IBM says no, non, nein to Brexit IBM has left UK staff in no doubt it wants Britain to remain in the European Union even though many of those working in its services division might not be EU-based by the end of 2017. In February, Big Blue was one of 200 large firms across a range of industries that urged Brits to vote to stay in the Union, claiming a "Brexit …
Just as easy to shuffle the money to IOM and Channel Islands and Gibralter
Except that it isn't. Revenues associated with Intellectual Property cannot be transferred to IoM without incurring tax liability - at least that's my recollection of the way it was summed up when the BEEB broadcast its program on taking the Welsh village offshore.
Still... There are all those lovely Crown Dependencies - and the climate is probably better there.
". makes far easier to shuffle money around "
Not only that , it makes it far easier to reduce the payroll bills. Why hire a UK citizen who not unreasonably expects a good salary for working in IT, when they can hire someone from eastern europe or the iberian peninsula who will be happy with any salary thats a bit higher than what they'd get at home? You think I'm joking? Well I'm currently seeing this sort of thing going on first hand. In my current company less than 50% of the workforce is from the UK and don't anyone tell me its because the skills and candidates arn't available out of 60m people because thats BS. Also one of the directors here who is from eastern europe himself has not only contracted out some IT services to a company in his home country but out of all the applicants to do a new role the one who he chose just happened to be from his country too. The whole thing stinks.
Of course mentioning something like this inevitably results in some Guardian reading useful idiot screaming "Waaacist!" (since they can't tell the difference between race and nationality it would seem).
Surely serfs have to obey their American overloads otherwise the warmongering Nobel Laureate made his visit to England in vain. We have to hope his congratulations to Merkel for inviting into Germany one million men of fighting and raping age and ordering the Gemans to deploy to the further reaches of NATO to see off the Russian threat when the level of threat in Germany was rather more substantial went down better.
That's a hell of a lot of racism in one paragraph! I live in Germany, you don't (obviously). Germans are not as bothered about the number of migrants coming except that we worry where we can locate them, how to house them, how to integrate them, etc. 1 million people is a lot to take care of in a very short period of time. To classify all of the refugees (even the women and children!) as "men of fighting and raping age" is a ridiculously racist generalism.
Don't comment on something you know nothing about, and don't drag strawmen into an argument which they have absolutely nothing to do with.
By the way, the raping you talk about, I assume is related to the New Years Eve incidents in Köln and a few other cities. The "people" involved in those have been discovered to be North African migrants (Moroccan, Libyan, Tunisian, etc.) not refugees from the 1 million middle eastern refugees that you're so freely condemning. So get your facts straight before you spout misguided racist rubbish.
Actually I quite enjoyed John's little racist rant. It shows quite nicely, without the veneer of respectability, what a lot of "leave" voters really think.
It's the old adage - perhaps not all people intending to vote leave are small minded racist bigots, but you can be sure that all the small minded racist bigots are voting leave.
"Actually I quite enjoyed John's little racist rant. It shows quite nicely, without the veneer of respectability, what a lot of "leave" voters really think."
Oh here we go, the old tar with the same brush from the Remain camp.
"It's the old adage - perhaps not all people intending to vote leave are small minded racist bigots, but you can be sure that all the small minded racist bigots are voting leave."
Since all europeans are the same race (I assume you know the difference between race and nationality, right?) , please explain how race even comes into it? Take your time.
"By the way, the raping you talk about, I assume is related to the New Years Eve incidents in Köln and a few other cities."
Maybe or possibly these..(due to the character limitation this is just January).. end of the day if you are happy with it, all the best with taking in millions of migrants and as long as it happens somewhere else and to someone else's daughters etc it makes you feel all nice and warm inside right. Just don't then try and forcibly have them sent to other EU countries and don't pretend it comes with zero consequences.
xx
January 1. More than a thousand migrants sexually assaulted hundreds of German women in the cities of Cologne, Hamburg and Stuttgart.
January 4. A group of migrant youths sexually assaulted a handicapped girl in Bielefeld.
