Apple's Safari 3: a crashing experience for non-US users

Standards

Well said B Gracey!

I'm using this Safari Beta on WinXP Home SP2 all set up with UK English settings. No problems here. I'm usually an Opera user in Windows an Linux, use Firefox occasionally on both OS's and resort to IE7 when I am forced to, to view MS DRM'd online video content.

Not being a Safari user, I've only tested on sites that I know cause/have caused problems in IE/FF/Opera and am pleasantly surprised to see Safari cope perfectly on those sites.

I only really intend to use it to test that sites I design work the same in various browsers, which is annoying, as I prefer to keep sites XHTML Strict compliant, or transitional at the very least.

I'm not saying that Safari is great or anything. At this earlyish stage, it is no more or less good or bad, than any of the other browsers that I mention. Anything that is standards compliant is a plus. Opera, Firefox and Safari are still higher in my list of preferences than IE.

Does anyone else find this bizarre?

What exactly is the point in competing for market share of FREE products? Sure Apple sees the chance to slurp up some of that tasty microsoft-using-populace ad sector, but why are they doing it by trying to compete with firefox?

Wouldn't it be more effective to market this as an IE killer?

Isn't that the basis for apple's entire advertising machine? "Apple, we're not the other guy!"

replies...

re:"I thought the whole point of a 'beta' was that you could provide feedback... but I can't find any information on the Apple website about doing so. It's possible that the Safari application has links to do so"

Don't you see a Bug button beside the address bar?

re:"It's own skinning rather than using the skin currently used in Windows."

er, that's rich. We are talking about Windows?

re:"I never used Safari when I had a Mac, Mozilla/Firefox being much better".

Sorry, but how would you know if you never used it? Bit of an oxymoron.

Anyway, I've been using it all day. Not a problem. Have imported all my Firefox bookmarks. No problems for me. Of course there are bugs, and there are problems for some users, but it's those for whom it doesn't work that will complain the loudest, especially the Apple haters. I don't understand the Apple Rage (or the MS Rage).

And for you developers out there who haven't tried Safari before, it behaves like Firefox 99.99% of the time. IE is still the bitch.

All these negative comments. Most of them seem to be from people who can't interact properly with their keyboard. So honestly, who cares what you say if you're not going to double-check what you've written?

Does anyone else find this bizarre

David: The product is free, but Google and Yahoo pay Mozilla and Apple for every search that they receive through Firefox/Safari.

Mozilla got $50m in revenue from Google last year...

So, anyone interested in making a browser?

It behaves like Firefox?

Mr. Martin, it behaves like an alpha that would like to pass as Firefox: Content on pages is missing, formatting gets broken, links are displayed as underscored lines, etc. In this form it should never have made been public, as these are not bugs associated with a beta.

If you don't understand the negative comments, then you probably agree with Apple's advertising Safari as "the world's best browser". The rest of us, who view Apple probably a bit more realistic, take this as the snobbish line it really is. Even a good number of Apple users prefer Firefox over Safari.

But then, on the other hand, I am lead to believe that people like you share their sense of logic with the likes of Mr. Finnie, who comes to the conclusion that a Mac is not more expensive than a PC - by not counting PCs below $600, because they don't represent "value":

http://computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9023959

At the end of the day, the majority of the world's computer users wants an affordable machine that gets the job done, while others find the prestige associated with a specific brand worth the extra money. The problem with that only arises when those feel they have to justify their decision, and maybe lack of self-confidence, by telling everyone else they are idiots for not seeing the truth.

I wonder how high the percentage of Apple users is among Wikipedia contributors.

why in gods name....

would you want to use Safari anyway?

any MacOSX users know how bad it is and have sidegraded to Kamino or Firefox

and PC owners who want a 3rd party browser already have Firefox or Opera

(and I'm sure that many testers of Safari will soon go back to them and never

touch Safari again!)

Apple want to try ruling the desktop? start by fixing your own broken OS which is becoming more of a security burden each passing month.

