Re: S.M.A.R.T.
Hopefully these meters are smarter than you, you cant spell!
The timescale for the installation of 50m smart meters at a cost of £11bn is up for revision (again), junior minister and member of the House of Lords, Baroness Verma, has admitted. By 2020, the government wants everyone to have a smart meter fitted at a cost of £200 per household. However, the project has been dogged by …
This post has been deleted by its author
We had the engineer around this summer to install it for us - turns out he couldn't. The muppet who wired the apartment block up originally didn't split the cable before routing it to each of the apartments.
The engineer's choice was to turn off the power for the entire block or to install the meter while the cable was still live. He went with option 3 - put it into the too hard basket and have an early lunch.
It's not that uncommon. There will be a significant number of people who will be denied access to a buggy, insecure and 'out of date on install' smart meter that will save them almost no money at all. But they'll still have to pay for it through their bills. That's progress for you.
See: http://www.nickhunn.com/uk-smart-meters-delayed-again/#more-1585 for a completely depressing view of the whole UK smart meter fiasco.
Shared fuse - they have to write to everyone on the shared supply and give them a "Notification of interruption of supply" letter.
Very annoying to find someone owing ten grand on their bill can't be switched to PAYG because someone forgot to send out the letters!
If only Governments were still capable of admitting they'd been mislead. They could try scapegoating the liars who lied to them, perhaps even throwing some in prison for fraud, that would give them the "excuse" they needed... and then they could sensibly change track.
How do I know nearly no-one cares about smart meters saving on their bills? Because I've been into dozens of houses with the little clips around the wire to report the electric use to a little wireless box on the table. Barely any have batteries in them, and most are still in the boxes, as they were given away by the power companies to anyone who wanted one. And still they aren't in common use - most houses don't care. They just run up a debt.
> How do I know nearly no-one cares about smart meters saving on their bills?
It's not that they don't care. It's that the usage monitoring devices reveal very obviously that knowing what you are using makes no difference. (Plus, how many KwH do you need to save to cover the cost of 4 Duracell AAs?)
This reminds me of some of the strange (to us) fads of Victorian times, for example the one where radium was added to lots of things, and various properties were claimed for radium without a shred of hard evidence, and no consideration of possible hazard to the consumer (yes, I know they werent; aware of radiation poisoning back then - but so far as I'm aware they didn't do any safety testing at all back then).
Smart meters and smart homes are lovely ideas that would work fine in an ideal world where there are no malcontents and product producers always take consumer safety considerations in mind. This is not that ideal world. Such devices WILL be attacked by ne'er-do-wells , and the consequences of such attacks could be catastrophic, whilst the gains to the consumer are marginal at best and may actually be non-existent (or even negative)
This being the case, such devices will only get into my home over my dead body.
Thanks for reminding me about another issue I need to write to my MP about, El Reg!
One of the /really/ cool things about these devices is that they can be used (remotely) to switch off supply. Guess how they need to be reset? Yes, that's rght - manually.
Now imagine finding the resource to reset 20 million domestic units which have been remotely terminated in an attack.
WTF we are still even contemplating this madness is beyond me. Especially with Crapita in the driving seat.
Until 3 months ago I was working for one of the big 6 on their smart meter rollout and your statement "Guess how they need to be reset? Yes, that's rght - manually." is not true. The power off switch is inside the meter and can be turned on remotely via the DCC.
However, I can indeed confirm that Crapita are useless, the meters will require multiple firmware upgrades to fix many security bugs and they will not save you a single penny on your usage. Ideally this should be a public run national infrastructure project that the energy companies subscribe to, as it is they are all building their own capabilities at great expense which will get passed on to you and me. Also, Capita outsourced the DCC deployment to CGI Logica who surprise surprise are now touting their own DCC connector software to the Energy companies, no conflict of interest there then!
@ charlie-charlie-tango-alpha
This is why we're doing it:
http://ec.europa.eu/energy/gas_electricity/smartgrids/smartgrids_en.htm
EU directives require us to do it. We are required BY LAW to have 80% of houses fitted with one by 2020.
http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-12/21/smart-meters
Doubtless the usual EU fanatics will be vigorously downvoting this, or claiming, as they usually do, that it's all 'optional' and we all 'signed up for it' or some such BS.
