back to article Two Sundays wrecked by boss who couldn't use a calendar

Thank Bibulous it's Friday, because I can write this and go home. And you can read it and revel in another episode of On-Call, our end-of-week amusement-inducer in which we revisit readers' remembrances of things thankfully past. This week, reader Murray told us about a gig in which his employer ran its own data centre. And …

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  1. Tom 7

    At least make sure your contract include TOIL

    I dont mind the odd bit of out of hours but being expected to work for free seems to be a bit too common these days.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: At least make sure your contract include TOIL

      When it comes to work there is one unbreakable rule

      NEVER work for free

      Don't get paid overtime, don't do it. Why the hell was he even on-call if he knew he wasn't going to be paid?

      1. John Crisp

        Re: At least make sure your contract include TOIL

        "When it comes to work there is one unbreakable rule

        NEVER work for free"

        Try telling my boss that.

        Divorce would undoubtedly follow.

        Now there's a thought........

        :-)

    2. hplasm
      Headmaster

      Re: At least make sure your contract include TOIL

      To be accurate- it doesn't say he wasn't paid, but he wasn't paid Extra for the overtime.

      ie The US model...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: At least make sure your contract include TOIL

        >To be accurate- it doesn't say he wasn't paid, but he wasn't paid Extra for the overtime.

        Maybe you interpret this differently "and, worst of all, his contract didn't include overtime"

        1. hplasm
          Meh

          Re: At least make sure your contract include TOIL

          Maybe you interpret this differently "and, worst of all, his contract didn't include overtime"

          Indeed- it also didn't say that he worked on weekends for nothing.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: At least make sure your contract include TOIL

        "ie The US model..."

        Aka the "like hell I'm doing that" model. ANY job I'm offered, there has to be a provision for OT or TOIL for any work ourside contracted weekly hours - it's the only dealkiller for any offer.

        Without that, a "Can you just hang on an hour?" quickly turns into "You're ok to give up your saturday arent you?" and you have no recourse because it's "in your contract".

        OT/TOIL is (imo) the best protection from the situation above. Questions would be raised abut the boss who had to sign off on 16+ hours OT at 2x that were mostly unnecessary.

      3. glen waverley

        Re: At least make sure your contract include TOIL

        Or what we in Oz call penalty rates. IE saturday morning = time and a half or 1.5X, Saturday arve and Sunday = double time or 2X.

        TOIL is a swiz as you never seem to be able to schedule the time off in lieu.

        I suspect the US model might be ordinary time. Pls don.t tell me its free as in "we expect commitment"

        1. Chris Griffiths

          Re: At least make sure your contract include TOIL

          From my (admittedly limited) exposure, the entire US model is basically "we expect commitment".

          Cant do this last-minute shift-change on Friday? Don't bother coming in Monday!

          Say what you like about the UK, at least our employment law does something to protect employees (as in, you cant be fired on the spot and find yourself instantly out of a job)

          1. Richard 81

            Re: At least make sure your contract include TOIL

            "Say what you like about the UK, at least our employment law does something to protect employees"

            You just wait.

            1. Daz555

              Re: At least make sure your contract include TOIL

              That will be EU employment law....wait until the Tories get free reign to tear it up all the name of "helping business prosper". It will not be pretty.

          2. tfewster
            Happy

            Re: At least make sure your contract include TOIL

            > Cant do this last-minute shift-change on Friday? Don't bother coming in Monday!

            Woo-hoo! Four-day weekend! <Homer Simpson ------------------------->

          3. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: At least make sure your contract include TOIL

            >From my (admittedly limited) exposure, the entire US model is basically "we expect commitment".

