back to article Safe Harbor 2.0: Judges to keep NSA spying in check – EU justice boss

The NSA's blanket surveillance of Europeans will be subject to judicial review, according to EU Justice Commissioner Vera Jourová. At a committee meeting of the European Parliament this week, Jourová provided details of the replacement to the struck-down safe harbor framework, which until this month allowed people's personal …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Carp

    Will the US judges be applying EU law and standards to EU citizens data in the US or US law and standards?

    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

      Re: Carp

      As the saying goes: "FUCK THE EU"

      Seriously.

      SWIFT "sharing"? EU rolls over!

      FATCA "sharing"? EU rolls over!

      Flight records "sharing"? EU rolls over!!

      Safe Harbor 2.0: Yes, the US will be nice, we promise...

      1. asdf

        Re: Carp

        >Yes, the US will be nice, we promise...

        So nice in fact that they are in the middle of passing a bill encouraging corporations to turn over any customer information involved in a hacking attempt to the Homeland Security and the NSA and be shielded from all liability for their efforts.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Carp

          So nice in fact that they are in the middle of passing a bill encouraging corporations to turn over any customer information involved in a hacking attempt to the Homeland Security and the NSA and be shielded from all liability for their efforts.

          Do we need a warrant for this? Nah, just press that button to launch a hack against them. They'll give us the info we want once we send the "We've noticed a hacking attempt on your systems" letter..

    2. James Micallef Silver badge

      Re: Carp

      "Will the US judges... "

      And that's the problem right there. There needs to be oversight from the EU, otherwise it's just passing US self-regulation from one office to another.

  2. Blofeld's Cat
    Black Helicopters

    Hmm...

    Meanwhile in a parallel universe...

    "Thank you Judge for your detailed and interesting review of our surveillance activities. Maybe you would care to also review this other dossier before we pass it to the press ... Why yes it does appear to have your name on it, isn't that a coincidence."

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: Hmm...

      Sadly it doesn't even need to go that far.

      Hey judge sign this, "it's for Murika and against tourists"

  3. Vimes

    And the gagging clauses & overall secrecy surrounding access to personal information that makes any enforcement impossible, regardless of whether judges are involved or not? What happens there?

  4. Vimes

    It looks like the US doesn't intend on making things any easier, since CISA has been passed. One interesting aspect that is to make the types of information shared between corporations and the government exempt from their Freedom of Information Act.

    If they're limiting rights to freedoms for Americans, what makes anybody here think that they give a shit about us?

    For that matter how deluded do politicians here have to be in order to believe that the US will be willing share what requests have been made when they're busy hiding details from their own citizenry?

    1. tom dial Silver badge

      One purpose of the CISA appears to be to address a perceived reluctance of companies to disclose embarassing like that they have been hacked or targeted or defensive measures they have taken and may consider proprietary information. Exempting the disclosures from FOIA requests may be removal of an incentive to not share such information. In this it would be similar to the limited exemption from antitrust laws in section 104(e) that applies to threat information shared among private entities.

  5. Your alien overlord - fear me

    "granted to the FBI and other US agencies on national security grounds.". But what if it's for a local crime or just being nosey? Whatabout oversight of US Company A selling/swapping personal data from EU citizens to US Comapny B (or even EU Comapny C) without their prior permission/consent?

    Sounds like it's another Safe Harbour cock-up/fudge to please a certain group of people which doesn't include any EU citizens.

    1. Vimes

      For that matter: if judges have questions regarding one or more of the cases, will they be given access to the information held by the US government that allegedly justifies the requests?

      Or will they simply be given the choice to either support or reject the activities without any further information?

  6. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    If this comes to pass I'll expect it to get in front of the ECJ a lot quicker than v1.0 now that that route has been established. No doubt the effect will be the same.

  7. Warm Braw

    There will be "sufficient limitations and safeguards" to prevent mass surveillance

    Oh, no, there won't!

    Sorry, is it pantomime season yet?

  8. Captain DaFt

    How cute.

    "The NSA's blanket surveillance of Europeans will be subject to judicial review, according to EU Justice Commissioner Vera Jourová."

    Probably still believes in Santa, too.

  9. Freddd

    And??

    Just out of curiousity.....

    How does the patriot act affect EU data sat on US servers in this instance???

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: And??

      We have top people looking into it. Who? Top people.....

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: And??

      We can't give you that information.

      1. Michael H.F. Wilkinson Silver badge
        Black Helicopters

        Re: And??

        "I am sorry, Dave, I am afraid I can't tell you that."

        Where is that HAL9000 icon when you need it?

