab shop; another hairdressers.

      And a giant Lidl on the other side of the road where you can't get:

      - hot food

      - a haircut

      - a betting receipt

      - your photo taken

      - a paper

      - drunk

      0 0 Reply
  3. Peter Richardson

    With you on this

    The thought also occurred to me a few years ago. The main obstruction to development and renaissance of town centres appears to be local councils. They are generally full of ancient career councillors who know very little except how to play local politics to keep themselves in their cushy job.

    My own local council seems to think spending £1-2m quid every few years on laying a new surface on the high street will solve the problem. Strangely, it never does. Funnily enough, ridiculous parking charges don't help either.

    They have now resorted to knocking down particularly unpopular or useless buildings to try and stimulate new development, only to find the developers lose interest very quickly when it becomes clear nobody will occupy the new shops, restaurants and other half baked ideas the council has, all firmly rooted in the past.

    23 0 Reply
    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: With you on this

      Having worked for a local council the main problem they seem to have is the crap funding they receive from Government, forcing them to shut stuff like libraries and museums and look at a myriad other routes to pay for the stuff they are expected to provide (parking fees, other fines, business rates), it is one of the only times in my career I have been asked to perform miracles with nothing in an IT department.

      I've since left the UK and I'm working in the Netherlands, my council tax here?, about 200 euros a year, the Government give them the rest.

      Pretty much all the grief we experience in the UK begins and ends in Westminster, and I include a lot of EU regulation in that as well, when you read what the regulations (which in every case we agree to) say most of the time, the actual execution bears no resemblance to the original intent once Whitehall have got their mitts on it and gold plated it into something ridiculous.

      13 7 Reply
      1. Ilmarinen
        Reply Icon

        Re: With you on this

        AC said: "the Government give them the rest" to which I replied:

        "the Government" can only do this by taking other peoples (aka "taxpayers") money - it has none of its own.

        Also, I rather suspect that libraries & museums are a small part of what they spend. More than 50% of my local council spend is paid out in benefits.

        7 3 Reply
        1. Anonymous Coward
          Reply Icon
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: With you on this

          "the Government" can only do this by taking other peoples (aka "taxpayers") money - it has none of its own.

          So you are suggesting Council Tax, and all the other fees are not paid by the "tax payer"?

          All this is doing is shunting the same tax further down the line, benefits included.

          Helps our rulers boast how much lower income tax is in the UK compared to our neighbors.

          2 1 Reply
          1. Richard 81
            Reply Icon

            Re: With you on this

            Just as long as that tax doesn't come from wages/salaries. Those are taxed enough as it is, thank you very much.

            0 1 Reply
            1. fruitoftheloon
              Reply Icon

              @Richard 81 Re: With you on this

              Richard,

              where else can the tax come from, golden pixie dust falling from the sky?

              [IHT] excluded.

              J

              5 0 Reply
      2. Riku
        Reply Icon

        Re: With you on this

        That (EU regulation), is because UK gummint, (both local and national) use it as a revenue generating exercise. By interpreting EU directives rather more rigidly than most other members, it's easier to penalise, criminalise and fine just about anyone for anything. UK councils are so desperate for cash, being shortchanged by the Westminster control-freak, regulations are leveraged as fee-and-fine-paying goldmines.

        All the while the local politicos get to blame ye olde EU whipping boy and be all slopey-shouldered. That's how the Brits end up saying "The French don't have to do this!", because the French (or anyone else), usually enacted it within their local framework.

        2 3 Reply
    2. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: With you on this

      Is your local council Blackpool, by any chance? That sounds very familiar.

      1 0 Reply
      1. Anonymous Coward
        Reply Icon
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: With you on this

        No further South, but they are all in pretty much the same boat, most of them have overspends in millions they will find pretty much impossible to rectify and provide the service they are supposed to.

        Remember going to a meeting with a group of other councils and it was doom and gloom from everyone, one was having a reduction of 2 thirds of it's staff forced on it, and if you want to see their permanent staff cry bitter tears just ask when they last had a pay rise, from anyone outside all you hear is "course the head of the Council is paid stupid money", that may or may not be true but it's certainly not true for most of their staff.