            And it took me nearly 15 years in my current career but I found the only company that has earned my commitment to come in on a Sunday due to problems without a second thought. Of course to do so they hired me as salaried employee with a the highest consistent salary of my career (well above market), best benefits ever had including very generous stock options. They also have never laid off anyone but contractors or employees of companies purchased in two decades (during great recession company asked everyone to take temporary salary reductions instead and paid back several times over after the recession ended with special bonus) and made money every quarter for a very long time. As well they let me work from home when I really need it for family etc with no hassle. Dying breed is this company but they should last until I retire which is how long I plan to work for them. When they ask for things I tend to answer yes without much thought and I have tended to be more of a malcontent in the past.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: At least make sure your contract include TOIL

          The thing is that overtime, time off in lieu and even just plain "additional hours" are all on the way out, even in the UK. The days when weekend or bank holiday working (scheduled or otherwise) automatically attracted a 1.25x / 1.5x / 2x multiplier, or a flat-rate premium payment are numbered, except for those very few people who are so vital to a company's business that they can basically set their own pay rates and conditions.

          My very first proper job <ahem> years ago had the "...and other hours to suit the company" clause in the contract, and expected me to share a pager (with my boss, so guess who got it 75% of the time?), come in at all hours and man the department when sleep-deprived. TOIL was theoretically available, but very difficult to schedule and officially expired after (IIRC) the second month (i.e. as little as 5 weeks).

          My current employers (hence AC) have just removed weekend premium payments from all previously eligible staff. There was a "buy out" of some description, but although the deal was ok-ish for lower grades, higher grades had a much less generous offer, and a 0% basic pay rise for the third or fourth year in a row. The thing is that weekend working is required, and rota'd, and if you make a fuss there is always someone looking for work who is perfectly willing to do the job for less money.

          Now, I'll grant that I now work in the public sector where belts are being severely tightened but this is not new and not confined to the public sector.

          It's coming, believe me...

          1. wikkity

            Re: It's coming, believe me...

            If that's the case one thing that won't be coming is me, into the office at the weekend.

          2. Antron Argaiv Silver badge
            Thumb Up

            Re: At least make sure your contract include TOIL

            "...and other hours to suit the company"

            This can work both ways, if your boss is human. After the first weekend, when the boss sheepishly mentioned he screwed up the dates, that was Murray's cue to gently chide him about planning, or lack of it, and its consequent effect on Murray's time off..

            The second weekend, when he came in, again unpaid, to do the boss a favor, well, that's when it's time for a little heart-to-heart with the boss. As in, "I've been in here for two weekends running, and both have been unnecessary interruptions to my time weekends. I think I'm feeling sick, and I won't be in for the rest of the week."

            If the boss is a jerk about it, maybe it's time to look for a new boss. A human boss will understand and sign off on the sick days.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: At least make sure your contract include TOIL

              My Current Firm only pay overtime for staff on less that £28k, for some reason. Everyone else gets TOIL but is expected to dedeicate themselves to the company mind, body and soul. This blurs the lines between "working late to get something done" and "fuck me, i had to get up at 4AM to drive 'oop north' and didn't get home until 9PMN the next day"

              Out of hours work entices a 10% uplift in salary just for being on the rota and a flat fee per call-out, plus TOIL. However this is rarely cashed in as we are too busy to catch up with this.

              I think i am currently owed about 3 months TOIL if i added it all up, but that would be really penny pinching.

              1. Mark 85

                Re: At least make sure your contract include TOIL

                Everyone else gets TOIL but is expected to dedeicate themselves to the company mind, body and soul.

                This is very common in the States. Certain job classifications it's "you're ours 24/7". However, this loyalty/work ethic only goes one way and doesn't apply to them. Firings happen at the drop of a hat for almost any reason. Yes, they may pay straight hours (no OT add-on) for extra time, but that's about it. Look to places like Google where employees practically live in the office (or so the rumors go).

                1. mhoulden

                  Re: At least make sure your contract include TOIL

                  Those free gyms, laundrettes, breakfasts, etc aren't there just to be nice. Breakfast makes sure you're in early and the health and wellbeing stuff is supposed to reduce the number of unproductive sick days. Other things keep you at your desk so you work longer.

