back to article Windows 10 will now automatically download and install on PCs

Microsoft said it would push Windows 10 upgrades onto people's PCs much harder this year – and Redmond has been true to its word. From Monday, Windows Update will start making the upgrade to version 10 of the operating system a recommended update, rather than an optional one, a spokesperson for the software giant confirmed. …

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  1. ckdizz

    F**k these people.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      >> Today's move does mean you can expect to get a lot more technical support calls from friends and family who don't know what's going on

      And then far fewer calls from those who just upgrade as Windows 10 is in many ways a better product.

      To get people off from older OSs onto more modern and secure versions like Windows 10 is good for all of us.

      1. fredbear5150

        Please explain your implication that a modern OS is more secure than an older one.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          >> Please explain your implication that a modern OS is more secure than an older one.

          See some info https://blogs.windows.com/business/2014/10/22/windows-10-security-and-identity-protection-for-the-modern-world/

          and if that's not enough then see more info https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/mt601297(v=vs.85).aspx

          1. Preston Munchensonton
            WTF?

            See some info https://blogs.windows.com/business/2014/10/22/windows-10-security-and-identity-protection-for-the-modern-world/

            and if that's not enough then see more info https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/mt601297(v=vs.85).aspx

            Since when would anyone take security advice from Microsoft, let alone from their marketing fluff for Windows 10?

            Total fail.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              "Since when would anyone take security advice from Microsoft"

              OS-X - now well over 2,000 known vulnerabilities, Linux kernel now on well over 1,300....

              1. Chika
                FAIL

                Oh look! I haven't seen that method of FUD since I was a Usenet regular!

                Sources, please.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  "Sources, please.?"

                  Secunia, NVD.

              2. John O'Grady

                I'd rather take "known" vulnerabilities over "We were going to tell you about how easy it was to root your laptop, but we needed that 8 months to let the exploits get well used before we fixed it and then told you."

                Also, screw anyone that ever says to trust Microsoft. Take it from someone who has dealt with them since Windows 2.0, they can never be trusted. Can you say "Threshold"?:

              3. bombastic bob Silver badge

                "OS-X - now well over 2,000 known vulnerabilities, Linux kernel now on well over 1,300"

                I saw someone over on the 'answers' Microsoft forum that was trying to spread FUD like this, a while back. Words like 'sycophant', 'shill', and 'fanboi' come to mind.

                And, _THOSE_ claims are just NOT true. Did they come from HERE, by any chance?

                http://www.gfi.com/blog/most-vulnerable-operating-systems-and-applications-in-2014/

                I question the validity of pretty much EVERYTHING that this guy is saying. One comment in particular pretty much sums up why:

                "This article insults my intelligence at the highest level! What versions of Linux and OS X are you referring to, and why is Windows broken out by version"

                lies, DANG lies, and statistics, indeed.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  "And, _THOSE_ claims are just NOT true."

                  Yes they are. The OS-X total is from Secunia. The Linux total is from the NVD:

                  https://www.cvedetails.com/vendor/33/Linux.html

                  Here is the OS-X number from the NVD (also over 1300) - lower than Secunia but still higher than any Microsoft product:

                  http://www.cvedetails.com/product/156/Apple-Mac-Os-X.html?vendor_id=49

              4. Chris G

                Yep! MS marketing typewith your 'overcoming objections' folder from the sales department, open for immediate use. Just fuck off and have a bad day!

              5. harmjschoonhoven
                Devil

                Re: OS-X and Linux vulnerabilities

                Admittedly a little out of date: Jeffrey Carr, Inside Cyber Warfare (2010) page 193 Kaspersky figures on malware distribution by OS

                Linux: total 1898, 88 trojans

                FreeBSD: total 43, 0 trojans

                SunOs/Solaris: total 119, 3 trojans

                Unix: total 212, 3 trojans

                OSX: total 48, 11 trojans

                Windows: total 2247659, 1232798 trojans

                1. Stretch

                  Re: OS-X and Linux vulnerabilities

                  https://securelist.com/analysis/kaspersky-security-bulletin/68010/kaspersky-security-bulletin-2014-overall-statistics-for-2014/

                  "Kaspersky Lab experts detected 1,499 new malicious programs for Mac OS X, 200 samples more than in the previous year."

                  https://usa.kaspersky.com/internet-security-center/threats/mac#.VrFiubKLS9J

                  "Compared with figures for 2010, the number of signatures created annually has increased by a factor of six."

                  I am not convinced the situation is the same or as flattering to OSX anymore.

                2. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: OS-X and Linux vulnerabilities

                  "Linux: total 1898, 88 Trojans"

                  That's not correct. Android (which is Linux), has vastly more Malware even than Windows desktops these days:

                  http://www.kaspersky.com/about/news/virus/2014/Number-of-the-week-list-of-malicious-Android-apps-hits-10-million

                  1. Neill Mitchell

                    Re: OS-X and Linux vulnerabilities

                    Android is NOT Linux. It was originally based on Linux, but is far removed now. Especially on the user end side of it.

