New browsers pop up all the time. They're mostly either focused on some specific niche or do nothing new/interesting and are forgotten.
El Reg must have had stories on dozens of the things over the last few years?
Browsers have been making a comeback. There have been three brand new browsers released and even Firefox, which seems to be sliding further into irrelevancy every day, has released a new version aimed at developers and claims to be working on a WebKit-based version for iOS devices. It’s a refreshing moment. After an initial …
Still nothing like the good ol' days of the 90's browser wars. I wouldn't mind another go around. I remember installing Cello on Window's 3.1, though that was the last time I used Windows. Still, it's nice to see Microsoft moving on. Perhaps that will help liven things up a little.
Opera 11.64 (not 12) was the best ever poweruser-humanity could have. I have approx 2,000+ tabs opened every given time and opera.exe consumes as little as 1.4GB ... these tabs are unread articles...research on some software tech... each research field/area consisting of some 100tabs... how it is achieved... three small checkboxes added to my opera taskbar .. disableJavaScript, DisablePlugins, and DisableImages. opera can enable it on the fly instead of restarting. i also have disabled autoredirect to keep even expired pages as is. also have disabled themes. I have VBS script which copies opera session/.win file in yyyymmddhhmmss foramt every 30min. so even if opera.exe crashes i can resume the state back. At this level the tabs are so small the i cant see them except a shadow moving in near smooth tabs line (tabs borders even disappear even while scattered in 6 windows. So the move around tabs i have customized shortcuts to instead of using ctrl+tab i have defined "[" and "]" to move linearly among them. Instead of ctrl+w to close tab which has a mystery of crashing opera i defined only "m" to close tab.. this saves from crashing opera. People praising opera12 are fake power users. as 12 had removed many of 11.64 legacy. I have "j" defined to enable javascript only for that page instead of whole session and "k" to disable javascript for that page after load complete. have defiened "n" for new tab unstead of ctrl+t as it had similar opera crashing habits like ctrl+w. lastly the session restore on my samsung840pro ssd takes 15-20mins with all pages loaded with content. If this browser has taken the legacy of 11.64 then i wish them very best!!!
"Opera 11.64 (not 12) was the best ever poweruser-humanity could have. I have approx 2,000+ tabs opened every given time and opera.exe consumes as little as 1.4GB ... these tabs are unread articles...research on some software tech... each research field/area consisting of some 100tabs... how it is achieved... three small checkboxes added to my opera taskbar .. disableJavaScript, DisablePlugins, and DisableImages. opera can enable it on the fly instead of restarting. i also have disabled autoredirect to keep even expired pages as is. also have disabled themes. I have VBS script which copies opera session/.win file in yyyymmddhhmmss foramt every 30min. so even if opera.exe crashes i can resume the state back. At this level the tabs are so small the i cant see them except a shadow moving in near smooth tabs line (tabs borders even disappear even while scattered in 6 windows. So the move around tabs i have customized shortcuts to instead of using ctrl+tab i have defined "[" and "]" to move linearly among them. Instead of ctrl+w to close tab which has a mystery of crashing opera i defined only "m" to close tab.. this saves from crashing opera. People praising opera12 are fake power users. as 12 had removed many of 11.64 legacy etc etc etc. lastly the session restore on my samsung840pro ssd takes 15-20mins with all pages loaded with content. If this browser has taken the legacy of 11.64 then i wish them very best!!!"
Wow. I use these things called bookmarks.
You do realise you're mental don't you?
Is Firefox without the garbage. My add-ons work longer and there is the familiar classic interface. Highly recommended for multiple platforms. (I am not associated with, compensated, or employed by Pale Moon in any way.)
From their web site.
"Pale Moon is an Open Source, Firefox-based web browser available for Microsoft Windows, Android and Linux (with other operating systems in development), focusing on efficiency and ease of use. Make sure to get the most out of your browser!
"Pale Moon offers you a browsing experience in a browser completely built from its own source with carefully selected features and optimizations to maximize the browser's speed*, stability and user experience, while maintaining compatibility with thousands of Firefox extensions many have come to love and rely on."
http://www.palemoon.org/
I agree it s good.. its australis that forced me to look at it.. has it got t the FULL set of adblock addons working yet??? last time I tried 25, it did not have the right click menu taht FF28 has...
IF you STILL are moaning, and have not learnt, Adblock WILL ALLOW 'GOOD' ADS!!!!
https://adblockplus.org/en/acceptable-ads
Rant #1
I was deeply disappointed when I "upgraded" Opera to the latest version, as it has been dumed down and thing I used to like having, such as the ability to turn off GIF animations and generally block content per-site, are gone. Maybe some plug-ins will help, but overall its almost pointless.
