back to article Galaxy Note 7 flameout: 2 in 5 Samsung fans say they'll never buy from the Korean giant again

Samsung's Galaxy Note 7 fiasco continues to erode the South Korean goliath's customer base. Two days ago, the electronics giant said it would stop selling the Note 7 after a series of fires arising from faulty batteries. It also advised Note 7 customers to stop using the device. Now, a survey conducted by ecommerce company …

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  1. Ugotta B. Kiddingme

    already doing that

    I refused to buy a Samsung telly after their snooping scandal. Bought Vizio instead and never looked back. I was going to replace my aging Moto G phone with a Samsung around Christmastime but have since decided I'd rather have some other brand of device.

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Re: already doing that

      Vizio's got the same problem...

    2. 404

      Re: already doing that

      Other than checking for firmware updates now and again, my *televisions* are disconnected from my network. I have Raspberries for streaming/accessing video libraries - they're better at it anyway.

  2. quxinot

    I do wonder how many serious gear-heads that won't buy samsung phones are looking carefully at their computer memory and so on.

    In other words, give them a week. Seems that that vast and overwhelming majority have memories measured by the second.

    1. 404

      As long as the Samsung SDXC doesn't burst into flames in my LG G5, I'm good*

      *Still feeling burned by the Galaxy Note 3 getting passed over by Samsung for Marshmallow...

      1. Dan 55 Silver badge
        Joke

        At least you're not still feeling burned by the Galaxy Note 7...

  3. Your alien overlord - fear me

    Most cargo carriers don't want to ship stuff with lithium batteries in them by air. Have had this policy for a number of years. Doesn't mean they don't get shipped, just that they shouldn't.

  4. Andy Non Silver badge
    Coat

    Just wondering

    What will happen to all the recalled phones? Will there be a fire sale?

    1. Sandtitz Silver badge
      Go

      Re: Just wondering

      Nah, they'll be buried somewhere in Mexico next to the E.T cartridges.

      1. Crazy Operations Guy

        Re: Just wondering

        All the ET cartridges were exhumed, so they could throw all of them into the same whole. Of course, if they do send them to New Mexico, it'd be better if they dumped them into one of the weapons test craters that mar the desert out there.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Headmaster

          Re: Just wondering

          hole :O(

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Just wondering

      I heard that they are being sold to the Korean army to use as incendiary grenades.

    3. d3vy

      Re: Just wondering

      "What will happen to all the recalled phones? Will there be a fire sale?"

      As its only the batteries that have the issue I imagine someone is furiously working on a device that can reuse as many of the components as possible.... the screens and motherboards could go in pretty much any device - just make it a bit fatter and put a better battery in it...

      1. Lotaresco

        Re: Just wondering

        "As its only the batteries that have the issue "

        It's not the batteries that have the issue. It's the batteries that are overheating but the root cause of the problem appears to be something else. Or you have to accept that two unrelated battery manufacturers would mysteriously both produce batteries with identical faults.

        1. Updraft102

          Re: Just wondering

          Two unrelated battery manufacturers making batteries according to Samsung's design and specifications. It may well be that the design itself is faulty, not that there were errors in manufacturing.

          Lithium ion batteries are sensitive beasts. They use flammable electrolyte within the cells, and it is under pressure. As the battery packs get thinner and thinner, the thickness of the insulation in the cells gets thinner too, and if the material is not up to the task at the thickness specified, a short can occur, and with the power density of lithium ion batteries, it can quickly go into thermal runaway, with the heat from the fire quickly compromising the insulation on neighboring cells and adding them to the conflagration.

          It could also be that the battery charging and protection circuitry was not functioning adequately, but this seems less likely than the above to me. No doubt Samsung knows more than we do about the cause of the fires, but they didn't try to fix it with a firmware update to change the behavior of the battery control system. If that would not be enough, they would not have thought that changing the battery manufacturer would have been the fix.

          All we can do is speculate, of course.

          A little more thickness and a removable battery would seem wise at this point.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Just wondering

            "with the power density of lithium ion batteries, it can quickly go into thermal runaway, with the heat from the fire quickly compromising the insulation on neighboring cells and adding them to the conflagration.