        Was so glad to quit.

        1 0 Reply
        1. FlatSpot
          Reply Icon
          Flame

          Re: With you on this

          Interesting point, however on the flip side I'm currently dealing with a council regarding a persistent and high level of traffic collisions on a single 30m stretch of road. (Using DfT numbers over £300k worth of cost so far, police, damage, ambulances etc)

          You would think it would be pretty easy to resolve but nope, they turned up with a gaggle of 4x "managers", probably in the region of £100k a year in wages alone, one who looked after kerbstones, one who looked after minor rated accidents and another who looked after serious rated accidents and some other hanger-on who fancied a day out as the weather was good.

          They claimed there was no money, and couldn't care less anyway as its not their concern the levels of collisions regardless of the damage to the surrounding area, plus as most road works are contracted out they couldn't do much anyway. Still waiting 12mths later for a couple of bloody signs.

          There is a tremendous amount of dead wood in councils, you don't need a 1-2-1 match of managers to do-ers and having worked in councils before, about 20% of the staff do 80% of the work. If they have worked there for several years then they have normally carved out a nice little number involving doing little except eating cake and drinking tea.

          Privatise the lot of them and have performance related pay, measured on reducing the number of accidents in their area.

          12 2 Reply
          1. Anonymous Coward
            Reply Icon
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: With you on this

            "Privatise the lot of them" - Yeah because that works out sooo well everywhere else it's been tried with public services, will get the same 4 managers but they will be on 100k each and your council tax will increase 4 fold because the first duty is to the shareholders

            8 5 Reply
            1. Squander Two
              Reply Icon

              Re: With you on this

              > "Privatise the lot of them" - Yeah because that works out sooo well everywhere else it's been tried with public services

              Would you rather buy a mobile phone made by Apple or the Post Office?

              3 4 Reply
              1. Frankee Llonnygog
                Reply Icon

                Re: Would you rather buy a mobile phone made by Apple or the Post Office?

                Bakelite model with a rotary dial? Yes!

                1 0 Reply
              2. Anonymous Coward
                Reply Icon
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: With you on this

                Apple make hideously overpriced electronic gadget's, the Royal Mail besides delivering the post actually sell a bewildering range of other products and services, so I fail to see your point, I'm sure Royal Mail has somewhere that will sell you a smartphone but they aren't in the business of doing R&D and manufacturing.

                2 2 Reply
              3. Trigonoceps occipitalis
                Reply Icon

                Re: With you on this

                "Would you rather buy a mobile phone made by Apple or the Post Office?"

                Wow, a real blast from the past - when was the GPO split?

                1 0 Reply
              4. Equitas
                Reply Icon

                Re: With you on this

                Neither, thank you!

                2 0 Reply
              5. Aitor 1
                Reply Icon

                Re: With you on this

                Would you rather pay for cancer treatment in the US or the UK? In the UK NHS will pay it..

                2 1 Reply
          2. Nigel 11
            Reply Icon

            Re: With you on this

            There is a tremendous amount of dead wood in councils, you don't need a 1-2-1 match of managers to do-ers and having worked in councils before, about 20% of the staff do 80% of the work.

            Just like IT in most larger companies then.

            No, I take it back. The councils are models of efficiency, compared to the programmer / manager work ratio!

            3 0 Reply
          3. Riku
            Reply Icon

            Re: With you on this

            Then they'd just ban cars and you'd have a perfect-zero accident rate1

            0 0 Reply
    3. rh587
      Reply Icon

      Re: With you on this

      "My own local council seems to think spending £1-2m quid every few years on laying a new surface on the high street will solve the problem."

      Similar story here - our council spent a vast sum resurfacing the town's large Pay & Display. Two months later, 40% of that tarmac was torn up by the developers who had bought a chunk of it to build fairly crap infill housing.