          2. DJV Silver badge

            @AC

            So, as evidence, you show us two links from none other than Microsoft? Sheesh, pull the other one!

            1. Alumoi Silver badge

              Re: @AC

              Oh, come on, it works for religion, why wouldn't work for Microsoft? Or Apple? Or $big_corporation?

            2. Joerg

              Re: @AC

              He is a Microsoft employee .. shills do that. They think to be so clever too. So he uses Microsoft marketing crap to promote the scam crap.

        2. Ken Hagan Gold badge

          "Please explain your implication that a modern OS is more secure than an older one."

          I like a challenge. I'll bite.

          First off, the only relevant comparison is whether Win10 is more secure than Win7, 8 or 8.1, because the upgrade doesn't apply to any other.

          Secondly, it is clear from the last few months that the only way to be sure that you don't wake up one morning to the Win10 "installing" screen is to switch off automatic updates, even if they are marked as purely "security" ones. Therefore, the comparison is between "Win10 which is getting patched" or "Win7/8/8.1 which is not getting patched".

          Since every patch that you don't apply is a new zero day generously donated by Microsoft to the bag guys, the comparison may be fairly restated as "Win10 which MS are doing their level best to keep secure" or "Win7/8/8.1 which MS are doing their level best to turn into a stinking pile of zombie-fied porn server".

          So, which is more secure? Hmmm ... actually you're right. That's not obvious.

          1. bep

            The greeks called

            ...they'd like their logic back. I'll help you out, just because my system isn't updated automatically doesn't mean it isn't updated regularly. It just happens when I want it to happen, which isn't on the same day and at the same time every single week.

          2. Red Bren
            Gimp

            "Win7/8/8.1 which MS are doing their level best to turn into a stinking pile of zombie-fied porn server"

            So by sticking with Win 7, I'll get lots of free porn on my computer? Put the credit card away and put on the gimp mask...

          3. leexgx

            just turn off recommended updates (only need important ones, unless MS moves windows 10 as a security update then there could be problems if they did that)

      2. AndrewDu

        "Anonymous Coward"

        Says it all really.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Please focus on the message and not the messenger

          Yours, a different AC, who just wants folk to focus on the message and not the messenger.

        2. This post has been deleted by its author

      3. Michael Habel

        To get people off from older OSs onto more modern and secure versions like Windows 10 is good for all of us.

        >Implying that Windows 7 is somehow insecure than Win X? Sans the creepy data slurping telemetry updates that MicroSoft will pitch at you, behind your back, and are now flatly outright refusing to disclose. (e.g. even more creepy sanctiond malware.)'Cause they know that such disclosure would be the death of such updates. (i.e. anyone with a brain would avoid said updade like the plaque.)

        Nope its not a question of being better secured, it's a question of trust, and MicroSoft has lost mine. It was one thing to implement this stuff in Win X. There was absolutely no need to back port it to Windows 7. And is a genuine disservice to those that bought it as Ultimate at retail.

        So they can go fsck them selves!

      4. illiad

        MS security??? LOL

        MS security - still as bad as 2005... LOL

        http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20160131

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: MS security??? LOL

          "MS security - still as bad as 2005... LOL"

          Funny you should mention 2005 - that was 3 years after Bill Gates email on trustworthy computing - and ever since 2005, every year without fail, Windows has had fewer vulnerabilities that were on average fixed faster than OS-X and enterprise Linux (Redhat and SUSE).

      5. Chris G

        So, AC are you another fucking MS PR boy like those we always get in a thread like this one?

      6. N2

        To get people off from older OSs onto more modern and secure versions like Windows 10 is good for all of us.

        You either work for Microsoft or are a complete knob

        That is all

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          You either work for Microsoft or are a complete knob

          It's not either/or. It could be that both are true. Statistically speaking there's a fair chance that if one is true, the other is as well.

        2. Mpeler
          Pint

          @N2 "You either work for Microsoft..."

          Probably both: he's a complete knob who works for Microsoft...

      7. rtb61

        How can an operating system with a build in key logger ever be considered more secure. In fact everything required to turn your computer into a privacy invasive bot controlled by someone else is built right into the OS. Don't need to install any trojan ware at all under Windows anal probe 10, you just need to break in once, redirect the links and you are done.

        The whole idea is utter insanity and a solid indication that it is well and truly beyond time to abandon doing any business at all with M$.

        1. Timmy B

          Windows 10 key logger

          Do you have anything to document this? As I've said before I keep seeing people post this stuff but nobody seems to be able to back it up.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Sorry:

      Had to hijack:

      Lilipution Snot Weasel...

      ROFL...

      I SO want that error as an .SCR I can plant on some of the numpties I deal with to prove that users DO just click on anything because as sure is eggs is eggs, they will flat out deny that THEY have given crapware.exe permission to install....

      ** I did have a program that put up fake, meaningless error messages but it was back in the days of win98.

  2. MrDamage Silver badge

    Sue 'em

    Corporate theft (of both data allowance and electricity), Spam, computer misuse act, and whatever else a technically savvy lawyer can come up with.