        Oh well, black chopper then

  10. Mephistro
    Flame

    I don't care much whether this lass is corrupt or just stupid, but the fact that a politician formerly accused in her country of accepting big bribes and who is a member of a populist party (the ANO*) recently founded by a millionaire has been given this position in the EU is quite depressing.

    The good part is that she is in the spotlight now, and she's probably become a toxic asset for her party and the Europarliament "group" said party belongs to.

    Note*: Bonus for Spanish speakers here. ;-)

  11. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    Judicial oversight. But of course.

    I'm quite sure judges will be able to totally control everything the NSA . . lets them know they're doing.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Are we supposed to be cheering? I don't want my data to be subject to US law at all, with or without new improved features. I certainly don't see many Americans delighted with the 'protections' they have from surveillance, which certainly haven't improved with CISA.

    That's assuming we could even trust their word on 'guarantees', which history unequivocally says we can't.

    1. DropBear
      Unhappy

      I guess we'll have to fall back to ye olde "vote with your wallets" scheme, which - considering those who give a s##t are likely a mere drop in the ocean of those who really don't, just as long as they "can get on Facebook" - probably means we're stuck with the "same old, same old" in perpetuity...

      1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        "I guess we'll have to fall back to ye olde "vote with your wallets" scheme,"

        I'm not sure how that helps the UK census data being processed by a US company or how to opt out of it legally.

  13. Michael H.F. Wilkinson Silver badge
    Meh

    Somehow ....

    I am not impressed. Can't think why

    </sarcasm>

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose...

    Do they really think a European Judge saying "Non!!" will actually stop the septics? Or even believe them when they say they have stopped?

    What's that I see, oh look a flying pig...

  15. Ged T
    Holmes

    It should be a different objective - To hold citizen data in the EU as a default

    It would seem much simpler to me that the EU mandates that EU citizen data is processed by EU resident businesses OR, for those businesses from outside the EU that choose to operate in this market, they do so accessing EU citizen data stored here.

    To afford the better protections of our data we should all seek, the default and primary choice should be that EU citizen data is held in storage facilities actually in the EU, with 'sensitive data a rest' and ALL data 'in-flight' being encrypted.

    A data processor from within or external to the EU would have the same access regime to negotiate and would therefore be auditable and accountable within the EU and they would also need to be granted access, with auditable key management, to encrypted data.

    Citizens should have the right to insist that their data is processed in the EU, again by primary default, meaning that businesses from outside the EU should establish and use facilities in this region, if they choose to operate here. That way would prevent EU business 'off-loading responsibility' through, all too often, opaque 3rd-parties whilst massively curtailing the huge abuses exercised by U.S. authorities on EU citizens.

    EU storage and data processing businesses might get a boost from this; offering a more secure data management and processing regime would be a strong play in 'The land of the Free' and I suspect in other countries, too.

    If the EU wants to exercise control, it needs to take control and stop wasting money and effort, floundering on the rocky shores of "Safe Harbor" and failing to land any usable catch...

  16. Chronos
    Go

    The correct answer

    Of course, the correct method of controlling the flow of data is not to give the buggers any in the first place. I have no reasonable expectation that things like my banking and financial records stay in the EU, let alone Britain but I can't really do much about that. Seppos will always be interested in your money and that's one area where regulation can make a difference. I won't hold my breath, though.

    Everything else gets "need to know." If they ask for my DoB with no reason and no way to verify it, they get a fake one. It gets stored in KeePassX along with the password and it then becomes another factor of authentication on my side rather than a relational key for their data mining op. Get yourself a cheap domain name and use different e-mail addresses for every company so you can see who is selling your details on. All my passwords are different and I'll even falsify my address in cases where they don't need to know it, i.e. the local telephone exchange must be getting sick of getting Screwfix catalogues and Maplin vouchers by now. Oh, and don't give any personal information over the telephone to incoming callers. Ever.

    If you drop a dead cow down the well of your personal data they'll have to stop drinking from it eventually.

  17. Graham Marsden
    Meh

    Judicial Review - The short version

    "Are they doing it?"

    "Yes."

    "Can we do anything about it?"

    "No."

    The End.

  18. channel extended

    True Worth

    Any agreement with mericun's is not worth the bog roll it is printed on.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: True Worth

      Any agreement with mericun's is not worth the bog roll it is printed on.

      That evidently includes their own constitution. I propose the thirty fourth amendment to the sacred document:

      Now wash your hands.

  19. Looper
    WTF?

    What about ...

    they treat non-US personal data as totally legally out-of-bounds, since they have no constitutional right to that data. It concerns citizens of other countries, and the determination of their criminality is not of American concern. No matter that any American may beg to differ. They can go fuck themselves, including any American commentard on here.

    What they do with Americans' personal data is within their purvue and should be treated appropriately in accordance with American law.

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Other stories you might like