      As part of the town's redevelopment they also sold a chunk to a new supermarket who have arrived (who won't go anywhere without controlling their own parking). That parking is now ANPRd for customers only. Unlike a different local town (with a more competent council and thriving high street) where the supermarket car park is Pay and Display (with refund on your ticket in store for customers), which means people can use it as general parking if they want. In our town however, it's for the store only, even though it's right next to the high street - they don't want you popping across to the local greengrocer. Barstewards (that's malicious barstewards in the supermarket, incompetent barstewards in the council).

      In this respect our planners failed utterly (compared with their sensible refusal to have our pub converted), allowing the superstore and developers to walk all over them without stipulating a stringent set of conditions like the next town along did (and which has embraced the presence of a supermarket but in a manner that is friendly to the town centre).

      3 0 Reply
    4. TRT Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: With you on this

      Do you live in Watford as well, then?

      0 0 Reply
  4. msknight

    A missed opportunity

    Some carriers don't have what the Post Office has ... namely a high street presence. I believe there is an opportunity for "shops" that represent various couriers and customers can drop off parcels and possibly collect as well, where it is impractical to either have things sent to work, or take yet another day off work for a courier to turn up at home.

    Right now, I've got to organise a parcel to Germany, which Parcel Farce will want three digits of notes for. However, to deal with the other guys, they're going ot have to pick up from premises, and that could get awkward with my employer ... potentially.

    One "shop" can actually represent multiple couriers. Split costs, and all that. Do the paperwork on-line even and just drop it off.

    12 0 Reply
    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: A missed opportunity

      On the other hand near us John Lewis has just bought up two local shops next door to a Waitrose branch, has closed then down and, we believe is turning them into a click'n'collect pickup location. They also bought up and closed the filling station on the other side, closed it and converted it into extra carparking space - and they added the extra touch of appearing to only apply for planning permission after they'd started to demolish the site. Often wonder what local reaction would have been if it was Tesco and not John Lewis doing this!

      3 0 Reply
      1. msknight
        Reply Icon

        Re: A missed opportunity

        I think they need to go beyond this; refrigerated click'n'colect. Would take a "manned" store to pull off something like this. Not even need to visit the supermarket and also no need to mess around with delivery slots and staying at home.

        Regards the John Lewis/Tesco argument ... pass. It will cost them a chunk of money either way, and even in my local village, one of two pubs got messy with planning permission and the council got its way in the end, so people/organisations engaging in building works and paying no heed to planning laws/permission doesn't automatically mean they won't be forced to rebuild what they destroyed, if the decision goes that way.

        0 0 Reply
        1. monkeyfish
          Reply Icon

          Re: A missed opportunity

          They already exist. Last time I had to return something to Amazon I took it to a local newsagent. They charged me a small fee to return it for me, and I got the reassurance that having given it to them, it was 'returned' to Amazon already (i.e. I was not responsible for any shipping loss/damage). Since then the local co-op has started doing it too.

          4 0 Reply
          1. Ol'Peculier
            Reply Icon

            Re: A missed opportunity

            Interesting, I had to return a tripod to Amazon (which came packed diagonally in a huge box) and didn't have to pay anything to the newsagent I dropped it off at.

            I also see that one of the drop locker services is now letting you put stuff into their system for collection by a courier too.

            0 0 Reply
            1. Anonymous Coward
              Reply Icon
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: A missed opportunity

              Yes, there is also the "InPost" company now who have parcel lockers, totally automated. I needed to post a parcel at 2130 on a Sunday. Went to their site, printed off the label, nipped up the road to the local set of lockers and popped it in. Arrived first thing Tuesday morning without any hassle for me at all.

              0 0 Reply
        2. Why Not?
          Reply Icon

          Re: A missed opportunity

          The problem here is that the supermarket disregarding planning permission just points out that they are creating jobs and suddenly planning problems seem to go away.

          0 0 Reply
    2. spib.burfank
      Reply Icon

      Re: A missed opportunity

      " I believe there is an opportunity for "shops" that represent various couriers and customers can drop off parcels and possibly collect as well"

      You mean like Collect+? http://www.collectplus.co.uk

      There's one in my corner shop, another in a nearby petrol station shop. Amazon use them for both deliveries and pickup.