January 5. An Afghan migrant attempted to rape a 15-year-old girl in Burghausen.
January 7. A 36-year-old asylum seeker was arrested for raping a 16-year-old boy inside the city hall of Wolfsburg. A "southerner" (südländisch, arabisch) sexually assaulted a 13-year-old girl near a train station in Ellwangen.
January 8. A 17-year-old Syrian migrant exposed himself to women at a swimming pool in St. Ingbert.
January 9. A 48-year-old woman was raped by three migrants in Dresden. The perpetrators have not been arrested. Also on January 9, a 45-year-old woman was sexually assaulted by an "Arab-speaking" man in Gleidingen, a town near Hanover. A group of five North Africans (Algerians, Moroccans) sexually assaulted five women in Oldenburg. Two North African migrants (Libya, Tunisia) sexually assaulted a 31-year-old woman at the main train station in Leipzig. A migrant attempted to rape a 46-year-old woman in Saarbrücken-Altenkessel.
January 10. A group of "southerners" (südländisches Aussehen) sexually assaulted three girls at a public swimming pool in Ansbach. A 21-year-old West African was arrested for raping a 15-year-old girl at a train station in Wuppertal. A 36-year-old Syrian migrant sexually assaulted a 20-year-old woman in Bornhöved. The woman was showing the man an apartment that had been advertised for rent.
January 11. A 35-year-old migrant from Pakistan sexually assaulted a three-year-old girl at a refugee shelter in Kamen. Eight migrants attempted to rape a woman at a grocery store in Ampfing. She defended herself by using pepper spray. A 20-year-old Moroccan assaulted a 24-year-old woman in Frankenberg.
January 12. A "southerner" (südländisch aussehenden) raped a 16-year-old girl in Wuppertal. Two "Arabic speaking" men assaulted a 37-year-old woman in Fröndenberg.
January 13. Four migrants (südländisch aussehen) attempted to rape a 13-year-old girl in Gelsenkirchen. Three migrants sexually assaulted a 31-year-old woman in Oldenburg. A migrant attempted to rape a woman at a train station in Altötting. She defended herself by using pepper spray. Three "southerners" (südländischer oder arabischer Herkunft) assaulted a woman in Bad Münstereifel.
January 14. Three migrants (südländische Hautfarbe) sexually assaulted a 47-year-old woman in the Bavarian town of Dingolfing. Three "southerners" (Südländer) assaulted a 22-year-old women on a train in Bremerhaven.
January 15. A 36-year-old migrant sexually assaulted an eight-year-old girl at a public park in Hilden near Solingen. A 31-year-old migrant from Tunisia was arrested for attempting to rape a 30-year-old woman in Chemnitz. A 31-year-old migrant from Morocco appeared in court for raping a 31-year-old woman in Dresden. A migrant sexually assaulted a 42-year-old woman in Mainz. A migrant (dunkleren Teint) sexually assaulted a 32-year-old woman in Münchfeld. An African migrant sexually assaulted a 55-year-old woman in Mannheim.
Also on January 15, all male migrants over the age of 18 were banned from a public swimming pool in Bornheim, near Bonn, after assaults against female patrons at the facility. The measure was branded as racist by German media outlets.
January 16. A migrant from Syria sexually assaulted a 12-year-old boy in Mudersbach. The migrant was arrested but then released. A 25-year-old Moroccan migrant assaulted two woman at a grocery store in Zeithain.
January 17. Three "southerners" (Südländer) attempted to rape a young woman in Kiel. Two migrants (19 and 38 years old) sexually assaulted a 21-year-old woman at a restaurant in the main train station in Nuremberg. A 19-year-old Afghan migrant assaulted four girls (aged 11 to 13) at a public swimming pool in Dresden. Migrants invaded female changing rooms at a swimming pool in Burghausen. Two "southerners" (dunklen/südländischen Typ) attempted to rape a 42-year-old woman at a pharmacy in Altötting.
January 18. A 43-year-old Syrian migrant assaulted a 63-year-old woman in Wetzlar. Police say the man also assaulted two other women (aged 62 and 74) in Wetzlar.
