back to article More gnashing of teeth after Microsoft update brings PCs to a standstill

This story was updated on Thursday 25th October 2007 23:21 to add comment from Microsoft. Something seems to have gone horribly wrong in an untold number of IT departments on Wednesday after Microsoft installed a resource-hogging search application on machines company-wide, even though administrators had configured systems not …

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  1. Colin Morris
    Stop

    Don't approve automatically in WSUS 3

    As a sys admin I made sure that WSUS 3 only approves Critical updates and update definitions for our computers at work.

    Thankfully, this mean that Desktop Search had no chance of installing on all our computers without my knowledge.

    If all sys admins check the WSUS options properly then unexpected installations would not happen in an environment 'supposedly' controlled by a WSUS server. I have to admit that though that M$ are completely and utterly wrong to force this ridiculous Desktop Search business on non-domain computers that simply have automatic updates turned on.

    Colin.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Alert

    AN indexing service from Microsoft which slows everything down...

    Sounds like Microsoft Office Find Fast all over again...

  3. Ted Treen
    Jobs Halo

    @Webster

    Phreaky, old man. Good to see you back and on predictable form. Please make sure you don't get TOO excited, or your nursie might have to administer some of that nasty medicine again........

  4. John

    The general plan is.....

    .....to slow everyones PC's down. Every update and my XP box gets slower, there is now a random 30 second wait on after I login where the PC does nothing before its innards get busy. This is pure conjecture, but I think that one in every few "security" updates actually tells the CPU to miss a cycle in every 1000 or so.

    Gradually people will come to realise that their PC isn't the mutts nuts they thought it was 2 years ago and go for new one, scratching Intels back, and actually selling copies of Vista.

    Conversely, when I'm booted into Linux, where I do my actual work (XP is for Fifa and GTA), the latest updates in the scheduling system in the kernel actually make my PC run faster!!

  5. D. M
    Black Helicopters

    @Abdul

    You have no idea how real world works.

    Do you know why Webster ("the guy with 18000 PC") had no problem? Because people at that level has no idea what the real world looks like, and they won't listen anyway. So they think everything is perfect, if there is anything goes wrong, it is the "worker". Often, even they know their ideas won't work, they will push it anyway, because they are so used to order "small people". Everything for them "will work out", as long as they bully enough. Most knowledgeable people won't waste time with them, since there is no hope for so called management to do the right thing.

    You have no idea how ill informed and f*cked up the top management are. They take 110% credit if things work; they take absolutely zero responsibility if things don't work; they only listen what they want to hear; and try to tell them they are wrong - don't even think about it.

  6. stalker

    erm....

    My LAN is configured to use WSUS to download and install only crticical security patches, which is what is essential on the LAN to plug the holes (for the user who wanted an OS that didn't need patching, does that mean he wants the hackers to quit finding exploits and M$ to stop developing components and applications to hopefully improve them?)

    Yes M$ are bad people, yes they have the monopoly on OS's, but at the end of the day 90% of my failures/problems are either user error or hardware failure. The other 10% tend to be application based, rather than OS based. I like windows, its a good OS for the most part, it does have its limitations, true, but it keeps me in a job and lets me play my games/steal movies/watch porn/share my inner ramblings with teh world at home.

    we use Linux at work for our DB servers, and W2K3 for file/print/mail/web serving and desktops. Our workshop has a broad range of IT experience, from Linux specialists, Cisco gurus and the humble M$ MCP's, but at the end of the day the glue that holds it all together is my desktop machine, running windows XP Pro and office 2003...its where I spend my days sitting and working, and in the two years I've been here I can't crib it tbh.

    Surely the moral of the story shouldn't be that M$ are evil, its that LAN admins should test their downloads, configure WSUS/patching correctly, and do their jobs better, rather than blaming M$ because a patch slipped through their system?????

  7. Daniel

    Updates...

    The bad thing I hate about AutoUpdate in vista, is that its configured to do it all automatically as a default feature. And once done brings a pop up stating you need to restart.

    But if your running a full screen game, the popup drops you out of it, and most times cant get back in to what your were doing and lose time that you might as well spent on drinking or women.

  8. The March Hare
    Happy

    WSUS....

    I just checked my primary WSUS server & I see that WDS (windows Desktop Search) V2.6.5, 2.6.6 & 3.0.1 are all classed as plain "updates" & are all set as "no approval set" - meaning that I don't have to worry about it springing up when I'm not expecting it - is someone being a little cavalier with the auto-approval thingy?