                  1. Anonymous Coward
                    Anonymous Coward

                    Re: At least make sure your contract include TOIL

                    Shame that I don't use these items or offers as they do not replace the worth of money in my life, nor time.

                    Bribing me with a gym is not going to work, as it is wrong to expect me to use it, it is tantamount to bribery, it is almost coercion.

                    In short, a gift you don't need or want is not a gift but a mistake.

                    1. Kiwi
                      Headmaster

                      Re: At least make sure your contract include TOIL

                      ...it is tantamount to bribery...

                      Just out of interest, what would you call the practice of giving people money to do something they otherwise would be quite unwilling to do?

                      You know, like giving them money to go into your business at times you specify and produce goods or services you also specify. Wouldn't that be tantamount to bribery?

                      (toss up between grammar nazi or joke alert icon...)

              2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

                Re: At least make sure your contract include TOIL

                "I think i am currently owed about 3 months TOIL if i added it all up, but that would be really penny pinching."

                3 months worth of unpaid overtime and you call that penny pinching? You must be on a whacking great salary or your boss has some bloody good blackmail material on you!

            2. GrumpyOldMan

              Re: At least make sure your contract include TOIL

              Commitment works both ways. I'd expect a boss to be committed to his staff and the company to be committed to their staff as much as the other way round.

        3. Alan Brown Silver badge

          Re: At least make sure your contract include TOIL

          "TOIL is a swiz as you never seem to be able to schedule the time off in lieu."

          A relative ran into this one working for local govt.

          . She ended up taking legal advice and got 3 months accumulated TOIL off (she would have preferred the monry up front but $employer wouldn't do that. Shortly after returning, she and the entire city secretariat(*) resigned en masse and subsequently won a very large settlement for constructive dismissal.

          (*) City secretaries are "keeper of secrets" type employees, not the typing pool. When 25+ of them all leave at once due to to the actions of the city manager you can rest assured the organisation has major problems. By all accounts there have been mass resignations in other departments since then.

    3. AceRimmer1980
      Thumb Down

      Re: At least make sure your contract include TOIL

      Every - but *every* - gig I've had since leaving uni has had some kind of clause such as 'These are your contracted hours. You may be required to perform duties outside of these hours. This will be unpaid, and with no TOIL.'

      You only learn this on the day you start, after you may have already gone to the expense of moving to another town etc. You sign it, or you don't get paid.

      Also: 'Any work you do is ours. This includes work done outside the office, in your own time, and on your own equipment.'

      1. Anonymous Custard

        Re: At least make sure your contract include TOIL

        This sounds horribly familiar from a few years back during one of the downturns, when our paid overtime got cancelled and replaced with TOIL.

        Unfortunately even though it was a financial downturn, we still had plenty of work to actually do. And the management got rather upset when I asked them to increase the 300 hour TOIL limit as I'd max'd out, especially when I pointed out we hadn't got any time to take any of it, and that if I just took it all alongside my normal holiday and bank holiday entitlement, I'd come back in February (this was said in September).

        Worked out quite nicely, with a couple of months worth of hours getting paid off conveniently close to Christmas...

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: At least make sure your contract include TOIL

        I've always tried to avoid doing on-call if I could as in my experience employers always put draconian rules on what they expected of the on-call person - basically you will answer the phone and you will be online within 5 minutes etc that meant that you had much of the inconvenience of being at work whilst being paid a pittance to do it. I wonder how it fits in with minimum wage legislation (hmm what does google say...)?

        1. Martin an gof Silver badge

          Re: At least make sure your contract include TOIL

          answer the phone and you will be online within 5 minutes etc

          In the days before mass mobile phones I worked for a radio station which was based in a city centre. I was expected to fix anything and everything vaguely "technical" (and a lot more besides) on premises, at any hour of the day or night yet I was almost the lowest-paid employee, just above the cleaner and the "roadie". I couldn't afford a mobile 'phone, but had to be within ten minutes of a phone whenever on call (which sort of ruined dog walks) and within 45 minutes of the radio station which was tight, considering how far out of town I had to live in order to afford a place on my salary.