January 19. A 17-year-old Eritrean migrant attempted to rape an 18-year-old woman in a parking garage in Bad Oldesloe. After police intervened, the man head-butted an officer, who was hospitalized.
January 20. Migrants invaded female showers and changing rooms at two public swimming pools in Leipzig.
January 21. A "black skinned" (schwarz glänzende Hautfarbe) man attempted to rape a 13-year-old girl in Langenfeld. Two migrants assaulted an 18-year-old woman in Dingolfing.
January 22. A migrant (südländisches Äußeres) attempted to rape a 16-year-old girl in Feuerbach district of Stuttgart, and in downtown Stuttgart, four "Arabic looking" (arabisches Aussehen) men sexually assaulted a 23-year-old woman. Migrants harassed women at public swimming pools in Zwickau.
January 23. Migrants sexually assaulted two 11-year-old girls at a public swimming pool in Wilhelmshaven. Two asylum seekers from Afghanistan assaulted two 17-year-old women at a public swimming pool in Straubing. Three 16-year-old migrants from Afghanistan and Syria assaulted two 13-year-old girls at a public swimming pool in Hachenburg.
Also on January 23, a 35-year-old migrant sexually assaulted a woman in a restroom on a train in Düsseldorf. A 22-year-old Syrian migrant exposed himself on a train in Hanover. An 18-year-old Syrian asylum seeker raped a 17-year-old woman in Straubing. Two unidentified men sexually assaulted an 18-year-old woman in Wiesbaden.
January 24. Two men speaking "broken German" attempted to rape a 25-year-old woman in Lehrte as she was walking home from the train station. The men pulled a knife on the woman and ordered her to "spread your legs."
January 25. A 30-year-old migrant from "North Africa" (nordafrikanischem Erscheinungsbild) exposed himself to a 19-year-old woman on a public bus in Marburg, and then to passersby at the main train station.
January 26. A 35-year-old migrant attempted to rape a young girl in Bochum. Two female passersby intervened and called police.
January 27. Two "southerners" (dunklem Teint) sexually assaulted a 15-year-old girl at a bus stop in Überlingen. A 21-year-old asylum seeker assaulted an 18-year-old woman in a female changing room at a fitness studio in Lahr.
January 28. A migrant from Sudan sexually assaulted a female police officer in Hanover as she was attempting to arrest him for theft. Two "underage refugees" (minderjährige Flüchtlinge) sexually assaulted a 12-year-old girl at a shelter for children in Düsseldorf. It later emerged that one of the perpetrators was a 22-year-old migrant from Iran who claimed he was 16 years old to gain access to the shelter. A 17-year-old Afghan migrant assaulted a 14-year-old girl in Frankenberg. A "southerner" (Südländer) sexually assaulted an 18-year-old woman in Backnang.
January 31. A 30-year-old German, originally from Turkmenistan, raped a seven-year-old girl in Kiel. The man kidnapped the girl from a school playground at 11AM, took her to his apartment and, after abusing her, set her free. It later emerged that the man had been accused of sexually assaulting a five-year-old girl at another kindergarten in Kiel on January 18, but due to insufficient evidence, the public prosecutors failed to pursue the case.
Also on January 31, four unidentified migrants (ausländischem Aussehen) sexually assaulted a 17-year-old woman in Vilshofen. An unidentified "dark skinned" (dunkelhäutig) man assaulted a woman in Villingen. Two North African migrants sexually assaulted two 15-year-old girls in Salzgitter.
Wow another totally racist reply missing the point. From the list you mention I see very few that are from Syria, Iraq or Afghanistan the ones that make up the "1 million rapists" mentioned by John156. Most of those are North African migrants or Südlander, (which loosely translated means southern European - i.e. Balkan migrants). Note migrants not refugees.
Also you've listed 29 cases in the month of January across Deutschland. 29. Out of a population of 80 million. I would suggest this is a very small number across Deutschland for one month. That is not to say it is good. 1 is too many! there will always be bad apples, but to claim those figures mean every migrant or refugee is a raping scum bag is just blatant racist xenophobia. Pathetic really.