            It could also be that the battery charging and protection circuitry was not functioning adequately,"

            Sounds vaguely familiar. Dreamliner, wasn't it? Who didn't learn what, and why didn't they learn it?

  5. oldtaku Silver badge
    Devil

    Highly Unlikely

    Consumers have the attention span (and attraction to new shiny things) of magpies.

    If Samsung brings out whatever they're going to call the new Note 8 in a year and it's better than the Note 7 (which was pretty good), and it doesn't burst into flames, then they'll be flocking back. If not in a year for the 'Note 8' then definitely in two years for the 'Note 9'.

    I believe people, like some here, who'd already given up on Samsung before this for crappy bloatware and lack of Android updates, because that's a systemic thing. But people who are giving up FOREVAR just because of the Note 7 thing will mostly be back unless they get distracted by something shinier elsewhere.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Highly Unlikely

      Why would those who leave come back, unless they are unhappy with whatever brand they switch to? It isn't like Samsung phones are superior to other choices - they've just been the most effectively marketed Android phones thanks to Samsung spending over $10 billion a year to advertise them.

      If they switch to Pixel or HTC, what brings them back to Samsung when they are ready for a new phone a couple years from now?

      1. oldtaku Silver badge

        Re: Highly Unlikely

        It's not that they don't like their new HTC, but in a year or two when they start getting the itch to buy something new this looks really shiny... Maybe it is just the advertising!

        But also, people who like the Notes REALLY like the Notes. It does a very good job with the stylus. Stuff like LG Stylo is okaaaay but I'm not aware of anything out there that's as good unless you want to go the full on Surface tablet route. Maybe this is an opportunity for someone else to step up.

      2. Lou 2

        Re: Highly Unlikely

        Unfortunately the Samsung phones are superior to other phones, including the Apple copycats.

        Is the size of the company that makes your phone that matters, any other company except Apple can't afford to have a massive recall like that.

        People have short memories - we wil be queuing up for the next Galaxy soon enough.

      3. That_Guy

        Re: Highly Unlikely

        Why downvote this? makes perfect sense. Biased fanbois would rather burn their privates than admit Samsung are trash.

        1. King Jack

          Re: Highly Unlikely

          Re downvotes: Do people queue for Samsung stuff? I thought it was just an Apple thing.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Highly Unlikely

            There's a scale of stupidity. There's not quite enough space at the moronic end for the Samsung idiots amongst the Apple fools.

            Wouldn't buy either myself. A cheapie Android does all I need and the extra cash can be spent on something better.

      4. Loud Speaker

        Re: Highly Unlikely

        As an ex Samsung user, I can state that none of my family was prepared to buy a phone without a removeable battery and SD card, and we sure as hell wont be buying one with no headphone socket either.

        Who cares about thin when they can have battery life and dual SIM? (Now a Huawei user).

        [replacing screen in a Nokia 6120 as I write this].

  6. AJames

    I respect Samsung more now

    Every company has product screwups. You judge them by their reaction. Personally I have considered Samsung and the other Korean companies very weak on service and support in the past, but in this case they did the right thing and halted shipment of a defective product. I respect them more now, not less. I am more likely to buy a Samsung product in the future than I was before.

    1. BillG
      Mushroom

      Re: I respect Samsung more now

      but in this case they did the right thing and halted shipment of a defective product. I respect them more now, not less

      No, they did the wrong thing and shipped replacement product that had the same burning smell. That meant that they did not understand the problem, and so instead of recalling all the phones immediately, they shipped replacements with the same problem. The replacements were an act of desperation. It was a failure of management, pure and simple. Samsung does not deserve respect.

      1. Lou 2
        Facepalm

        Re: I respect Samsung more now

        Burnt smell? That is probably your apple crumble.

        Given the massive impact to their bottom line this is as important a recall as I can recall. Owning the problem and calling back ALL phones is not something any other vendor has done.