          On the whole however, I did enjoy the job. Call-outs weren't all that often and my boss was a bit of a hoot. The worst part was some (by no means all) of the "on air" talent, who would get all shirty if you didn't ring in as soon as they'd put the phone down to the pager company, and who often refused to perform simple remedial tasks which would have sorted the problem - even if only temporarily - and enabled them to get on with things while I travelled in to sort out the root cause.

          Most common was refusing to switch to the "spare" studio despite failing equipment making working in the "main" studio very difficult. The studios were within about three or four footsteps of each other, but the swap-over procedure involved an "offer, accept, release" procedure that was easy with two people, but meant moving a couple of times between studios if there was no-one else available. Their biggest complaint however was "but it means putting all my records back in my boxes and moving them!"

          Made a point once. A couple of years into the job I had had a bit of a salary increase and managed to save up enough for a mobile phone. One weekend I was up a local mountain with the dog and my parents when the pager went off. The problem was easily worked-around by moving a pair of jack plugs in the patch panel just behind where the presenter in question was sitting, but he flat out refused to do so, so I bundled mum and dad and the dog into the car, trundled down to the studio, and took the dog in with me, who proceded to snuffle around the presenter's legs while I swapped the jacks, fixed the root cause (which could easily have been left until Monday) and swapped the jacks back.

          Didn't seem to bother the presenter...

          ...and as for the number of times I was called in for the likes of "yes, the printer is definitely 'on line'"...

          When I left the company (to do a post-grad course on something unrelated) they didn't replace me. My boss left soon afterwards, and they found getting a replacement very difficult. For several months I found myself on a "retainer" to the radio station which was only a little lower than my original salary, with call-outs on top at twice my previous hourly rate. They'll only pay what you are worth when they realise what you are worth.

          M.

          Oh, and my replacement lasted a year, after which the radio station moved premises (so all new kit) and did away with technical staff altogether, coming to a call-out-only arrangement with another radio station some 60 minutes drive away, though as the record players and cart machines were gone as were most of the CD players, with networked computers playing out most content, a lot of fixing could now be done on-line. Nobody is irreplaceable.

      3. Down not across

        Re: At least make sure your contract include TOIL

        Also: 'Any work you do is ours. This includes work done outside the office, in your own time, and on your own equipment.'

        I think this one could be difficult to enforce. What you do on your own time on your own equipment has sweet FA to do with the company.

      4. Allan George Dyer

        Re: At least make sure your contract include TOIL

        "Also: 'Any work you do is ours. This includes work done outside the office, in your own time, and on your own equipment.'"

        So, if I rob a bank at the weekend, the Directors go to jail? Are you sure you want that clause?

      5. getHandle

        Re: At least make sure your contract include TOIL

        The "Any work you do is ours" clause is easily avoided by having a "very productive" weekend right after you quit!

      6. OliP

        Re: At least make sure your contract include TOIL

        have you ever asked for these clauses to be removed?

        i was put in a similar position once, they were first shocked i didnt just sign the contract...

        i asked for a clause about inventions to be removed as it was just a land grab on anything i might have made outside of work - they claim they didnt know the clause was in there and removed it.

        similarly around "you may be required....outside of these hours" pay me or i dont work for you, its very simple

        1. Martin an gof Silver badge

          Re: At least make sure your contract include TOIL

          The "inventions" clause is almost ubiquitous, at least the "while on company time" one. I don't think many would have a problem with that one - after all, that's what you are employed to do. I personally have never come across a similar clause covering things you do outside working hours but if I did I'd want to do something about it.

          similarly around "you may be required....outside of these hours" pay me or i dont work for you, its very simple

          Define "pay". Rarely does such a clause come with nothing but it often comes with a very low level of pay, or an impossible-to-cash "payment" such as Time Off In Lieu.

