Apple pulls Civil War games in Confederate flag takedown Apple is removing games that feature the Confederate flag in their titles or gameplay from its App Store. A number of titles previously available on the App Store, mainly combat and strategy games set in the US Civil War, have been taken down, along with some wallpapers featuring the flag. Though Apple has yet to return a …
I'm now sadly thinking of the same thing...
Even if they were to "sanitize" the imagery, some of the level maps are based on fractal swastikas.
So they'd have to totally rework the levels to be fractal puppies or begonias...
That reminds me of Chex Quest, the fun filled free advertisment game that was re-skinned DOOM..
This new "political correctness" for games, etc.is a bit scary. In the scale models arena, some guys have been beaten to a bloody pulp (verbally) for putting the swastika on German tanks, planes, and ships. and then when they remove it, another group will beat them verbally for not being historically accurate. I imagine this is about to spread into other areas for this flag. The big question is: who or what is next? Paintings in art museums?
BTW, it's good, IMO, that the flag is pulled from State capitols, etc...
So by you it is good to not honor war dead by displaying their regimental colors?
Because that's what it is/was doing in South Carolina. It wasn't flying over the capital where Democrat Fritz Hollings hoisted it as governor. It was moved from there years ago under a Republican governor and instead flies/flew at the memorial honoring SC's dead civil war soldiers.
>So by you it is good to not honor war dead
So by you its ok for that we yearly (like their government) also honor the Japanese soldiers convicted of committing war crimes in WW2? I personally will never honor anybody just for fighting for the South. They might have been a good person but they were also by definition a traitor to the Union and an enemy just like the Japanese in WW2.
It wasn't flying over the capital where Dixiecrat Fritz Hollings hoisted it as governor. It was moved from there years ago under a Republican governor (after a monumental fight in the legislation where opposition to it was mostly Republican)
FIFY.
This post has been deleted by its author
>The United States in general stands for racism
Well if we are going to deflect blame that way we can say so does Australia who are still far more racist than the US (paying smugglers off to take asylum seekers back out to sea is a bit beyond the pail no?). Also you don't see American sports having to censure entire fan bases for racism. Say what you want about the US but our immigrants learn to speak the language by the 3rd generation unlike many parts of civilized Europe.
>@asdf - and the phrase is "beyond the pale", referring to the fence delineating the extent of English rule in Ireland, so could be considered offensive too.
I guess that's what I get for using terms I steal from the UK readership. Throwing your toys out the pram isn't racist in anyway is it?
@GBE
"It stands for racism, hatred, and slavery and always has."
Well, one might argue that, with the exception of the 'stainless' banner, the flags stood for the confederacy which did indeed want to secede to preserve slavery.
But does that mean that the flag itself stand for that?
Perhaps, and, when flown and displayed in a modern context, this becomes far more likely.
But that's the point - the context. When displayed as part of a historical context, it is the battle flag for several armies of the south and most notably General Lee, who used it at Gettysburg.
Thus a HISTORICAL portrayal of the Battle of Gettysburg would be willfully inaccurate if it removed or replaced this flag.
Displayed by the KKK it stands for racism and hatred. Displayed in a video game about Gettysburg, it stands for General Lee's North Virginian Army, without whom the campaign would not be a very important event in history as it's hardly worth remembering the summer that George Meade spent with his friends in Pennsylvania.
This is a knee-jerk over-reaction by Apple and, if this is really their position then I urge them to remove all content with similarly offensive livery from their store.
I don't know how many people would missThe Dukes of Hazard but we can't stop at just this flag because certainly the Nazi Swastika qualifies every bit as much - if not more.
"It stands for racism, hatred, and slavery and always has."
"Well, one might argue that, with the exception of the 'stainless' banner, the flags stood for the confederacy which did indeed want to secede to preserve slavery.
Well, no, the flag in question is the Battle Flag of the Army of Virginia. It stood for the Army of Virginia. The 'stainless banner' was the second national flag of the Confederate States of America, and it had a similar pattern in the top left corner of an otherwise plain white rectangle twice as wide as tall. A shorter version, 1.5 times as wide as tall was used as the Confederate Navy's ensign. So, one would certainly expect to find the battle flag in a game that is specifically about a battle involving the Army of Virginia, yes?
"It stands for racism, hatred, and slavery and always has."
Nope, as any scholar of American History will tell you. (But who listens to them?
It stood for Sates rights, the whole succession movement came about because the Federal Government was expanding its powers in ways that abrogated State Rights.
Slavery wasn't even mentioned until the second year of the war, when the northern states started demanding that the Federal Government end the bloody massacre.
Slavery? Funny thing that. The Emancipation Proclamation only ended slavery in the conquered territories. (Their term, it's right there in the proclamation itself.)