And to put your list in context:
http://www.thelocal.de/20160218/refugees-to-germany-commit-tiny-proportion-of-sex-crimes
You wouldn't want to leave out context, would you? Someone might think you were a despicable little shit with an axe to grind.
how staff choose to vote was “of course a personal choice”
Well yes. But its rather good to watch the Coalition of Vested Interests appealing largely to the liberal left to vote for them. So (by and large) all the readers of the Mirror and the Graun want to be absorbed into the bosom of European socialism, and by voting that way they'll be doing the bidding of people like Obama, Cameron, and big business.
At the core the referendum isn't about whether it would impact law or wealth, the short term impacts will be modest either way. It's about belief, values, and about sovereignty, and on what is therefore an emotional choice it seems to me that the "remain" supporters really ought to be warned off by the political and corporate elite who want them to vote "remain".
" it seems to me that the "remain" supporters really ought to be warned off by the political and corporate elite who want them to vote "remain"." --- AC
Even if one were to accept the idiocy of basing one's assessment of an argument on the characteristics of its proponents, you've still got to ask "Farage or Corbyn?" "Boris or Dave?" and "May or Gove?"
This statement is incidental to the Brexit debate. It may be xenophobic it does not mention race so cannot be classified as a racist statement. Either way, we have a right to our own opinion.
The truth is that most (90%+) of the migrants who crossed Europe were young (under 35) and male - meaning that many young women have been left to fend for themselves in Syria. These men may be of fighting age but they have decided not to defend their own country and instead have taken the opportunity to occupy someone else's country. My respect is for the Syrians and Iraqis who are defending their country from ISIS right now.
Regarding Brexit, I'm glad we're still officially a democracy and corporations don't get to vote, despite their attempts to sway public opinion for their short term profit. The EU / Brexit debate is about sovereignty which may be lost forever to future generations. Our ancestors here and in the US fought wars for independence but recently our independence has been given away by politicians without any democratic mandate (we only voted for a common market) and in contravention of our constitution.
Staying in the EU increasingly takes power away from local people and hands it to unelected commissars - remember MEPs only vote to pass laws, they don't propose them. Large corporations like centralised political control because there's fewer people to have to lobby / bribe to get their own way.
"Staying in the EU increasingly takes power away from local people and hands it to unelected commissars - remember MEPs only vote to pass laws, they don't propose them."
Sorry - but i just don't see your logic.
The EU is made up of 7 institutions, but lets focus on the 4 main ones of the European council, the council of the EU, the EU parliament and the EU commission.
The european council is made up of the heads of state of each member country. our representitive here is David Cameron. He was elected by the UK public.
The council of the european union is made up of the relevant ministers of each member state and you voted for them too - although their position on the council is dependent upon them holding a cabinet position - so it is a little different, but basically they too were elected by the UK public and then put forward for the position by their party leader (so David Cameron picks George Osbourne as chancellor and as long as he is chancellor, then he is on the council of europe). He is an elected MP, the UK public voted for him.
The european parliament has directly elected members and the electoral system is different to the first past the post system that you see in westminster elections, but the MEPs are elected by the UK public. We typically have a very poor turn out in European elections, but just because you didn't vote for one doesn't mean that they were not fairly elected by the UK public.
Finally, you have the european commision. people are appointed to the commission by the leader fo their country (so in this case, David Cameron). As with many other things, when you elect someone to parliament, you effectively say that they represent you and you trust them to make decisions that you would (broadly) support. This is another one of those situations. The comissioners are not directly elected, but the person appointing them is.
couple of important points:
1) the councils provide general direction on what the EU wants to get done and represent the government view
2) the comission is full of technical people who come up with ways of doing what will support the general direction as set by the council
3) the parliament represent the people of Europe and vote on that legislation
People seem to have a problem with the comission, but i don't understand why. They are doing a very similar role the the Civil service in the UK, who are completely unelected.