Chromium gives me a webkit-based browser without Google's spying, so what is Opera actually offering to justify their existence? OK the "turbo" feature is occasionally useful, but that is about it.
Rant #2
Will Firefox quite copying Chrome's "users are morons" approach and stop dicking around with the GUI? You know, hiding thing and/or removing them because a couple of developers don't use them.
Rand #3
Actually, its an anti-rant as I am pleased MS has finally bitten the bullet and decided to ditch all of the legacy crap in IE. Yes, I know a lot of organisations are IE-bound but for the love of $DIETY just fix those. MS needs to move on and if they stick to open standards, and ideally open their browser (even if under a restrictive license) all will benefit.
I'm only taking a pragmatic view here, though I suspect I know what the outcome will be...
I need a citation for the assertion that their user experience profiling only goes as deep as taking their developers own views. They probably go deeper than that (NB, I did say "probably").
Surely they have to pander to the majority in order to bring general user counts up enough to be able to sell whatever it is they sell to make FF and keep it free. My mum would never use half the stuff that "confuses her" about previous releases and she's glad their gone (after I forced it on her a few years ago by removing all the IE icons I could find). I suspect that this holds true for the user majority.
I would wager that El Reg users would in general agree with the above statements only because they're not in this majority. Indeed, I was also very confused when a recent update moved stuff around, but a quick add-on here, theme change there, customisation everywhere and I'm back on track for the most part.
Besides all that, what feedback have you given Mozilla on your experience as a result of the changes? If none, then they don't know you exist, let alone your views, and they will never be able to meet expectations of users whom they know nothing about. If the dullards demanding simple are more vocal than you, then you lose, I'm afraid.
"If the dullards demanding simple are more vocal than you, then you lose, I'm afraid."
The sort of idiots who get confused by a menubar are hardly the sort who'll be sending feedback reports to mozillas dev team. They have their work cut out for themselves just trying to double click the browser icon.
No, I'm afraid plenty of people have complained to mozilla but just like the arrogant dicks at Gnome , they think they know best and anyone who complains is a luddite. Well, they'll slowly find out from their dwindling market share that they don't and we arn't.
Nobody's demanding anything, what they do is take metrics and use them to justify their beautiful design changes.
Moving the standard menu around or hiding it or making some own special icon menu at the right is more confusing for the novice user I'd say.
Also hiding preferences because people only use them in limited cases (probably only where there's some problem) therefore the use count is low is annoying to power users. It's also a self-fulfilling prophesy the because obscure preferences and keyboard shortcuts are generally only used by power users, those same users that turn off the telemetry data (not that I don't trust Mozilla but even they won't make me keep that on after Snowden) but they didn't bother anyone else.
Ok, well firstly it wasn't I that started with the whole dullard thing - it was from the original post and I used the word, personally preferring it over "moron".
All we're talking about here is the user majority opinion driving change, I have two points:
- if you think that users who don't know how to voice their opinions are dumb, and if they're not dumb they'd agree with you on the UI, that's a pretty arrogant stance.
- when a company is dealing with dropping market share they have to do something. Looking at who is winning those migrating away (i.e. Chrome) and heading in a similar direction is a legitimate strategy. Although that's *not* guaranteed to work it's better than no product development at all.
You've successfully built an argument on vapourware. We're all guessing and applying our own opinions to the mix, but "I don't like it and a few others I've spoken too (who happen to have my background in IT) agree" isn't grounds for assumption on opinion of user majority.
Remove the damn search bar and prevent any more being installed. I get fed up with telling people to type an address into the address bar for them to just type it into whichever search bar they've accidentally installed.
Even worse if you're trying to give them a remote support address,
Second point: At one point Chrome seemed like it was everywhere. Anyone who sticks their browser in their search engine which has 90% of the market, antivirus software, and Flash and Reader is bound to get a whole load of people moving to Chrome, often because they don't know how to get back (especially with Firefox installs that I do for other people).
Not much they can do against the Borg by playing fair. Perhaps Mozilla should have invested time in making Firefox as uninstallable as the Ask Toolbar or do what Safari on Yosemite does, which use a plug-in to bother you if it's run from another browser.
"when a company is dealing with dropping market share they have to do something"
Trying to make "FireFox" and make it appeal to everyone is as futile as trying to make a universal "Ford" or "Volkswagen". Luckily the solution is patently obvious, as per that example: make a range of models and don't dick around with fundamental conventions.
All cars need steering wheels. All desktop applications need menu bars. See TIFKAM and GNOME 3 for a case studies in sticking a joystick in front of the driver's seat. I someone thinks they have invented a radical and compelling new user interface paradigm then I have a bucket and some ice water here to demonstrate the true meaning of "immersive UI experience".
