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back to article Smell burning? Samsung’s 'Death Note 7' could still cause a contagion

Samsung’s rivals in the cut-throat flagship phone market shouldn’t pop open the champagne just yet. While in the short term, Sony, HTC and Google could see some upside from Samsung’s now-deceased “Death Note”, in the long term the market and the consumer benefit from a high margin leader. But it would be a dead cat bounce: a …

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  1. James 51

    It's a pity about the note 7, it was the Android that made me think seriously about leaving BB10 based on the merits of the phone rather than a lack of support for the former. Perhaps a Note 8 with a removable battery will roll along in 12 or 18 months.

    The S6 isn't a bad phone, just a pity its battery life is utterly abysmal. If I use it full pelt I'd be lucky to get 90 minutes out of it.

    1 0 Reply
    1. Ru'
      Reply Icon
      Unhappy

      I'm still soldiering on with my S5, couldn't see much of a reason to upgrade until the Note 7 came along.

      Now I've been hit with a double whammy; the '7 is no more, and my work are about to molest an iphone onto me.

      3 3 Reply
      1. John 90
        Reply Icon

        You can soldier on with an S5, but with an S7 you could solder on ...

        22 0 Reply
      2. BillG
        Reply Icon
        Mushroom

        Is Apple to Blame? Conspiracy Theoriests Unite!

        Samsung put on its concerned face, briefly, and pressed ahead with a global launch. It was forced to undertake a global recall in mid-September, shifting the blame to its battery supplier.

        It is the fault of the battery supplier.

        Lithium batteries are not supposed to catch fire. They are supposed to have overcharge and short-circuit protection built in and the chips that do that are almost fool-proof. My engineering guess, and it's a guess, is that it is the physical construction of the lithium battery cells that is causing the problem.

        However, one cannot rule out manufacturing sabotage. Would Apple stoop that low?

        5 9 Reply
        1. Jeffrey Nonken
          Reply Icon

          Re: Is Apple to Blame? Conspiracy Theoriests Unite!

          Could be the battery manufacturer, but lithium ion batteries in particular seem susceptible to this sort of failure. Methinks we've gotten a bit ahead of the science -- we haven't quite figured out how to keep this particular bit of high-density energy storage remain reliably stable. Yet we're building entire technologies around it, and pushing its limits every chance we get.

          0 0 Reply
        2. Brewster's Angle Grinder Silver badge
          Reply Icon

          Re: Is Apple to Blame? Conspiracy Theoriests Unite!

          @BillG Then why did changing battery suppliers not fix it then? (See tiesx150's comment below.)

          0 0 Reply
          1. BillG
            Reply Icon

            Re: Is Apple to Blame? Conspiracy Theoriests Unite!

            @BillG Then why did changing battery suppliers not fix it then?

            @Brewster, because in today's supply chain often changing the supplier just means the same product built elsewhere. The other battery supplier could be a "second source", meaning they make the exact same product with the same specs as the primary supplier, but manufactured elsewhere. This type of second sourcing addresses defects in manufacturing, but unfortunately not defects in product design. Samsung is so secretive about this that we may never know if that is the case.

            Modern lithium batteries contain circuits, simple circuits that protect against overvoltage charging, so if the phone is sending too high a charging voltage to the battery the battery decreases the voltage. Same for short-circuit protection and anything else you want to connect to the battery terminals. The technology to do this is proven and mature, so if that simple circuitry failed it's true incompetence. That leaves the battery chemistry suspect.

            BTW my Apple sabotage comment was tongue-in-cheek, so lighten up Francis, but if you do not think industrial sabotage goes on today then you do not know modern business.

            0 0 Reply
        3. Ashley_Pomeroy
          Reply Icon

          Re: Is Apple to Blame? Conspiracy Theoriests Unite!

          iFixIt has a teardown of the Note - the battery is crammed behind a wireless charging coil, and is hemmed in with a little cradle which is supposed to reinforce the case. I wonder if the tight packing causes the battery to overheat, or if the reinforcements paradoxically cause the battery to crack if the phone bends.

          0 0 Reply
        4. Anonymous Coward
          Reply Icon
          WTF?