          The problem is that if you won't do it, someone else will. Unless you have unquestionably vital or unique skills, or can persuade your employers that you do, it is very easy simply not to renew a contract at the end of the "probation" period - which is often as long as a year - and employ a recent graduate who has very nearly the same skill set but is desperate to get a "proper" job to add to his/her CV, is probably single and child-free so much more flexible regarding working hours, holiday and the like and will put in the extra effort for little reward that you can't or won't.

          We've all been there. Think back to your first "proper" job...

          M.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: At least make sure your contract include TOIL

            "I personally have never come across a similar clause covering things you do outside working hours but if I did I'd want to do something about it."

            Seem to recall a story from the early days of home computers in the UK (ZX80 era) where some people who worked at ICL wrote some games which they sold via ads in PCW etc where they made a big deal of the programs being "written by top computer programmers at ICL" ....these were brought to ICL's attention who pointed the programmers to the clause in their contracts which stated that all computing related creations belonged to ICL and asked them to hand over the money!

            N.b. a few years ago I ad an offer from a company that I ended up declining (for other reasons) which seemed to require premission from HR to take on any other "job" which was explicitly stated to include any activity as a volunterr

          2. John Tserkezis

            Re: At least make sure your contract include TOIL

            "The problem is that if you won't do it, someone else will."

            So you're saying you would rather prostitute yourself, rather than some else who's willing?

            Somewhere along the line, you have to say "it just ain't worth it".

            1. Martin an gof Silver badge

              Re: At least make sure your contract include TOIL

              So you're saying you would rather prostitute yourself, rather than some else who's willing?

              No, I am saying that while there are willing people out there, there is no pressure on employers to change their practices. You may have very little leverage in your current job and have to put up with it. That does not mean you shouldn't be out there looking for a better job, but neither does it mean you have to walk away from such a job if you don't have something else already lined up. Some of us have mortgages and families (and other stuff) to support.

              It is particularly likely to happen to young or inexperienced people, and the only way permanently out of such a situation is to get yourself into a position where you do have vital and (preferably) unique skills that the employer would struggle to replace.

              That is not to condone employers who take advantage of willing people. To take an extreme example I have a particular hatred of the unpaid "internship" arrangements common among some employers, feel they should be outlawed, and am surprised that they aren't already.

              M.

        2. Vic

          Re: At least make sure your contract include TOIL

          i asked for a clause about inventions to be removed

          I had to get a clause removed when I went contracting a few years back.

          They offered me their "standard" contract, which required that I give them the copyrights to any software I used. I told them I couldn't do that - and nor could anyone else.

          What they wanted was the copyright to anything I wrote - which was completely reasonable. But the contract as worded would require me to furnish them with the copyrights to both GNU/Linux and MS Windows, since I wrote for both.

          There were many contractors at this company. Apparently, I was the first ever to require a change to the contract (and I got it).

          Vic.

        3. h4rm0ny

          Re: At least make sure your contract include TOIL

          >>"have you ever asked for these clauses to be removed?"

          I have. Specifically, I wanted explicit agreement that something I was willing to do which was out of spec for my role I would have IP rights to. Went back and forth for nearly a month with my direct manager giving me lots of verbal assurances but refusing to put anything in written form ever. Until I went over her head to the board and told them flat out I would leave if they didn't agree to this and they told her to sign an agreement. She was extremely unhappy. I got what I wanted.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Powering up in the right order

    "Murray hustled his way to the office and “began the 4 hour process of gracefully shutting down every (mostly non-virtual back then) server, knowing full well this was going to take me at least 12 hours to get everything back on in the right order"

    Is it possible to design a network that will automatically recover regardless of the order that the machines are powered on?

    1. Aqua Marina

      Re: Powering up in the right order

      If you are given the budget and the time to do so, yes*. Unfortunately time and money are very rare things when it comes to IT spending.