        You does not deserve to respect Samsung.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: I respect Samsung more now

          You respect them for:

          1) at first giving people the option to return their phones, but not recommending anyone should stop using them

          2) only after the US Consumer Product Safety Commission forced their hand by ordering a formal recall did they tell people they should stop using them

          3) rushed replacement phones out when they clearly had not found the root cause of the problem, because they were worried about bad publicity more than they were worried about insuring their customers had a safe product

          4) because they are worried about offending their customers, they've still done nothing to insure/force Note 7 owners return or even stop using their phones, meaning there are hundreds of thousands still out there being carried onto planes, trains, buses and other places were they potentially endanger the general public

          5) haven't retracted clearly erroneous statements like the claim that "only 1 in 42,000 phones is affected", which is obviously untrue just based on the number of fires reported in the US alone, and they can't know the true odds until they understand what the problem was, which they still don't

          They were never out in front of the problem, always in reactive mode being prodded along by bad publicity (airlines telling people they can't use the phones on flights) and governments (US CPSC) to go beyond the half measures they wanted to do. They still haven't gone far enough until they do something to brick the remaining phones to prevent them from being a continued public menace that could cause further fires in the months to follow.

  7. Jim-234

    Samsung can come back strong if they choose to

    I think if Samsung comes back next year with a strong contender and re-thinks the design a bit, possibly going back to removable batteries, and the phone is truly a top end contender, Samsung should be just fine.

    I have the S7 Edge and wanted a Note 7 but will now wait to see what comes next & if it's good, I'll buy it. My guess is this is causing Samsung enough pain where it counts (Bottom line & Executive salary / bonuses) that Samsung will probably be the safest phone the next go around.

  8. GrumpyKiwi
    Mushroom

    Easy choice

    Some people decided never to buy another Samsung phone after theirs caught fire.

    I just had to use a Galaxy-S for 3 months to make that decision.

  9. Sampler

    I'd still like one

    I mean, second hand, once it's been charged and discharged a few times, to make sure it's not one of the kablooey ones, but, the note4 work gave me's rather nice and an upgrade isn't necessary but who doesn't like shiny new..

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Re: I'd still like one

      Well their S4 batteries could start bulging after six months. What makes you think that a Note 7's battery wouldn't go kablooey after six months?

      And you're not getting on a plane with one of those... Ever.

      1. d3vy

        Re: I'd still like one

        "And you're not getting on a plane with one of those... Ever."

        Possibly true, but that just highlights the knee jerk reaction to security that we have adopted in the last decade.

        Im heading to florida at the end of the month, in my carry on will be : 3 iPhones, 1 iPad air, 2 iPad Minis, a Nexus 7 (2012) and my Yoga2 Pro laptop, a coulple of nintendo DSs and some other bits like noise canceling earbuds with built in Lithium ion battery. All in all probably around a kilo of batteries. A kilo of potentially explosive material.

        Oh and < 100ml of water.

        1. Gio Ciampa

          Re: I'd still like one

          "Oh and < 100ml of water."

          Just don't put the Lithium in the water...

        2. Loud Speaker

          Re: I'd still like one

          If you want to know how to blow up a plane with 100ml of water, you probably need to join Da 'Esh, cos its not in any physics or chemistry text book in the west, and I am fairly sure that includes ones published before 1960.

      2. Gio Ciampa

        Re: I'd still like one

        Same with my S3 mini - though the (third-party) high-capacity battery I bought to replace the original caused my work laptop to complain that the USB port was drawing too much power... (I wonder if that would have exploded in time...?)

        I gave up on Samsung after that phone - 6 months after release and with one (minor) OS update as far as I could tell (the day I bought it), they gave up supporting it... so off to CyanogenMod it was (for a while, anyway...)

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I'd still like one

      They don't even know what really has caused the problem yet, why are you dumb enough to think that after it has been charged and discharged a few times it will be safe?

      1. That_Guy

        Re: I'd still like one

        The issue is a combination of crappy battery manufacturing combined with no battery heat / charge shutoff regulation. There is information on this. The heat is causing parts inside the battery to short out and then catch fire.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          @That_Guy "there is information on this"

          Yes, outdated information that Samsung relied upon when they did the first recall and thought the replacement phones would be fine. Clearly the batteries were not the problem, as getting two batteries made by different manufacturers BOTH having a problem of unprecedented seriousness is so unlikely as to be not worth considering. The batteries are not the problem, the phone itself is. They just don't know exactly how yet.

  10. HippyChippy
    Stop

    iPhone instead?