          Re: Is Apple to Blame? Conspiracy Theoriests Unite!

          Seriously? How exactly could Apple possibly accomplish this? The dodgy battery supplier was Samsung SDI (yeah, Samsung itself owns "only" 30%, but those companies are an insane maze of cross ownership, so I'll bet the Lee family actually owns a majority if not 100% share of it)

          You're suggesting that Apple got someone on the inside in Samsung or at least a subsidiary, and got them to produce batteries likely to explode without anyone finding out? And then got them to choose a Chinese supplier for the replacement batteries that STILL exploded?

          Or if the batteries actually aren't the problem, they inserted a flaw in the Note 7 hardware itself?

          Why Apple? If anyone could accomplish this, it would be more likely to be LG, since they are both Korean companies and probably have some employee movement between the two. Also, Apple would benefit little from Samsung having problems - it isn't like Note 7 customers are going to flee to Apple, most of them are likely to stick with Android. Unless Apple's infiltration squad is going to take down all the high end Android phones...if so look out Google, Apple is coming for the Pixel!

          2 1 Reply
        5. kyndair
          Reply Icon

          Re: Is Apple to Blame? Conspiracy Theoriests Unite!

          yes and no, with fixed batteries some manufacturers are saving a few cents by doing it on the phone side rather than battery side (i.e. fabbing it into their bespoke soc rather than separate fail-safe control in the battery), this could be the case here with someone having messed up the calculations and phone pushing or pulling to much on the battery (or both)

          0 0 Reply
          1. Anonymous Coward
            Reply Icon
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Is Apple to Blame? Conspiracy Theoriests Unite!

            Why Apple, maybe ISIS infiltrated Samsungs supply chain...

            2 0 Reply
            1. Anonymous Coward
              Reply Icon
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Is Apple to Blame? Conspiracy Theoriests Unite!

              ISIS

              Explosions.

              Sounds like an Archer plot...yeah I'd go with ISIS!

              0 0 Reply
        6. JeffyPoooh
          Reply Icon
          Pint

          Re: Is Apple to Blame? Conspiracy Theoriests Unite!

          "... short-circuit protection built in..."

          If it's an internal short circuit (a la Sony a few years ago), then there's nothing that an electronic circuit can do. The solution has to be built into the chemistry and physical design of the cell, to self-limit the total energy released when things go wrong.

          Some lithium primary (non rechargeable) used in aircraft ELTs are (reportedly) so well designed and qualified that a nail can be hammered through without too much excitement. But other examples set fire to 787s parked at Heathrow. So it's not yet universal.

          0 0 Reply
          1. YetAnotherLocksmith Silver badge
            Reply Icon

            Re: Is Apple to Blame? Conspiracy Theoriests Unite!

            It's one line of code. Seriously, it isn't even that: it's one variable, the firmware charge voltage is set too high.

            The charge voltage is set to 4.3V in the first explodo-phones, & the replacement units have it at at a frankly stupid 4.35V! Safe charging on a LiPo battery is 4.23V, absolute max, 4.2V is regarded as the same upper limit.

            It is also a one second firmware fix! So what the hell is really going on?

            0 1 Reply
            1. Alan Johnson
              Reply Icon

              Re: Is Apple to Blame? Conspiracy Theoriests Unite!

              What is this based on. Do you actually have inside knowledge? Why if it is that simple has it not been done? In every system I have designed the battery charge voltage limit is implemented in electronics and NOT software for very obvious reasons.

              I call b******t.

              1 0 Reply
              1. YetAnotherLocksmith Silver badge
                Reply Icon

                Re: Is Apple to Blame? Conspiracy Theoriests Unite!

                Yes, and that's how it should've been here - but it wasn't. You can go google the teardown yourself, the original Note7 firmware charged the battery to 4.3V, and the replacement bumped it up to a stupid 4.35V! Yes, they were meant to be able to take it, but surely the sensible thing to do would've been to turn it down, not up!

                0 0 Reply
        7. macjules
          Reply Icon

          Re: Is Apple to Blame? Conspiracy Theoriests Unite!