    Or just find a MS exec, tie himm down in the middle of a pasture, and force-feed him/her a nice, fresh, steaming pile of cowshit to see how they like being treated the way they treat us.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Sue 'em

      You can't sue, you agreed to the terms and conditions. By clicking OK a few years ago.

      Of course they've changed substantially since then.

      1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

        Re: Sue 'em

        So you CAN sue.

      2. MrDamage Silver badge

        Re: Sue 'em

        Actually, being Australian, I can sue them.

        As I have mentioned before in other threads, part of our consumer laws state all terms and conditions MUST be presented to the consumer prior to the point of purchase. In other words, since they stopped printing the EULA on the outside of the box, the EULA is completely invalid.

        Then there is the fact they changed the T&Cs between the time of purchase, and now means that once again, the EULA is invalid, as a contract cannot be binding if the terms of it change without both parties consent. Being forced to accept an updated EULA in order to receive security updates to an operating system is extortion, and again, illegal.

        We may pay higher prices for our kit here in Oz, but at least we've got some decent protections from asshat companies.

        1. Salts

          Re: Sue 'em

          @Mr Damage

          Consumer wise same in the UK, unless it is against your statutory rights, basically at point of sale you and the retailer enter into a contract and all terms and conditions that need to be adhered to must be clearly displayed at that point, not 10 meters back on a wall in white text on a white background or sealed in a box, otherwise your statutory rights apply and anything else you can get away with.

          English contract law, as used by most countries, even the old colonies :-)

          As an aside always wondered about these "No contract" terms the local Gym, TV on demand, Mobile operator etc. go on about(and then list a pile of conditions), because as far as I am aware everything in the UK that is sold to a consumer is under contract and to deny it would be against the law, wouldn't it? After all "No Contract" means none, zilch F*** all, or is it like "Unlimited Broadband"!

          1. Alfie Noakes
            Devil

            @Salts (Re: Sue 'em )

            Re: "Consumer wise same in the UK, unless it is against your statutory rights, basically at point of sale you and the retailer enter into a contract and all terms and conditions that need to be adhered to must be clearly displayed at that point, not 10 meters back on a wall in white text on a white background or sealed in a box, otherwise your statutory rights apply and anything else you can get away with."

            ...and Microsoft did _just_ that for me this morning!

            Booting my (work) PC i received a popup dialogue saying that i could not continue unless i *accept* a licence agreement. The popup did not say what program or application it was from, and the licence agreement link said...

            ----

            PLEASE NOTE: Your use of this software is subject to the terms and conditions of the license agreement by which you acquired this software.  For instance, if you are:

            • a volume license customer, use of this software is subject to your volume license agreement.

            • a MSDN customer, use of this software is subject to the MSDN agreement.

            You may not use this software if you have not validly acquired a license for the software from Microsoft or its licensed distributors.

            EULAID:O15_RTM_VL.1_RTM_EN

            ----

            ...and that was it.

            The Vogons were nothing but fluffy kittens compared to Microsoft!

            mb

      3. Jess

        Re: you agreed to the terms and conditions

        I'm sure the T&C are also written in such a way that they would protect Microsoft if they had to do anything under instruction from the NSA.

        It would also be interesting to know if the legal protection from hidden T&C, that exist in some regions, still apply after agreeing to the new T&Cs of the first update.

    2. Mikel

      Re: Sue 'em

      This is what you signed up for champ, as we have been telling you for twenty years. They own you. Relax and try to enjoy it. Think of England. Whatever makes you feel better about it.

      1. sabroni Silver badge

        Re: They own you.

        Slightly OTT. They own your pc.

        1. Adam 52 Silver badge

          Re: They own you.

          On a related note, Ubuntu tried to install an "install updates automatically" patch on me at the weekend so it's not just MS playing this game.

          1. Francis Irving

            Re: They own you.

            Yeah, but the fundamental difference is you can shift to a competitor (e.g. Mint), and all your software (even proprietary like Skype, Dropbox, Spotify...) will carry on working.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: They own you.

            You either a troll or very inexperienced user. Let me show you how you can manage those simple updates in Ubuntu (feel free to use this link below):

            http://i.imgur.com/meGSt7X.png

            So it took me 4 clicks to manage that. Now I dare you to show me you can do the very same in Windows 10 :)

            I hope you have learned something today.

            Regards.

          3. fredbear5150

            Re: They own you.

            So don't use Ubuntu either. There are plenty of other Linux distros that don't enforce updates on you and whilst I don't use Ubuntu, I suspect there's an option somewhere to turn off automatic updates.

            If anything, you're an idiot if you believe any system update makes you more secure, in most cases it does not. The majority of people connecting to the Internet these days do so through NAT (Network Address Translation) routers that, by default, act as firewalls to the Internet anyway.

            Most malware and viruses are spread because a clueless user has unwittingly clicked a malicious link or installed a bit of dodgy software, there are no OS updates that fix ignorance or stupidity.

          4. Shufflemoomin

            Re: They own you.

            Did one of these "automatic updates" install a new OS for you?

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