  9. Stuart Andersen

    Re: More FUD from the MS bashers

    > Write a grammatically perfect note to the milkman in Microsoft Word 2007? No problem.

    > So there you go. THIS IS A NONE ISSUE.

    Maybe you should use Word 2007 for forum postings as well. Or, maybe you did, but it accepted "NONE ISSUE" instead of "NON-ISSUE"?

    Besides, for a single user machine there may not be a problem, but when you have thousands of machines accessing the network file system it will cause trouble.

  10. Yuri
    Unhappy

    Hey, that's not Microsoft's fault!

    It's one's because one should have the latest computer with full the machine's ram capacity no matter what it costs

  11. myxiplx

    FUD? where?

    Loving the comments from a couple of the MS supporters here; "I have no problems so nobody else can either".

    Nice world you live in there. Try not to get your ego stuck in the door on your way out....

    Here in the real world, I'll be taking the steps to ensure wsus doesn't push this patch to our client machines.

  12. Tony
    Paris Hilton

    Huh...

    "Hey Genious, you really think they'd be able to handle that much information? Seriously, 90% of the market reporting back to MS? No one can handle that much bandwidth...."

    Surely no more than the traffic they must get when people report applications crashing on Windows... ;)

  13. Adam Onesti

    Specialist software and MS

    I am amazed at the vitriol pouring at Chris C for his statement. Its almost like some of you have taken personal offence.

    I'm sorry guys though, Chris C speaks the truth, for a lot of business use specialist software you cant get the equivalent in Linux. Its not just the programme either, its the support contract and everything else that entails with the providing company.

    We're currently reviewing our software, we're an insurance broker in the UK, and there is no available mainstream, supported and proven software available that does not run on Windows. Nothing. Its not just the software availability that's an issue but the professionalism and support contracts given by the supplying software vendor.

    I think to suggest there is shows a naivety about business software requirements in some business sectors. Yes you can the general stuff on Linux, and a lot of the big boys stuff, but that's not what a lot of business actually need to run. Each sector has its specialist software vendors (for Insurance in the UK its companies like Sirius, SSP, Acturis, Insurecom, etc.) and its this piece of software that makes the business, and its this software that is not available outside of Windows.

    Finally, if you demand a Linux version (as someone suggested) they'll happily tell you to piss off. They don't care about it, don't want to support it and don't want to spend the time or effort to create it...

  14. Robert Hill
    Stop

    LINUX AND WINDOWS AND MACS - OH MY!!

    I started in desktop computing before there WAS an MS-DOS. Did early commercial programming in CP-M for the Z-80. I've used Unix, Macs, Apple IIs, Ohio Scientifics, PETs, DEC 2020s, IBM SP-2 supercomputers, AT&T B32s, you name it...

    Know what? Windows works. And well enough, for the majority of people.

    I installed Ubuntu 7.10 this weekend - on a clean disk, off a verified ISO, on my existing desktop machine. Booted into interactive mode off the install CD, selected the disk partition application, made two new partitions (one for swap, natch), and then executed the partition. The app then went to check the partitions - and crashed!

    Huh. I can't think of the last time I went to set up a clean Windows box and the install ITSELF failed or crashed.

    Then there is the software. I like MIDI and synth, so I decided to sample some of the suggested music apps: stuff like Hydrogen, Freeborn, etc. Know what? Some of it is OK, and most of it is free as in beer, but absolutely crappy compared to commercial applications that run under Windows. Freebirth is a spin on the commercial Re-birth commercial synth, and it has 5% of the features, and the WORST user interface known to man. Hydrogen has a great interface, works well, and...has TERRIBLE audio quality. Pops, snaps...sounds like breakfast cereal. No way you could make a usable recording from this. (tbh, ZynAddSubFX synth does work well, but is a basic FM synth - at least I know the audio problems above are not hardware related!). And the MIDI ALSAConnect application has such a garbage interface (and no help!) that I can't even figure out how to actually specify a link between sources.

    So, I decided to dj a bit...downloaded the Ultramixer commercial app demo, and installed the .jar. Works perfectly...except that it can't see load ANY of my music that exist on my NTFS partitions...even though everything else can. So, I can either move a few gigs of music into my ext2 partition, or...load Ultramixer under Windows. (Or scrap Windows entirely, but then where would I run good synth software?).

    So...I like Linux, and am pretty impressed overall with Ubuntu 7.10. But give up Windows entirely? It just doesn't make the case really...doesn't impress me as being totally there yet (a conclusion I reluctantly reached two years ago the LAST time I tried to convince myself to move to desktop Linux as well).