          I gather that they have now joined the burnfest, Exploding iPhone 7: http://en.people.cn/n3/2016/1011/c90000-9125517.html

          0 0 Reply
    2. N13L5
      Reply Icon

      This report's starting conclusions are pretty ridiculous and imaginary.

      If the 800 pound phone gorilla falls, its SOMEHOW bad for the other guys?

      AND The phone market "needs a high margin leader" Maybe so, but anyone of the other capable companies can take over that position. Could well be Sony, the most prominent brand name among the competitors, or the Chinese giant, but they have an unpronounceable name and aren't even well regarded in Shenzhen or Hong Kong.

      Its not like we're loosing Google, who really is the 800 pound "leader", not Samsung.

      I doubt anybody is ready to count out Samsung yet. The reputation gained from a long line of reliable and capable phones over many years doesn't die from a single massive mistake.

      But yeah, you can see how and why Corporation's products, strategies and especially their words can't and shouldn't be trusted. They're almost as incapable of telling or admitting the truth of anything as Secret Services are, like CIA, MI6, FBI, NSA, KGB etc. And their pure focus on money taints everything.

      0 0 Reply
  2. Gene Cash Silver badge

    Just don't buy a Samsung

    I'm the biggest Android fanboi outside of Sundar Pichai but I wouldn't touch Samsung's "TouchPiss" UI with his 10ft pole.

    Buy a Nexus. Or a Pixel (but not from Verizon)

    1 11 Reply
    1. James 51
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      Re: Just don't buy a Samsung

      You could stick a launcher like Hub on to take the edge of it.

      0 0 Reply
      1. Danny 14
        Reply Icon

        Re: Just don't buy a Samsung

        I didnt buy a carrier locked note 3 so it wasnt app locked either. Just put a different (or vanilla) launcher, it isnt hard.

        0 0 Reply
    2. P. Lee
      Reply Icon

      Re: Just don't buy a Samsung

      Or do buy a Samsung.

      They'll be really cheap and the chance of them actually exploding is still really small.

      1 1 Reply
  3. tiesx150

    I hope they identify and release details of what caused these devices to randomly turn into pocket bombs.

    My guess is a hardware issue with the charge circuitry. I don't know enough about the science behind LION charging but i was under the impression Samsung don't use standardised charging tech in their phones.... Pretty sure my S7 doensn't have/support Qualcomm quick-charge, i think its called Samsung fastcharge something along those lines..... if they have stopped production completely and ordered a full recall i can only assume this is a fundamental design failure that cant be fixed rather than a dodgy batch of components? Anyone wiith the know-how have thoughts/suggestions/theories ?

    3 0 Reply
  4. David Roberts

    From hipster to idiot in 30 seconds?

    Owning a new bling phone has flipped from being on trend to on fire.

    The shame of being tricked by Samsung is going to last for a while.

    2 20 Reply
  5. andy 103

    How to damage a brand in one easy step

    It's hard to quantify how much damage this will do to Samsung.

    The bottom line is this - nobody should be scared of their mobile phone/tablet exploding or catching fire. Given the proximity in which we use these things (and possibly charge them next to our heads whilst asleep), that's just a totally unacceptable position.

    It doesn't matter what they try and blame it on. At the end of the day, it's a product with their name on it. It's not a budget/cheapo device and has come from a manufacturer that has tried to sell itself on the quality of it's hardware.

    It'll be interesting to see what the results from this actually are, but my suspicion is that they've raced too fast to try and bring something out and checks have slipped through the net that might have presented this. If that does turn out to be the case then I'm looking forward to seeing them lose lots of business. Sky News reported they've lost $10 billion off their stock valuation already, so they'd better give an explanation soon.

    4 0 Reply
  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Anybody know why it has a tendency to spontaneously combust?

    If it's not the battery cells, is it because the phone is flexible, causing the battery to bend? Is the device pulling more current than the battery can handle? Are they randomly cursed by witches working in the factory?

    1 0 Reply
    1. Danny 14
      Reply Icon

      Shit battery.

      0 0 Reply
      1. MrDamage Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        > "Shit battery"

        As others have pointed out, it's happened even after they changed suppliers, so it's more design, than quality.