There were Northern states that continued to use slavery for another 2 years afterward, until the 13th amendment was finally added to the constitution.
Funny, that is almost never mentioned these days, or that slavery was practiced in many so called free northern states, before during and after the civil war.
"The historian Joanne Pope Melish, who has written a perceptive book on race relations in ante-bellum New England, recalls how it was possible to read American history textbooks at the high school level and never know that there was such a thing as a slave north of the Mason-Dixon Line:" - http://slavenorth.com/
"Slavery wasn't even mentioned until the second year of the war, when the northern states started demanding that the Federal Government end the bloody massacre."
Well, except in the various state's declarations of secession, where it's mentioned dozens and dozens of times. Georgia's starts off with ' For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery'. Mississippi's justification begins 'Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth'. South Carolina's is much more heavily based in State's Rights, but does refer to the South as 'the Slave-holding States' throughout.
That does kind of suggest that, a the time, most of them were thinking a bit more about keeping their slaves than they were about constitutional conventions surrounding the relative power of federal and state legislatures.
>It stood for States rights
What total BULLSHIT! Revisionism is far more dangerous than any flag. Get that lost cause of the confederacy propaganda the fug out of here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Cause_of_the_Confederacy (plenty of other non wikipedia sources about this garbage as well)
>Slavery wasn't even mentioned until the second year of the war,
Wrong again.
Constitution of the Confederate States
Article IV Section 3(3)
The Confederate States may acquire new territory; and Congress shall have power to legislate and provide governments for the inhabitants of all territory belonging to the Confederate States, lying without the limits of the several states; and may permit them, at such times, and in such manner as it may by law provide, to form states to be admitted into the Confederacy. In all such territory, the institution of negro slavery as it now exists in the Confederate States, shall be recognized and protected by Congress, and by the territorial government: and the inhabitants of the several Confederate States and Territories, shall have the right to take to such territory any slaves lawfully held by them in any of the states or territories of the Confederate states.
Hi, asdf: re "I apologize in advance for not buying the narrative that the older southern white christian American male is ruthlessly persecuted.", you forgot 'het': Queer Nation is apparently hunting down heterosexuals and taking their marriages away thanks to the Supreme Court legislating from the bench. [* rolls eyes *]
Incorrect. Some of them will, some of them claim it stands for racism. Granted the ones who claim it stands for racism put their politics in front of their scholarship, but they are still titled as scholars. And who can blame them when Southern Loyalists are as willing to spin history as they are?
Lincoln didn't have the authority to free slaves in the US. He did have the authority to do it in the conquered territories. Freeing them required a Constitutional amendment (several actually as each was used to address a specific point. Funny how they didn't pull this omnibus crap back then) which was taken up as soon as the war was over and passed quite quickly thereafter (a mere 8 months, lightning fast for the time given it need approval from both houses of Congress plus 3/4 of the states).
As a Pennsylvanian I was quite aware that slaves were not merely bought and sold across the whole of the US from colonial times, I learned about the trade triangle (rum and goods to Africa, Slaves to the Americas especially Jamaica and Cuba, and sugar to New England) which quite obviously was as evil if not more as owning the slaves. However it was equally true that by the time of the Civil War not only had owning slaves fallen out of favor in the North, many if not most of them had amended their constitutions so that slavery within their borders was illegal. In fact, that was the whole point of the Dred Scott case. Scott lived for 4 years in a territory where it was illegal to be a slave. On that basis he sued to be permanently freed. Then a racist Chief Justice rewrote the laws of the States from the bench. It's a blow from which our court system has never really recovered. Now it's blase for justices at all levels of the courts to rewrite laws to fit their political views.
"Funny, that is almost never mentioned these days, or that slavery was practiced in many so called free northern states, before during and after the civil war."
Never hear of the three fifths compromise either, though it played a huge part in the controversy over slavery at the time. The slave states were being taxed by the federal government to a greater extent because 3/5 of the slave population was being counted when apportioning taxes. The free states feared being left behind in the Western expansion because they could not compete with the slaveholders economically without attempting to hamper the slave states through taxing. So, was it about slavery? Yes, indirectly, but like every war ever fought, it was about money. Saying that the American Civil War was fought to free the slaves is like saying World War 2 was fought to liberate the Jews.
>The free states feared being left behind in the Western expansion because they could not compete with the slaveholders economically without attempting to hamper the slave states through taxing.
What kind of bullshit is this? The ones scared about being left behind economically were the slave states. The industrial North had so many more resources than the agri South (even today) it wasn't even close. If everyone from Westpoint would have went Union that war would have been over in six months. Only incompetence of Union generals (and admittedly brilliant Southern ones) early on prolonged it. The North might have had mixed reasons for fighting the Civil War but the South certainly didn't. Without slaves for example Mississippi was destined to be well Mississippi today.