      1 0 Reply
      1. an it guy
        Reply Icon

        Re: A missed opportunity

        hear hear. collect plus has been very handy as well. Not sure about International delivery though having just checked their site.

        on the plus side, their site does load very quickly

        0 0 Reply
      2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        Re: A missed opportunity

        "Amazon use them for both deliveries and pickup."

        I was in Argos yesterday for the first time in a long time and one of the collection points is liveried with a big Ebay logo. The Ebay collection point also has a till, scanner and card reader so I assume you can send stuff back there too, or maybe that was just their own "returns" facility. I didn't ask :)

        0 0 Reply
    3. fruitoftheloon
      Reply Icon

      Re: A missed opportunity

      Msknight,

      there are quite a few orgs that do that, here [in Devon], I can drop a parcel off at my local Co-op etc, they scan the printed [by me] barcode with their 'PayPoint' thingy [I think], then print you a receipt, all very quick and well organised, I don't recall the parcel company that has the gig tho...

      Google is your friend here...

      J

      0 0 Reply
    4. Squander Two
      Reply Icon

      Re: A missed opportunity

      Good to see people trying to plug that particular gap in the market. However, since the Royal Mail is now privatised, and the Royal Mail and Post Office Counters are supposedly separate entities, and the Royal Mail have lost their legally enforced monopoly status (due to persistently awful service), what I would like to see is the Post Office offering us some other choices. Go in with a parcel, have it weighed, have the person behind the counter tell you the different couriers' prices and options.

      2 0 Reply
  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    All towns these days have exactly the same shops (mostly owned by the same group, so there's no real competition) and the only thing you can buy in them is overpriced women's clothing. There's no good reason to try save them. Bring in the bulldozers and put up some houses.

    11 1 Reply
    1. Dr. Mouse
      Reply Icon

      Bring in the bulldozers and put up some houses.

      Why the bulldozers? They shell of the building is similar whether it's for a house or a shop.

      Remodel the inside and a little on the outside and you've got a house. Knocking them down is a huge waste of resources.

      5 0 Reply
      1. AndrueC Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        Or perhaps bring in the bulldozers and create a park/piazza. Give residents somewhere nice to go and socialise and that encourages exercise and helps foster community spirit. Many town centres are just shopping centres so have limited appeal. Turning the shops into houses doesn't add much appeal (or at least only to a handful). I've been saying for a while now that bricks and mortar shopping should be allowed to die back but I think there's an opportunity in a lot of cases for a complete re-think of what a town centre should be.

        6 1 Reply
  6. returnmyjedi

    There would need to be a complete change in planning laws of course. A similar problem faces a village near me that has two pubs, one of which has stood empty for years as they're isn't the population to keep it open. Many have tried to buy it to turn into a house but the parish council refuse to permit a change of usage as they are worried it would change the character of the village. So the character of the village remains as "derelict".

    11 0 Reply
    1. monkeyfish
      Reply Icon

      Interesting, two of our dead pups have since turned into a cafe/b&b and a nursery. Maybe this needs a more top-down approach, since the local laws vary considerably.

      1 0 Reply
      1. Richard 120
        Reply Icon

        Impressive

        I'm amazed they managed to do that with a pair of canine carcasses.

        I guess it must be technical wizardry like the kind used in doctor who & cinderella (tardis & pumpkin coach respectively)

        12 0 Reply
        1. Alfred
          Reply Icon

          Re: Impressive

          It did give me paws, barking mad as it seemed.

          9 0 Reply
        2. fruitoftheloon
          Reply Icon

          @Richard 120 Re: Impressive

          Me too, that is what I call recycling...

          1 0 Reply
    2. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Stuff the Parish Council, they are small fry, get a specialist and take it to appeal and keep going. If you can prove its not sustainable as a pub you will have a strong case.

      1 0 Reply

Page:

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

Forgotten password ?

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Other stories you might like