That make anything clearer?
more information here: (Wikipedia)
@AC
>So (by and large) all the readers of the Mirror and the Graun want to be absorbed into the bosom of European socialism, and by voting that way they'll be doing the bidding of people like Obama, Cameron, and big business.
Define "socialism", please - look it up, you can write, so I expect you to be able to read. You see, there is no such thing as 'European socialism' in this day and age ....
It would be greatly appreciated if people would look-up the meaning of words before they use them. I know BNP, UKIP, and St James Hospital's Patient Club in Portsmouth frequently use these words, however, that does NOT mean they make sense.
Proposed translation: Tech companies like IBM suck 90% of the value out of the local economy, before funneling that 90% through complex tax avoidance schemes to the benefit of their US shareholders and avoid paying corporation tax on the grounds that compliance with the spirit of the law is only optional for big wealthy multinationals
Although if your dad was a wealthy, tax dodging City barrow boy, then tax is also optional for your inheritance, to judge by the fine example Cameron has set.
I don't like tax dodging either, but your point would have more strength had the tax loopholes that allow people to avoid tax been closed by any of the many governments of all colours we've had in the last few decades.
If, as a country, we don't care about closing the loopholes, then it's about time we stopped whining about them. If we do, then we should stop whining and close them, then we can arrest people for evading tax because it won't be legal.
If, as a country, we don't care about closing the loopholes, then it's about time we stopped whining about them.
I think you'll find that "we" the population at large do care. Its successive idiots in government (of all colours) and in HMRC who have cut sweetheart deals, failed to enforce existing rules on transfer pricing, and failed to simplify the tax code to prevent abuse.
I'm doing my bit - I haven't voted for a party that has won a national election for about thirty years.
"That's what most wanted, but the EU, won't, can't or does not wish to reform."
Sure it can, and wish to. It changes all the time.
But if UK isn't in it, it sure as hell can't be part of the process.
To me the whole debate has become absurd.
What sort of a dream situation do the Brexiters believe will occur if leaving the EU?
It's just the old xenofobia, inflamed by ignorance, that's running riot IMO.
Fools like Boris are purely driven by a desire to gather more power for themselves, which is made possible (they instinctively believe) by lessening outside influences. He is so easy to read in all he does, the "bumbling" old-boys network fool. (Just as bad as "Red Ken")
IBM told employees in the UK that if UK leaves EU, it is likely to affect those same employees in the UK.
It's a statement of fact. Act accordingly, or ignore it. It's everyone's choice.
IBM, the multinational concern, may not even be all that concerned.
I can see them shrugging their shoulders if UK leaves EU, and move on.
Not so easy for all the employees in the UK.
It's the same story for many multinationals.
Make your country less attractive for investment, and you will get less investment.
That's not rocket science.
Funnily enough, it's hard to avoid a whiff of deja vu here, in particular:
1) The lack of a coherent (or indeed comprehensible) view of what "out" looks like
2) The repeated assertion by Brexiters of what "they" (i.e. the rest of the world) will do when Brexit happens. Meaning I either believe (for example) Obama, and the American establishment when they state their view (first hand), or I believe Boris' "explanation" of what they say.
I knew the independence campaign was rocky when Alex Salmond told his acolytes what I - and the rest of the UK would do when they got independence.
"1) The lack of a coherent (or indeed comprehensible) view of what "out" looks like"
Both sides of the campaign are pretty woolly on it, because basically neither has a clue. The 'out' lot think it'll all be green pastures and proudly flying union flags waving (but probably with most of it's colour gone as Scotland leaves, N.I collapses and Wales goes some time later).
The 'in' lot just see financial uncertainty mostly (apart from May, who seems to see a police state to the soundtrack of 'the sound of music').
The 'out' crowd may bristle at Mr Obamas perceived unwelcome involvement, but it'll not be his administration they have to deal with if they win, and the US will do their damnedest to get the upper hand shaft the UK on any deal.
Clearly neither option is a solution, the EU comission, not the body as a whole is the main problem point, most issues and perceived issues stem from its current formation.