I used to agree with the Mac crowd...OSX was nice. now the shiny veneer is peeling off leaving behind a rather crusty open sored (open sourced, geddit?) layer thats been screwed beyond belief. Apple make nice shiny gadgets, others are now writing the better things to run on them.

Apple Apologist (Not)

Dear anonymous,

I'm using Safari on Windows. Why am I a Mac snob? Because it hasn't crashed or not displayed content for me?

"If you don't understand the negative comments..."

I made a point of saying I did understand them, but wanted to say that it's those who are having problems that'll be the loudest, and that's fine. Submit a bug (if you can). Windows is so user-tweakable and runs on such a range of hardware that I don't automatically assume that an application is trash because it doesn't work when I install it on my PC. I see if someone's found a conflict. And I'm sure this is what's happened with people for whom Safari is not working, and that's why it's a beta. I have issues with how a lot of apps behave, on all the platforms (and devices) that I use. And I assume that my bug feedback will help the developers iron out bugs that they haven't come across. What I don't understand is the big scene everyone makes (Windows or Mac) when they have a problem. It's just opportunistic bashing, which is evidenced by the fact that they just want to publicly bash Apple or MS, and don't care if they spell like English is their fifth language. I'm willing to debate and learn, but a lot of Reg comments are naff crass that don't contribute anything to the article.

As for "the majority of the world's computer users wants an affordable machine that gets the job done"... I have to say that I believe that user interfaces have a long way to go, Windows, OS X, Unix flavours... I believe that it'll be quite a while before I would confidently give a machine to my mother and not expect support calls.

My point was only that there's a lot of OS Rage going on, and that I'm sure for a lot of people Safari is working fine (like me).

IE look out

I've been using the Windows version of Safari for a couple of minutes now and the only significant issue I've found is that it doesn't render HTML, i.e. I enter an address and Safari does not render anything. Apart from that, it's great! Really makes me want to go out and buy a Mac.

Faster than IE? Perhaps...

Faster than Opera, no way...

Opera is considerably faster, in page loading, rendering, and javascript it seems...

I won't be switching from Opera to Safari, as Opera renders almost everywhere I visit correctly..

@Daniel

'Live Mail - generates fatal error on login ("Safari has experienced a fatal error and has to close. We apologise for the inconvenience")'

Live Mail is a Microsoft property. It won't work properly at all, and it only works as designed (as opposed to "properly") with Internet Explorer.

Testing Apple beta products with Microsoft proprietary Web sites is about as sensible as expecting a Dachshund to sire pups on a black rhino. Sure, it may be amusing to watch the attempt, but it can only end in tears.

Personally, I won't be trying it until the official wide-release beta, though. I do have a life.

Safari - Win XP

Gosh it's FAST! It's almost like a real Mac.

I'm a Brit user & it's a dream, I'll probably uninstall Firefox next week if I see no problems with Safari.

I'm good with this . . .

I've used Safari 2.x on the Mac since 2005 and really like it. It is minimal and doesn't get in the way of the content. The same I find for Safari for Windows. I do find it has crashed a few times, the fonts are a wee bit bit fuzzy and the browser chrome is a touch dark, but other than that -- for a beta -- a fine start as far as I am concerned. Oh yes -- this WILL become my browser of choice on XP-Pro.

Proxies

I tried it but it crashes. It looks like it can't handle our local proxy setup (configured through a proxy script and then authenticated with NTLM) so it crashes. The only work around seems to be to not load any web pages - not really a viable option for a web browser. You can't turn off the proxy settings (as someone pointed it it just uses IE's settings and my settings at work are locked done by group policy) so I can't even test it on local content. I think the most remarkable thing about this is the complete lack of feedback channel for me to point his out to apple. I'm happy to regard it as a beta and send back feedback but it seems odd to only want feedback from people that it works properly for.

Anyway, its obvious that this is being rushed out because it (or the webkit component) forms some key component in the new version of iTunes for Vista so they need to get most of it working on windows anyway.

Watch the Keynote people...