    TBH, I think I am leaning towards installing VMWare under Linux, and running everything as a virtual machine...so that I can switch back and forth as I want, when I want without needing to see GRUB.

    And lastly, for the fanbois - MS doesn't hate it's customers. It just makes mistakes the same as ANY business does, and any technical development group does. Even some of it's policies are sometimes the decision of one lone manager who needs to make a fast decision, and can make the wrong one. Or one guy in Testing and QA, who had a fight with his wife and signed off the wrong module. It happens, its part of adult life. Deal with it, m'kay? It's no worse that the bugs and crashes that affect CCP's software, and make my online life in Eve so interesting...or are you saying that a bunch of gaming programmers hate their customers too? Of course not. People just aren't perfect...

  15. T. O'Hara
    Alert

    "most companies use Windows because" they are stupid

    In all the companies I have worked for (6 to date) almost everyone uses their computer to create documents/spreadsheets/presentations/project plans/web browsing/wasting time and other administration activities. None of them need Windows and use it only because they don't know any better.

    I EDA software which I was only available for Unix systems in the early days but when Windows brought along cheaper alternatives I started using them. I now need Windows only for EDA. Everything else I use Linux.

    So save some money and teach all your admin people Open Office, next thing you know Microsoft might actually go back to designing software that we want.

  16. Thomas Swann
    Stop

    So...

    ... it took, what? 10 seconds for this to degenerate into Windows vs Linux?

    /applauds

  17. Andy

    You get what you sign up for

    The way I see it, if these IT departments didn't want an OS that is completely controlled by a different company (i.e. MS), they wouldn't have bought Windows. MS's practices have been well-known for a long time, but IT departments everywhere act surprised when MS does something like this.

    To every IT department who's dealing with this: I just want you to know that your money went to pay for MS to develop this system which is now causing you so much trouble. If you didn't want them to do this to you, you have had every opportunity to choose a different platform. This is a company that has proven time and again that it will screw over its users; if you like giving such a company complete control over your software (and implicitly, your network), by all means, keep buying Windows! You are getting exactly what you paid for -- control by the mothership in Redmond. Don't like it? Don't buy it. Don't want it anymore? Go get something else. I'm not going to feel an ounce of pity for a company that gets what they bought.

    Before the trolls go to work on this post, let me point out that I have neither bashed the technical merits of Windows nor lauded any other platform as being better.

  18. elder norm

    @webster Phreaky

    You are such an MS troll. I love reading your rants. Of course I know that you are a troll so I do not even try to believe them. :-)

    "Frankly, I see this as a anti MS story plant by Apple PR or by an Mac zealot media writer.

    With the few Macs we have left after YEARS of bugs, flaws, prematurely dead Logic Boards amongst other costly hardware failures, we have MORE problems after nearly every Apple OS X update that we ever have with our 18,000 plus Windows boxes."

    While I have read stories from Apple fans, I have never seen as much BS as I have seen coming from MS trolls/fanboys. !! Yes, I totally believe you (LOL) that you have never had problems with MS and PC systems. All those tales of woe that I have read on MS blog websites are just junk. :-) Ballmer tells me that MS is great so I must believe him (or get hit by a flying chair).

    "The revelation that Microsoft is pushing yet more installations not explicitly agreed to by administrators is not likely to sit well with this same vocal contingent. Redmond may want to don the asbestos suits now."

    "Why now? Why this update?" (sort of from legally blond) LoL

    "Yep, at Redmond, its business as usual. You guys that have locked into MS are just stuck. You would have to totally change your systems. You will never do that. We have spent years programming software to make it impossible to do that. :-) Just sit back and enjoy the ride...... er sort of. " :-)

    en

  19. Mark Broadhurst
    Gates Halo

    Found it!

    Windows Desktop Search 3.01 for Windows XP (KB917013)

    Download size: 4.7 MB , less than 1 minute

    Windows Desktop Search (WDS) 3.01 helps you to find, preview, and use your documents, e-mail, music, photos, and other items. On an upgrade from previous versions, you may need to rebuild your index. After you install this item, you may have to restart your computer. Details...

    Don't show this update again

    found under "Optional software updates" which again isnt installed on any of my PC's this doesnt seem that widespread could it just be linux fan boys not knowing how to configure WUS ?

  20. Mark Broadhurst
    Gates Halo

    A quality scarmongering article.

    Well I've got auto updates on and I havent got it, I havent manually installed it and theres no sign also I think more than one company should be complianing.

    Is it more likely you have no idea how to configure you WUS ?