Clearly neither option is a solution, the EU commission, not the body as a whole is the main problem point, most issues and perceived issues stem from its current formation.
Exactly. It's the commission which has too much power and more of it (like being able to propose new laws) needs to move to the parliament. The problem is that every national government has a vested interested in continuing to appoint commissioners, in much the same way that our PM gets to appoint his cabinet. The difference is that it's easier (for us and for the PM) to get rid of an incompetent or corrupt minister.
For what it's worth, I'd also want to see reform in the UK, not just in the House of Lords but also not allowing the PM to create a peer just so a favourite can be rewarded with a seat in the cabinet.
Absolutely.
"The problem is that every national government has a vested interested in continuing to appoint commissioners, in much the same way that our PM gets to appoint his cabinet."
- Yet this is one of the arguments for 'leaving', that the commissioners are somehow appointed with no involvement of the elected government? It's clearly fairly easy to sort that out to make the role of commissioner more traceable back to the will of the electorate, yet the remain people have not tackled it.
"it's easier (for us and for the PM) to get rid of an incompetent or corrupt minister."
- This is the 'lie' that a lot of the brexit people claim an 'out' vote will solve. I've rarely seen a corrupt minister 'gotten rid of' by the PM, and for the electorate, by the time elections come 'round again, it's been forgotten or wiggled out of.
An 'out' vote does nothing to ensure who the PM or whatever party manages to get in via the UKs vaguely democratic process appoints to positions of responsibility without requirement of being an elected official outside the EU, yet we don't see those so concerned with electoral accountability racing to denounce the Lords. So clearly that position is just red top inflamed flag waving.
@ ToddR
"I've rarely seen a corrupt minister 'gotten rid of' by the PM,
I'm not sure that's true at all, more an uneducated assumption."
I'm sure I vaguely remember a couple 'asked to step down', or voluntarily stepping down on some pretext, over the last twenty to twenty five years but 'rarely' sums it up 'well enough' without spending some hours researching...
@ JimmyPage
"1) The lack of a coherent (or indeed comprehensible) view of what "out" looks like"
More concerning is the lack of a coherent view of what 'in' looks like. Right now the EU has an unreliable currency, large increase in anti EU parties and permanently in crisis. It is well known that the EU cannot survive without reform which they call 'ever closer union' but dont really define it. There was concern of China slowing down and damaging our economy, but the EU is a far greater threat to that stability unless they somehow recover (miracle) or we rely less on them.
"2) The repeated assertion by Brexiters of what "they" (i.e. the rest of the world) will do when Brexit happens. Meaning I either believe (for example) Obama, and the American establishment when they state their view (first hand), or I believe Boris' "explanation" of what they say."
The world will do what the world does regardless. Obama is irrelevant, he is leaving soon and isnt sure if TIPP will go through before he leaves (and the next one may scupper it). Also jump on the bandwagon Boris can say whatever he wants too, who cares? It is possible the EU are children who will punish us for leaving, but then who the hell wants them as friends if they hate democracy so much? The US may put us to the back of the queue for TIPP, some people will be happy, some wont care, few will be truly bothered.
The EU vote is pretty simple. Do we elect who runs the country? Yes = out, no = in.
@ Graham Marsden
"Remind me again: What percentage of the votes did the Tories get which gave them a "majority" in Parliament?"
The majority, to the shock of a lot of people, including the tories who expected anther coalition. Looking it up the figure is almost 37% while labour got 30% with the rest being divided out. You might not like it but
Now lets see how many people we can name in the EU apart from Farage representing the UK. How many of us voted in the president of the EU?
Your choice of image is right. Doh!
"The majority, to the shock of a lot of people, including the tories who expected anther coalition. Looking it up the figure is almost 37% while labour got 30% with the rest being divided out. You might not like it but."
And you are proud of that?
'almost' 37% is a pitiable basis to run the country on. Hardly democratic at all. And we are being told we'll have more control 'out' of the EU?
I might not be able to name any EU clowns, but the only MP names I remember are usually only because they've made some asinine statement or generally otherwise being an 'arse'.