After reading over most of these comments, I have to make the point that unless you watch the Keynote, you'll not understand why Apple is doing this. So do yourself a favor and start into about 66 minutes of the Keynote and watch. All your questions (and confusion from many of you) will be answered.

http://events.apple.com.edgesuite.net/d7625zs/event/

yes, Safari is much faster than IE, about twice as fast, and 1.6 faster than FireFox, these tests are from iBench, not from Apple.

Definitely not the best beta for windows

Only took me 5 minutes to crash the new Safari on Windows XP in Canada (I'm not sure being in Canada qualifies me as an international user by Apple American standards).

Best part was it crashed while trying use their bug report feature in Help.

Fonts look very weird, fat and small compared to IE , just look news.bbc.co.uk in both browsers.

Also, the colour rendering is off. Go to any art web site, such the Web Gallery of Art ( http://www.wga.hu/index1.html ) and compare the colours.

I think I'll uninstall and wait for the final version.

to: Kenny Millar

So you dont understand Geek?? 'b0rked' IS the right spelling, indicating the mangling of code by a particular website, when it sees a browser it hates... have you never been 'pwned' ???

you can always try this.. www.opera.com/products/desktop/

Also the opera BETAs, and even some of the alphas, dont crash that much.. :)

I think I'll just wait until they release Service Pack 1

And let all the Apple devotees do the iBeta iTesting.

It's a beta!

I completely agree with Kenny Millar. If you don't want things to crash, then wait for a stable version. I didn't download it, but i'm sure there's a disclaimer somewhere that states exactly this. Just because you don't have any (of these) problems with the latest Firefox beta doesn't mean .. etc etc.

Data digging, occupation, silent phone home ...

After installation found:

an active "Bonjour" service eating background time slices,

tries 6-8 times to phone home when opening a Safari window,

the "usual" problems as an alien user,

looks like adware, acts like adware, no real function yet ...

... can not trust it, cause all this is done silent without notification.

... no second try, now its a blacklisted application.

It's a beta!!!!

Have you people forgotten what beta actually means? It's a testing release! I would never expect beta software to work straight out of the box on every system. Give it time, have patience.

As holy as IE??

oh, and a nice big hole... :p

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=40283

The good thing about this?? Apple has to now realise how hard it is to get things working in windows!! :D

And all those 'MACfans' will have to shut up, for a while!!

Doesn't work on my Mac

Just tried launching it on my eMac (PPC) 10.4.9, and it won't even open. After 3 attempts from separate downloads, I just reached for the uninstaller and reloaded Firefox.

Whether Pre-Alpha, PMT-Alpha or grunge-Beta, this baby doesn't work

China? It doesn't even work for Chinese!

"Wake up, Apple. There is a world beyond US-land and China, where you manufacture everything."

Should be more like : Wake up, Apple. There is a world beyond US. And there's a land called China where you manufacture everything! At least make the Safari compatible with Chinese instead of showing blank dashes and blocks when viewing Chinese website!

Steve's Little Green Apple

The more I use it the more bugs I find, makes me wonder if Steve Jobs ever tried it out on Windows before he started bragging about this flawed product. I mean I've used beta browsers before but the developers never bragged about them being the best browser in the world, secure from day one, that's why over a million idots like myself downloaded the most disappointing and most insecure browser in the world. And where's Steve Jobs now, skulking in some darkened office afraid to show his face or try to explain how he got it so wrong. I was poised to purchase a new Apple Mac but that is no longer an option, at least I know where I stand with Bill Gates which is preferable to Steve Jobs peeing on my boots and telling me it's raining.

Steve's Little Green Apple

The more I use it the more bugs I find, makes me wonder if Steve Jobs ever tried it out on Windows before he started bragging about this flawed product. I mean I've used beta browsers before but the developers never bragged about them being the best browser in the world, secure from day one, that's why over a million idots like myself downloaded the most disappointing and most insecure browser in the world. And where's Steve Jobs now, skulking in some darkened office afraid to show his face or try to explain how he got it so wrong. I was poised to purchase a new Apple Mac but that is no longer an option, at least I know where I stand with Bill Gates which is preferable to Steve Jobs peeing on my boots and telling me it's raining.