"What kind of bullshit is this? The ones scared about being left behind economically were the slave states."
That is true, however the fear went both ways. The US-Mexican war and subsequent annexation of Texas as a slave state and Westward expansion of slavery was a huge part of the conflict. Congress had been trying to maintain a balance of representation from slave and free states for some 40 years prior to the war. It was the industrial revolution come to America, industry versus agriculture, and each side wanted to take the nation in different economical directions accordingly. As always, the war was fought over money.
It stands for racism, hatred, and slavery and always has.
I like that flag, visually I mean. It has never held any symbolism for me other than The Dukes of Hazzard, which inevitably leads to thoughts Daisy Duke's hot pants and the back seat of a Dodge Charger.
I've been fortunate enough to spend some time working in America down the years, and still have friends from there. None of them has ever attached any symolism to the flag and certainly hadn't marked it out as the domain of racists and slavers.
Yes, I understand the history of the flag and the civil war, but that was a very long time ago. In the years since then, the home grown racists in the UK stole our St Georges Cross, which took many years for the rest of us to take back from them. They tried to move on to the Union Jack, and we held our ground there by flying our flags in their faces. I would take a very dim view, 50 years from now, being told that flying the flag of St George at sporting events makes me an oppressive racist rather than someone proud of their country and its rich history, but who is also aware of our past misdeeds, some of which were done under my flag. There isn't a flag on the planet can truly claim not to be stained with blood.
I'm certain that many of those flying the Confederate flag and adorning their vehicles with the bumper stickers are simply proud of their state, and their region, and manage this without being racist, oppressive, or full of hate. It would seem to me to be more oppressive and hateful to attempt to ban their flag.
Britain has the Union Jack, England the St Georges Cross, Scotland has the Saltire, and so it goes. Why then can Texas or South Carolina not have both?
> It has never held any symbolism for me
And being from the UK you probably don't about things like the song Strange Fruit by Billie Holiday is about dead black people hanging from trees killed by lynch mobs (who usually supported Confederacy ideals) so you might not know why its a big deal. That said we have the 1st amendment in this country so any one should be able to fly that horrible flag or even a swastika if they want. However tax payers of all races should not be paying the government to fly it in public in any way.
And being from the UK you probably don't about things like the song Strange Fruit by Billie Holiday
No, I understand the lyrics and the meaning.
However tax payers of all races should not be paying the government to fly it in public in any way.
As a point of order, I happen to agree. The only flags flown from civic buildings should be that of the nation. I don't see that as a race issue, but as one of societal cohesion.
Does Apple allow games with WWII swastikas to be used for entertainment? If one looks back at the efforts of the organization that used that symbol it might be possible to find ideas that were very patriotic and and maybe even something to be proud of. BUT... because of several ideas that were absolutely abhorrent and debasing to humanity that flag, aside for historical references, is consigned to the garbage and to the basements of hate filled people.
To use the swastika for entertainment purposes and leave out the extermination camps and all the other abhorrent ideology, experiments etc is no different from using the Confederate flag and ignore 1/ the historical fact that preserving lynching, kidnapping, enslaving and debasing human beings based on their skin color was a major factor in the goal of flying that flag and 2/ the present day fact that *many* mean spirited people would causally continue to fly this flag and use it in "games" despite the fact that it threatens that whole segment of society who are continually targeted by the base ideals represented by the flag.
Apart from historical reference this Confederate flag belongs with that swastika - in the trash.
@PJL500
Apart from historical reference this Confederate flag belongs with that swastika - in the trash.
And this game is, explicitly, a historical reference.
"To use the swastika for entertainment purposes and leave out the extermination camps and all the other abhorrent ideology, experiments etc is no different from using the Confederate flag and ignore 1/ the historical fact that preserving lynching, kidnapping, enslaving and debasing human beings based on their skin color was a major factor in the goal of flying that flag . . ."
So a mobile game specifically about the Gettysburg campaign/battle is justified in using the historical accurate flag used by General Lee if, and only if, it also spends time focusing on the ideology of the South and if it doesn't then it must censor (and that is exactly what this is) out a historical fact?
Apart from historical reference this Confederate flag belongs with that swastika - in the trash.
What's wrong with the swastika? I personally like it. It's just a pity that some nutjobs decided to appropriate it for their own ends and that as a result we've been denied it ever since. Making it illegal is as senseless as making the symbol '福' illegal.
At least when people have the "Flag" on their truck, car etc we know their views. I have a feeling this action will just drive the people who still believe in "Old Glory" underground, and then what? Secret clubs with secret handshakes? Oh Wait! There is already one of those, three letters, eleventh letter of the alphabet...
I say let people express their beliefs, at least then we can see who stands for what. If people want to fly their "Freak Flag", then let them.
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