@Tapeador - No, we didn't. Feel free to keep making excuses. What's next? "If the UK left the EU we wouldn't be able to 'influence the decision making process"?
And, just as I suspected, the EUfanatic downvoters are out in force. What is it you love so much about it and why do you always post as AC? I don't wonder.
@Flatpackhamster (love the name btw)
ooh, I didn't know it was a requirement under EU law to have consumers fitted-up (I use the term advisedly) with 'smartmeter' crapware. Sigh. I'm actually in favour of the idea of the EU. It's just that I can scarcely believe that the politicians have managed to find just about the most non-optimal way to implement the idea. Right then - that's my MP AND my MEP about to get a scathing letter on the matter.
You're right - a directive gives choice of how to implement.
And in principle, smart grids actually ought to make for cheaper energy and thus less returns to foreign extractive industries and more to higher-monetary-velocity industries (which seems to me a decent enough policy for co-ordination among the member states, assuming this objective wasn't in one of the treaties signed from time to time, which it probably was anyway).
a directive gives choice of how to implement.
Correct, so the way to go is with what much of the continent is doing.
Advertise the things and get your power companies to badger their customers about having one installed. Eventually 2020 will come round and there'll still be nigh-on bugger all of the things out there. At that point two things can happen.
The most likely outcome is that by 2020 the goalposts will have moved and nobody at the EU will give a shit anyway. Result!
The second possibility is that the target remains in place. At this point you turn round, detail the actions taken and point out it's not your fault if nobody wanted one. The EU then backs down rather than instruct the country concerned to override the wishes of its people, as this damages the fig-leaf of democracy that serves to disguise the Stalinist oligarchy of the EU.
The gas company recently decided that our gas meter was no longer allowed to live in a brick-and-metal box sunk in the wall of our house but instead must be moved to a fibreglass carbuncle mounted to the outside wall. The only reason I can think of for this is to prepare for the meter emitting RF signals.
There's nothing in the directive which means that all customers must have smart meters. I'm currently living in another EU country and have been offered one in a vague way and declined as it's not going to save me any money.
So, job done, offer made, customer declined.
Has anyone got any proof that the UK government voted against this? My understanding is that they were one of the leading protagonists. I think both this and the previous UK governments like the idea as it gives them some ammo to use if we run out of electricity over winter....... it'll suddenly become our fault for not using the tools they gave us!
Had this last year when they tried to convince me that they had to install a smart meter for safety reasons. I said fine but can i have a dumb meter instead if safety was their concern. They said of course and, 18 month on, have heard nothing more from them on the subject.
I just cannot fathom how fitting a smart meter will magically reduce bills by 2% (unless they fit external insulation for free as part of the service).
"I just cannot fathom how fitting a smart meter will magically reduce bills by 2% (unless they fit external insulation for free as part of the service)."
Because "they" think that if we're getting told that putting the heating on every night is going to cost us 50p, we're more likely to put a jumper on.
The reality I faced, when I had one of those cheap plugin things supplied by Eon, was surprise how little the heating was costing compared to what I thought it was. So I put it on more often.
And the meter plugin thing was "recycled" (WEEE) a long time ago.
I think the theoretical savings come from not having to send someone round to read the meter.
Not that anyone ever reads ours since they always come during working hours. They leave a card asking us to read the meter and put the card up in the window for them to check the next day, then it shows up on the bill as an actual meter reading and presumably the meter reading guy gets paid as if he really did read it.
Once they have enough of them installed they can do what they did in Toronto and charge different rates for different times of the day.
They started out with the peak rate 3 times the overnight / weekend rate. But it seems a lot of people moved stuff to the off peak time so each price change the off peak goes up more then the peak rate and now it's only half the peak rate. And even less with the next change...
http://www.torontohydro.com/sites/electricsystem/residential/smartmeters/Pages/default.aspx
Last fall we got a smart water meter, that's worse then the electric one since they don't even have peak use problems. Wonder when we will be getting a smart gas meter...