      *But even then there are always the hacks that spring to the surface that some developer put together to solve an immediate problem, with the intention of doing it properly later. However due to the lack of time and money, the re-writes never occur, and everything comes crashing down at reboot because of one unfixed quickfix.

    2. hplasm
      Boffin

      Re: Powering up in the right order

      "Is it possible to design a network that will..."

      The 'network' would probably be fine. The convoluted jenga stack that passes for 'modern' servers, not so much.

      1. Nolveys

        Re: Powering up in the right order

        The convoluted jenga stack that passes for 'modern' servers, not so much.

        A lunatic sketch-lord I used to work for had two server racks. One day the server at the very bottom of one of the racks failed. There were three 4u servers on top of the failed server, a bunch of UPSes on top of that and some networking hardware on top of those. Did I mention that none of this stuff was actually attached to the rack? It was all just a big pile of schlarf.

        Due to the rats nest of cabling in the back it would have been impossible to lower the pile down while removing the bottom server. I disconnected the bottom server and, bit-by-bit, pulled it out whilst shoving random office shit in place of where it had been.

        Once the server was fixed I just tossed it on top of the whole horror show and reconnected it. Over time the foundation of office shit progressively and non uniformly compressed causing the pile to skew noticeably.

        Ah memories.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Powering up in the right order

      In theory yes. You can have a management server that is responsible for powering on everything else in the correct order, performing internal checks that verifies that there are no problems, and generating appropriate e-mails if it encounters any issues. The problem with this is that it is an incredibly complex problem to solve (you have to define all of the hardware and software dependencies in order to allow the systems to restart in the correct order) and requires some specialised equipment to automate the equipment power-on. This in turn makes it very expensive to implement; given the number of times it would actually be required it is generally more cost effective to haul in a system admin to do the job. Besides, a person on site can also resolve any hardware problems as they occur.

      1. Chris King

        Re: Powering up in the right order

        You would also need to make sure that the management server had no dependencies on other systems ("What do you mean, the DHCP and DNS servers haven't booted up yet ?") and that it is regularly checked to make sure it works ahead of when it's needed - otherwise it's "Damage Repair System damaged, Captain !"

        1. Nolveys

          Re: Powering up in the right order

          You would also need to make sure that the management server had no dependencies on other systems...

          The dependencies for the management server could easily be brought up in the necessary order by using another management server. I swear, I have to think of everything.

      2. Vic

        Re: Powering up in the right order

        The problem with this is that it is an incredibly complex problem to solve (you have to define all of the hardware and software dependencies in order to allow the systems to restart in the correct order)

        It's not *that* complex; I've done it a number of times. Puppet is my tool of choice.

        The tricky bit is coping with failure - and importantly, what happens when your primary machine for a particular service takes so long to boot that the secondary has already started doing the job. These things take a bit of thinking about...

        The trick, as ever, is to keep everything as simple as possible. And no simpler.

        Vic.

      3. druck Silver badge

        Re: Powering up in the right order

        alannorthants wrote:

        The problem with this is that it is an incredibly complex problem to solve (you have to define all of the hardware and software dependencies in order to allow the systems to restart in the correct order) and requires some specialised equipment to automate the equipment power-on.

        Networked PDU's aren't that specialised. Each socket can be controlled by sending commands over ssh.

        1. Vic

          Re: Powering up in the right order

          Networked PDU's aren't that specialised. Each socket can be controlled by sending commands over ssh.

          At least one popular brand also responds to SNMP. There's some fun waiting to happen if you get an intruder on the network for a while...

          Vic.

  3. magickmark
    Pint

    Thank Bibulous it's Friday

    "Thank Bibulous it's Friday, because I can write this and go home."

    Oh God, maybe some Wow-Wow source will help so you'll be fit again for Monday?

    1. Kane
      Pint

      Re: Thank Bibulous it's Friday

      "Oh God, maybe some Wow-Wow source will help so you'll be fit again for Monday?"

      Nah, Bibulous will be fine, he never suffers the hangover.

      Poor Bilious though...

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