@ Teiwaz
"And you are proud of that?"
Actually yes. Over a third voted for those who won, approximately a third for the runner up. The one voted with majority won. The one people voted for were elected. The ones with a clear lead in support moved into power. Are you suggesting the same results should have somehow put a runner up in charge? Are you not proud that we have the freedom of election which is a right unlike many parts of the world? This is why some people deem it important to be able to vote (around the world) and are less happy when the right is removed.
"I might not be able to name any EU clowns, but the only MP names I remember are usually only because they've made some asinine statement or generally otherwise being an 'arse'."
Well said. Absolutely. And you can vote them out if they turn out to be that bad and you can vote for who you think will be good for running the country. We can remember some EU clowns such as Hollande who tanked the French economy and ruined the 'twin engine of europe'. We know Merkel for inviting the middle east into Germany and then trying to offload the problem onto the rest of the EU (even trying to do so through diktat). We remember Varoufakis and to a lesser extent Tsipras due to the destruction of Greece and the attempt to fight the EU. We will likely hear more of Spain, Italy, Portugal and more as their problems (currently hush hushed or amusingly claimed to be good) come to light. And we cant vote them out.
@codejunky
Hmm, I might even have been swayed by your opinion, until you reverted to usual 'brexit' form when you mentioned Merkel, then it just degenerated into the usual small minded bigot language.
1/3rd of the vote still seems a hardly democratic when you approach it outside the board game of the british first past the post / majority party system, and if it wasn't clear before that I was obviously inclined toward a more proportionally representative measure then it should be now (runner up? - current system would hardly see change if the person with the least votes was elected).
@ Teiwaz
"Hmm, I might even have been swayed by your opinion, until you reverted to usual 'brexit' form when you mentioned Merkel, then it just degenerated into the usual small minded bigot language."
Of course you would (not). And of course it degenerated into what you choose to see and interpret. For all of the truth and reason of various facts about the EU and its many troubles which 'might have swayed you', you then selectively choose one of them you choose to view as small minded and bigoted and somehow disregard all the others? And so you were not going to be swayed because you look for an excuse to disregard what you disagree with.
So how did it degenerate into small minded and bigoted? You may need to check recent news of Merkel disregarding law (apply for asylum in the first safe country) and offering asylum to any Syrian who makes it to Germany. The deals she is having to do with Afghanistan and Turkey to restrict non Syrians trying to exploit the offer. And of course the negotiations with Turkey and the demands that other partners of the EU need to take some of these asylum seekers because there are too many for Germany to cope. Please do amuse me by refuting these points or reassess your excuse.
"1/3rd of the vote still seems a hardly democratic when you approach it outside the board game of the british first past the post / majority party system"
You make an interesting and somewhat valid point. The first part I disagree with as a greater vote should count as a winner, but FPTP is unpopular. So lets vote for parties willing to change it. We have an EU referendum because UKIP were so ridiculously successful as the main parties ignored the people. Why cant we do that with FPTP? It is our voting system, our election system and we get to vote.
I never understand the argument that we have the democratic right to vote here but dont like the outcome so we should give up more democracy. If the house is on fire you apply water not petrol.
""Hmm, I might even have been swayed by your opinion, until you reverted to usual 'brexit' form when you mentioned Merkel, then it just degenerated into the usual small minded bigot language."
Of course you would (not)."
Nope, it was not the facts, but the tone that put me off (your first paragraph I agreed with, and still do)... About your reference to Merkel disregarding law I had a hard time finding reference on Reuters. If you are referring to the migrant relocation to Turkey situation then I knew about it, but your summary was hardly recognisable I wasn't sure it wasn't a new development. Perhaps if your couched things in less incendiary terms first then give your opinion rather than feeding fact couched in how your perceive it.
I still hold that we're being asked to vote on the wrong question. The EU is not even where the system is broken, it's only a symptom. it is broken closer to home. UKIP were pointing in the wrong direction from the start, and most of the major parties are still in denial that there is a problem.
If the roof of every house in the street is on fire, pulling down the houses adjacent to you will not save your house.
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