    The USP of the Galaxy Note series is its stylus which is invaluble for on the fly note taking; I'm a carpenter and constantly use it for jotting down measurements and making little sketches etc. so any talk of buying an iphone instead is just bollox - there isn't an iphone alternative.

    Hope that's a lesson learnt about glueing the batteries in place - bring on the new Note8 - cash waiting.

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Re: iPhone instead?

      If Apple want to capitalise on this they'll bundle the iPhone 7+ with an Apple Pen which so far has been reserved for the iPad Pro.

      1. d3vy

        Re: iPhone instead?

        "If Apple want to capitalise on this they'll bundle the iPhone 7+ with an Apple Pen which so far has been reserved for the iPad Pro."

        Does the iPhone 7+ have the correct type of digitiser? I wouldnt have thought so because of the added cost unless they were planning on making the *PENCIL* (Pen would be too mainstream) work with it.

        Serious question, not even seen an ip7 yet so really dont know.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: iPhone instead?

      Not everyone bought a Note 7 because of the stylus. Some people probably just liked the size. Those people would be fine with an iPhone 7 plus, or Android phablet.

      As for bundling with an Apple Pen. Ewww, I don't want to pay for something I have no interest in using. Anyway, Note 7 users probably wouldn't consider that a viable alternative unless they modified the design to have a place to keep the pen. If they did that I'd definitely not buy one!

    3. tiggity Silver badge

      Re: iPhone instead?

      The carpenter we have used a few times is old skool - he uses a notebook for jotting down measurements, sketches etc.

      Seriously, If it's just quick sketch type of stuff anything with a big enough screen should do as high quality drawing of Sammy stylus solution is not needed for most uses.

      1. Loud Speaker

        Re: iPhone instead?

        If it's just quick sketch type of stuff anything with a big enough screen should do as high quality drawing of Sammy stylus solution is not needed for most uses.

        Have you tried one? You can draw schematics and annotate them with values on a Samsung Note phone. You cant do that on the competition. I believe it is a combination of high-res digitiser, and the stylus providing pressure data, but what would I know, I have only used it.

        As for using pencil and paper, sure, but with the Note, you have it in digital form, and can dump it to LTO tape for archiving. Probably not useful for a one man carpenter, but if you have 1,000 engineers in the field, its a very different proposition.

        It is very nice to be able to send a photo of the circuit to a colleague, and have him sketch the required changes, and send it back - especially if you can do this while on public transport (eg while waiting for a train, not in a bus going over speed bumps :-).

    4. Lotaresco

      Re: iPhone instead?

      "The USP of the Galaxy Note series is its stylus which is invaluble for on the fly note taking"

      Not so unique. If you want a stylus for an iPhone then precision styluses are available. Some of them with mouse buttons (these styluses also work with Android.

      "I'm a carpenter"

      Cool, the Adonit Snap precision stylus (iPhone/Android) looks like a chippy's pencil. As deal, I won't expect you to take advice from me on how to construct a walnut cabinet and I won't expect advice from you on an IT solution. BTW, removable batteries would not have helped in the case of the GN7.

      1. Mage Silver badge
        Facepalm

        Re: iPhone instead?

        The iPhone type capacitive only screen can't do precision, with ANY after market stylus. The phone has to be designed for a stylus of some kind. Most phones since after Nokia 5800 are not

        Precision needs an added resistive screen or a wacom type combo of base + energised stylus.

        1. Lotaresco

          Re: iPhone instead?

          "The iPhone type capacitive only screen can't do precision, with ANY after market stylus."

          The Adonit precision styluses for iPhone and Android do a job that appears as good as Wacom tablet pens or the GN7 stylus. They are not the massive rubber/mesh blobby styluses that are sold at Tesco.

  11. AMBxx Silver badge
    Facepalm

    30% never owned another brand?

    They sure? How long have Samsung being making phones? I'm pretty sure I didn't have a choice of Samsung 20 years ago.

    Maybe all 300 people were under the age of 18?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: 30% never owned another brand?

      The average person didn't have a cell phone 10 years ago, even in wealthy countries. I didn't have my first until 2000, and I only got one because I needed it for work. If it wasn't for that I wouldn't have owned one until less than a decade ago.

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