'Trying to make "FireFox" and make it appeal to everyone' IS easy enough, if ALL the features can be modified and enhanced by addons , themes, etc...
Now IF Moz produces a 'core' WITHOUT australis, then those that want it, just get the addon --- or of course moz can supply the browser with many addons *already* in, keeping the newbs happy, but also easily *removed* by those that dont want, in preference of a more complex style or usability...
The main beef, is the current version needs about 5 *exra* addons, JUST to bring it back to the state it was in, at V28, with NO addons!!!
I think mozilla , through its forums, KNOW how much hate there is for australis... Just like opera, they just delete it and say "problems? what problems???" they know that 'new young things' will not even KNOW that it could be much better.... :( :(
Its the same as win 8.. idiot new users love it, it looks so 'playstation' !!! and poor office workers and devs have to learn more ways to manage it...
If you bother reading, you would know that Google has been the main source of lucre for Mozilla for many years.
In return, Google is the default search engine for Firefox.
Generally easy to switch to another, though not in all versions (some seem to rely on a volatile setting, in history, cookies, or such, so when you wipe that, FF goes back to Google as the default).
Bad design there, but clearly not so bad for the 'Google is the only SE' and 'I find it convenient to leave all cookies and history, and to always click on "Remember Me on this Machine"' crowd, after all, clearly the majority.
Still like it in general.
Occasionally enter an erroneous site name directly, or do something else that unintentionally invokes Google. Irritating, but not a disaster.
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Article: Firefox, which seems to be sliding further into irrelevancy every day...
m0rt: "Will Firefox quite copying Chrome's "users are morons" approach and stop dicking around with the GUI?"
The first quote is a consequence of the second. It's a rude surprise when you update Firefox and find another useful feature is gone. The whole "we know better than our users" attitude from Firefox is truly annoying.
not that a lot of organizations are tied-up to IE, it is that those organizations are tied-up to a specific version of IE, like in IE 6 or at most 7 so moving to their new browser is impossible unlike the two can be run in parallel, no compatibility mode, please!
"And the curses involved in getting the engine out of a VW Dub need to be heard to be believed. Came up with a number of new ones myself. Worth the effort (I think) though."
Of course you could always buy a vehicle that came with a decent engine in the first place rather than trying to squeeze a few extra HP out of something that would be underpowered for a lawnmower.
I found working on the VW engine easy - especially when it fell out on the drive. With a lift the standard engine was so easy to work on - its all these fancy turbos and carburetors that dont fit the engine bay that makes things difficult. Friend has on where the turbo was welded in place in the 17 piece exhaust! My VW before last I had to buy a special tool to get the spark plugs out!
The chrome/ff approach appears to be a mid engined jobie where the body wont come off to get at it!
As a spotty teenager, I used a builders' plank and a skateboard to get mine out, having first reversed the car on to ramps. Worked a treat. Undoing the single central bolt holding the flywheel on was another matter, as was torquing it back up to (if memory serves) 147lbft. Shattered the first socket wrench.
Happy days.
-A.
"A half-timbered traveller, mayhap?"
But this time around one with a driver's door that doesn't sag when you open it, please :-)
Happy days. I could fix just about everything on those with a socket set, a few open ended spanners, plus screwdriver..
But not the rust which got it in the end.
Actually, Firefox *used* to be the customisable one.
With every version they're locking more and more of it down, stripping out customisability and are forcing people to rely upon an ever-increasing messy-list of extensions to add back functionality/customisability that used to come by default with the browser.
The Australis "overhaul" alone removed the status bar, removed tabs-on-bottom, locked the address bar to the left, and removed the ability to put stop/reload wherever you want.
Firefox is slipping into obscurity as Mozilla seem hell-bent on making it look and work like Chrome, whilst continually removing all the powerful bits that used to make Firefox stand out. Hence why after nearly 10 years as my primary browser, I finally ditched it last year.
I don't see any of those as an option. IE & Safari don't exist on Linux, Chrome I won't use because Google, and Opera has too small of a user base leading to too many web page incompatibilities. I already went through that when I used Mozilla and later the early versions of Firefox until it became widespread enough that web developers were forced to no longer code for IE only. I figure I've paid my dues, I'll let someone else deal with using a browser with a tiny market share hoping it gains traction.
I may have missed a "don't do this" option, but I am concerned that once I installed Yandex, it had my history and passwords etc from my current Chrome session.
I did literally just install it and Vivaldi (I want it to play winter to me whilst I browse dammit!) at the same time in a sleepy haze though so I may have missed an option.
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