Having just changed energy suppliers I got a letter from Siemens saying that they were coming to replace my electricity meter. Fair enough, but the plan hit the buffers when I pointed out that due to the lack of reliable mobile connection the proposed meter would more often than not be able to phone home. So the shitty broadband and mobile reception here means that they had to revert to a conventional meter.
Which is fine, except that the bloody thing is about the size of a matchbox and the minuscule readout now means that I now have to get a ladder and a torch just to read the damned thing. The old GEC electro-mechanical one was readable from yards away.
So I missed out on any potential savings plus I now have to scrabble about to read the thing. Ain't progress wonderful?
The meter in my house is a Denis Ferranti electromechanical job. It allows me to view my energy usage at a glance (through the rotating disc) and simply works.No ifs. No buts. No phoning home. My electricity supplier requests meter readings, and I supply them. Someone checks it physically about twice a year.
How on earth will a smart meter benefit me? My usage is allready minimal.
It may surprise you to learn that a significant number of homes in the world are already fitted with smart meters. In most of Australia, for instance, the rollout is more than 50% complete - that is, smart meters are now more common than dumb ones.
And somehow, these "attacks" haven't materialised. There's not one even half-way convincing report of a hacker remotely shutting off someone's electricity.
Why are you fretting so much about a threat that has no substantiation outside your own imagination?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they're a great idea. They're expensive and badly designed in all kinds of exciting ways. But let's at least argue about real things, not imaginary ones.
No, I wouldn't maliciously turn off one or more home meters. I'd monitor my potential targets to determine their behaviors and schedule my burglaries appropriately. Home or business. That's what immediately came to mind when the White House was pushing for every property owner having remote access to such data.
But they've always been able to cut you off when they haven't enopugh leccy to go round right now, she says, remembering the power-cuts from her dim and distant youth. As for anything else, file under the 'when will society wake up to the fact that companies (which includes utilities) are supposed to exist for the benefit of humans, not the other way round?'. Sigh.
(now standing outside trying to thumb a lift from a passing alien to take me back home)
but with this solution they can cut off individuals remotely and say that they've exceeded "fair use" at a time of "short supply".
Surly that's got to be the reasoning behind this. If they turn off whole areas there'll be an outcry but if they turn off 90% and push the message that it's because they use too much everyone will turn on each other and the government can walk free.
Perhaps drop a few stories in the press about certain people running too many Christmas lights, or outdoor swimming pool heaters etc. then encourage us to watch our neighbours and then start using the SMART meters to switch some of us off if necessary.
Anything to distract us from asking questions about the government failing to address the real problem.
To Matt 21 who said '[energy retailers will] cut off individuals remotely and say that they've exceeded "fair use" at a time of "short supply".'
In my experience this is not the way privatised monopolies operate. Local distributors will always encourage load growth and try to take conductors and substations above the nameplate rating at peak times (e.g. summer air-con hear in Oz). That way they get to grow the asset base next year.
Retailers without hedge fund protection might wish to disconnect customers at times of high wholesale prices, but do they get to control the switch, other than for unpaid bills? Probably not.
A "good" system from the industry perspective is one with enough generation and transmission capacity in the national grid to cover cold snap and heatwave conditions on a weekday, but with each suburb (zone substation and downstream HV/LV distribution) just weak enough to fail in streets where customers go ballistic with excessive consumption.
Such a balance provides overall resilience to the national transmission grid, but provides group punishment (aka load shedding) for some locations where your neighbours (never you of course!) have more money than brains and love wasting electricity, cooking the planet with global warming, etc.
Michael G, aka voltscommissar
The other w(h)ease(l) bit is the demand pricing. Just wait until they copy Uber's gouge pricing model, and those 3 units of power in deepest winter to save your toes from falling off cost you £40 each, while in summer when your own solar panels are making 3 units an hour, they will only be worth 4p each, because everyone else's panels are also making power.
Not where I live it isn't. (In the UK, just)
Here you pay for what you use which caused cries of anguish from all those swimming-pool owners and those using lawn sprinklers.
We didn't have a choice, it was compulsory, something that has been changed after our test run was over.
For once you can literally thank Thatcher for that one, water was un-metered in England and Wales before it was privatized by her parliament. Since it was a separate system in Scotland though we got to keep un-metered water and just pay a flat fee as part of the council tax