        Either the too-thin case allows the phone to bend, thus damaging the battery, or the wireless charging coil is heating up and melting the plastic shell of the battery, or the lack of sufficient cooling on th cpu causes the same melting, or cheap dodgy USB3 charging cables, or the IMF got sick of having to modify standard hardware before sending Ethan off on a n mission, and just bollocksed the design of the Note 7 so it would self destruct after playing a certain message.

        2 0 Reply
  7. Charlie Clark Silver badge

    Samsung Electronics should just about be able to absorb an expense

    I think you'll find that the accounting rules will make it much easier to absorb than the current numbers being bandied about suggest. Hence, the stock seems more sensitive to movements by Elliott Capital than anything else.

    No, for Samsung, while the write-offs will be painful, what's most important is the PR around how this is handled and how they can prevent similar problems in the future. And in this I agree with you: Samsung's success is important to the whole sector.

    4 0 Reply
  8. J. R. Hartley

    In the words of Celine Dion:

    This is serious.

    5 1 Reply
    1. AIBailey
      Reply Icon

      Re: In the words of Celine Dion:

      It's a shame this is affecting Samsung and not HTC - I've got my Lana Del Rey's "Burning Desire" joke all ready to go.

      0 0 Reply
  9. Rabbit80

    LG??

    LG could make a killing if they hurry up and release the V20 here! It ticks many of the boxes the Note 7 did and has removable battery and micro SD expansion.

    2 0 Reply
    1. 404
      Reply Icon
      Happy

      Occasionally I get a win vs. Murphy's World

      Went from our perfectly fine* Samsung Note 3's to the LG G5 and haven't been happier in some time over a phone. The speed, 3.0 USB, wide angle & regular cameras, signal reception, Android security updates, and ironically Samsung fast-as-hell PRO Class 10 64GB SDXC card - it's a keeper.

      * The Note 3's were more than powerful enough to run Marshmallow and that was my whole reason for upgrading, I needed Marshmallow for some things I was working on.

      0 0 Reply
    2. Patrician
      Reply Icon

      Re: LG??

      I would agree with you but for the fact that the LG I had was the worst mobile I ever owned for not getting a 3G signal; even in areas where other phones on the same network were getting 3/4 bars my LG was getting zero/1 bar and was pretty much unusable anywhere without a full, strong signal.

      After that I'd never switch to LG I'm afraid.

      0 0 Reply
  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    But...

    ... no other manufacturer is producing a decent smartphone with a stylus like Samsung is. What the hell am I going to do on upgrade day now ;-( I'll just have to stick with my Note 4 until they release the Note 8 and i doubt that will happen until the S8 is close to release next year.

    7 0 Reply
    1. Yesnomaybe
      Reply Icon

      Re: But...

      I am in the same boat. I am hoping for two things: They will stop trying to force me to upgrade by filling my phone with bloat for a little while, at least until they have the Note8 ready. And. They will have to make the Note8 VERY attractively priced, to undo the damage the Note7 caused. (My Note4 is still a tremendously good phone, but it is ridiculous that software it could run perfectly well two years ago, is now running really badly, or not at all. Blatant and in my opinion criminal)

      1 0 Reply
  11. JimmyPage Silver badge
    WTF?

    Seriously, is reality changing ?

    Samsung, VW, Hotpoint - all massive fails.

    A perpetual war in Syria where no two sides ever seem the same.

    A presidential election between two candidates that would lose to Adolf Hitler if he stood.

    WTF is going on in reality ? Is the matrix crashing ?

    31 2 Reply
    1. Khaptain Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: Seriously, is reality changing ?

      "WTF is going on in reality ? Is the matrix crashing ?"

      No, it's just becoming more visible......

      5 0 Reply
    2. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Seriously, is reality changing ?

      Perhaps someone's testing an Infinite Improbability Drive, but hasn't quite nailed the right temperature for the tea yet.

      8 0 Reply
  12. Dan 55 Silver badge

    I don't think Samsung's problems will be a problem for the others

    When Elop killed Nokia in Finland with the operating system, it was the best thing that ever happened to Samsung.

    2 0 Reply
  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Shurely the 'Samsung Suicide Note 7'?