  21. Adam Starkey

    re: Word game for you

    "What company isn't interested in profits (please read carefully before some idiot pips in with a name of a charity and subsequently gets flamed for it).

    "

    I think what he said was:

    "Trusting a company that's only interested in profits is bad. They are becoming more and more arrogant towards customers, and couldn't care less about problems with their software or their ways."

    Please read carefully before you act like an idiot and pip in with a pointless snide comment. You may be particularly interested in the use of the word "only" in the quote above. I.E. the question is not whether a company is interested in profit (healthy), but rather whether they are *only* interested in profit (very unhealthy)

    Idiot.

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Microsoft's obsession with searching

    What is it with microsoft and searching, Indexing enabled by default, and now this.

    Who wants disk thrashing and wasted resourses, I mean really how often do you actually perform a search?

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Gates Horns

    Antitrust anyone?

    Didnt take microsoft to go back to their old tricks now did it?

    Embrace, Extend, Extinguish.

    Bungle, Bundle, Break (new markets)

  24. Paul
    Thumb Up

    Agreed, @myxiplx

    "Loving the comments from a couple of the MS supporters here; 'I have no problems so nobody else can either'.

    Nice world you live in there. Try not to get your ego stuck in the door on your way out...."

    Agree 100%. I see this a lot with the people who claim that Microsoft can do no wrong. (That said I also I see it happen with Mac and Linux folks too, and I know that while they blow Windows out of the water on reliability, they are by no means perfect themselves.)

    Perhaps the "I have no problems" people are the lucky ones who got the random install that wasn't messed up, or their definition of "no problems" is a lot looser than most, or maybe all they ever run on the thing is Minesweeper, Solitaire and a screensaver. Or maybe they're MS astroturfers and everything they say is BS/FUD.

    I even had it happen once, with Windows ME of all things, that I installed a system and it ran beautifully. It's the only Windows box I ever saw which had no notable problems. Around the same time I bought a laptop which also had (pre-installed) ME, and it was already at cruft force 5 by the time I'd finished booting it for the first time.

    If Windows was so bloody perfect, it wouldn't have the reputation it's had for most of it's life. If Vista was so flawless, people who have no religious devotion to one OS or the other (some of whom don't even know there *are* other OSes) would not be raising stink about how bad it is. Yet in all that, some people are going to be fortunate enough to not have problems. It's random that way. Which kind of disturbs me a little, now I think about it.

  25. Flocke Kroes Silver badge
    Go

    Software not available for linux

    Anyone got a clear spec for this unavailable software?

    How much is it worth to you and your competitors?

    Got a sample support contract?

    A new open source project will not have the tested and proven track record you require, but five years from now when Vista2 is a real threat you will wish you had published your requirements.

  26. Kensho_Admin
    Boffin

    WSUS

    Guys, I haven't even seen this update on my WSUS Server, and I just synchronized manually about 10 minutes ago. This just goes to show that you really need to spend some time configuring it so you don't get unwanted crap like WDS. I have WSUS set to only download "security" and "critical" updates. Since I am not getting WDS here, I doubt that it is being categorized as either one.

    Beyond that, I suspect that the people who had the update automatically approved for install need to uncheck "Automatically approve updates for installation using the following rule: " under the "Approve for Installation" setting. I have never had any patch automatically approved for installation. You could also create a "Test" group in WSUS and change the rule to approve for that group, if you are extra paranoid. Then don't put any computers in that group, or only ones that you'd like to hose if you are an evil-admin.

  27. teacake

    @Anonymous Coward

    "Your uninformed Linux is already used everywhere including data centers and supercomputers there isn't anything important it doesn't have a program to accomplish you are simply talking out your ass."

    Are you trying to say that Master Of Orion 2 isn't important?

  28. Mark

    Adam Onesti

    "I am amazed at the vitriol pouring at Chris C for his statement. Its almost like some of you have taken personal offence."

    Hey, CHris C STARTED IT.

    Ferchrissakes.

    He whinged that he didn't like being told it was his fault.

    That was a vitriolic attack (or at least as much as the responses were to him).

    Tough titty, it IS his fault. Not completely, but enough that he can't complain about people telling him to TRY.

  29. Mark

    To T O Hara

    "In all the companies I have worked for (6 to date) almost everyone uses their computer to create documents/spreadsheets/presentations/project plans/web browsing/wasting time and other administration activities. None of them need Windows and use it only because they don't know any better."

    No, they use it to create Word Documents. Excel SpreadSheets (with VBA). PowerPoint Slides and look at their IE-only intranet.