    This is going to be difficult for them to recover from in a stagnant market where the 'innovation' mostly seems to be in styling of the products and fairly minor hardware performance increments.

    1 0 Reply
  14. tiggity Silver badge

    Disagree with general consensus here...

    "By the general consensus, this was regarded as the best Android phone ever made"

    Only in the world of those who do not like removable batteries i.e planned obsolescence enthusiasts - lots of people were complaining about fixed battery

    In your own reg review, http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/1/2016/08/03/samsung_note_7/ , it only takes a few comment before someone mentions non removable battery (not as a good thing!) and the topic recurs often e.g. "I'd love the updated screen etc, but lack of removable battery is just killing me"

    3 4 Reply
    1. Dan 55 Silver badge
      Reply Icon
      Coat

      Re: Disagree with general consensus here...

      In the Note 7's case, maybe literally.

      3 0 Reply
      1. sabroni Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        Re: Disagree with general consensus here...

        The comment threads on here aren't really a representative sample of the target consumer base though. The vast majority of users don't give a fuck about removable batteries or fixed batteries wouldn't have become so common...

        7 1 Reply
        1. Danny 14
          Reply Icon

          Re: Disagree with general consensus here...

          Note 3 since launch. Changed the battery in july so no need to upgrade for a few more years. Wouldnt be able to do that with nonremoveable battery.

          2 1 Reply
          1. psychonaut
            Reply Icon

            Re: Disagree with general consensus here...

            yup, i can kill a battery so that it lasts about half the time compared to when it was new in about 9 months.gps, bluettoth, wifi , 4g, all the toys get used all day long. oh, and phone calls obviously. i dont want to have to wander around with a fucking heavy battery pack in my pocket all day. pull back off, new battery for 20 quid or so and im good to go. i was so dissapointed when the note 7 didnt have a removable battery and was looking around for a new phone (its upgrade time now!!) ...im kinda glad it didnt have a removable battery now.

            what gets me is that noone makes a waterproof (to like 1m , so it can survive a fall into, say, a sink or a toilet for a small period of time, i dont want to scuba dive with the bloody thing) phone with a removable battery. its not impossible is it? rubber membrane and screws, pig vat, KY, whatever. make the thing 2mm thicker or whatever. my phone is already massive, im not going to worry about it being a bit thicker. and put a bigger battery in it while you are at it.

            4 0 Reply
            1. Ian Watkinson
              Reply Icon

              Re: Disagree with general consensus here...

              " a fucking heavy battery pack"

              So buy a small light one then.

              Which can also charge other devices.

              Why buy 200 spare batteries for your phone? If you need 200 batteries life worth of charging for your phone you COULD buy 200 spare batteries, or a really " fucking heavy battery pack"

              I know which one is easier to charge for second use...

              or you know do what the rest of humanity does and get one that suits their needs and charge it overnight/in the car/on the train etc...

              0 0 Reply
    2. Nick Ryan Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: Disagree with general consensus here...

      The "it must have a removable battery" brigade are sounding more and more like a religious belief system.

      Seriously, I really don't understand it. External battery packs are considerably more convenient and safer - easier to charge and safer as you don't have a relatively naked battery lying around. They're also somewhat more "future proof" as batteries are only suitable for a single revision of a mobile phone. I've done this, been there and I've moved onto external battery packs. Yes, they're not quite so glamorous as we have to have a cable connected but I can at least charge and carry them safely.

      6 5 Reply
      1. Triggerfish
        Reply Icon

        Re: Disagree with general consensus here...

        Is it not bit of a pain to wander round with a phone and a removable battery pack attached in your pocket, seems somewhat inconvenient to me?

        4 0 Reply
      2. Jeffrey Nonken
        Reply Icon

        Re: Disagree with general consensus here...

        Already did a longer post on this earlier, on a different article, but... I like the options a removable battery gives me. Pull the battery and my phone is instantly untraceable and cannot be turned on remotely nor spied on. And I can replace a worn battery in 20 seconds using a fingernail, instead of an hour of meticulous disassembly and reassembly using a spudger, suction cup and jeweller's screwdrivers. And torx drivers.

        I don't think that's religion. I think it's personal preference. Can't speak for others, ofc.

        9 0 Reply

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