    A little forethought would have them creating documents, etc. But when all that matters is the quaterly report, the five-year-plan is all about how you get your workers to change, not how your decisions will change the company.

  30. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I hope they send someone to remove it from my PC

    As per norm MS will send everyone instructions or some tool to remove it. But I dont see why I must fix something someone else broke. If plumber brakes your boiler you dont pay and dispute it untill they send someone out to fix it.

    They can send some money to everyone for the bad service they bought into aswell as a free of charge engineer to remove it. No instead we will see some unknow org send MS a fine and all the people who suffred will not see a penny. All the paper and blogs will report this so you can feel a little better about it.

    Just my 2 cents on this.

    Ciao

  31. Alex
    Thumb Down

    WSUS

    I use WSUS, and had previously approved Windows Desktop Search in the hope and understanding that it would not go and install itself willy-nilly on every machine but update existing manually installed copies. Until the 24th, this was the case.

    On the morning of the 24th itself I had noticed that an update to WDS had been downloaded (and auto-approved since it was an update to an already approved update - something I am happy with) but instead of doing what it had previously (only updating those who already have it) it wanted to install on all machines. I had to quickly change it back to not approved before anyone else had installed it.

    Microsoft definitely have made a change for the worse with this particular product.

  32. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @ all the flaming fanboys

    Don't you think debating the topic in hand might be more productive than trying to claim that virtually every buisness could switch to 100% linux if they wanted to, and everyone is just being stupid and lazy?

    That's the sort of language that makes you look like a university student, or maybe a young IT admin for a small buisness. Not that there's anything wrong with either, but you really dont have the experience or knowledge to make sweeping statements about how most buisnesses could switch to linux if they wanted to. The real world ain't like that folks.

    As a side note, in my current position I am one of the lucky few who can (and do) run solely linux and unix. its nice. but i would never pretend its the norm.

  33. Rob
    Go

    @Adam Starkey

    Indeed a good point and your right that is what the poster said, which is why I quoted it.

    I was obviously not clear enough about my point, which was, nowadays it's more of a surprise to find a company that's keen on turning a good profit balanced against good customer service etc.

    Which in an ideal world should be the other way round, should we not be surprised when we come across a company that doesn't give a shit about it's customers and is only interested in profits.

    I just find it funny that people still expect a lot nowadays from companies when it's already been evidenced that profit is more of a driver than anything else.

    Hence the reason I added the remark about charities, as they seem to be the only people that work for the sole reason of providing a good service, which is as it should be.

    As someone else mentioned, maybe in the origins of a company charter once, but alot of people seemed to have forgotton it a long time ago.

    Your call (notice how I refrained from name calling, you numpty... DOH!)

  34. Don Mitchell

    Desktop and Toolbar Apps

    I hate applications that try to crawl the file system, and MS Desktop Search is only one of many. The Nero DVD burning software installed a search program that went out looking for media, Yahoo and Google installed tools that sometimes slayed my machine by searching your files.

    I don't install anybody's "desktop" or "toolbars" now, and that has improved performance on the browser and my system in general.

    It's too bad, because when Desktop Search was installed, it was handy to be able to do instant search queries on my email and files. But it was just too annoying, so I'll love with the default slow search program, which still can search my 100 gb of files in about a minute.

  35. RW
    Mars

    It's not a plot, it's just the usual MS incompetence

    I was once talking with a guy here who does contract work for MS. One thing he said has stuck in my mind: that MS is "incredibly arrogant."

    However, it appears to me that this arrogance usually manifests itself not as sinister plots, but as incompetence. They're so very sure they know what they're doing they're not about to contemplate the possibility that maybe, just maybe, they don't.

    Sometimes when I'm reading about the latest MS fuckup, I get the impression that someone at Redmond read a "For Dummies" book and now thinks they're an expert on some specialized field of knowledge or other. MS seems, as a corporation, to fully embody the modern MBA mindset that employees are interchangeable cogs in the machine and that experience, specialized knowledge, and unique abilities are irrelevant. Is it any wonder then that foulups like the one being argued about happen, or that Windows itself is notoriously badly programmed?

    I think the implications of my remarks in the present context are obvious.

  36. Andy

    Yes, but wherefore incompetence?

    RW, I agree with you in general -- The root problem is arrogance, which leads to incompetence, which leads to these cans of shit getting lobbed at undeserving users. However -- and this ties back to all the people whining about how companies are perfectly allowed to care only about profits earlier in this thread -- there's another problem which makes this worse. If MS listened to history or to its users' complaints, eventually this sort of thing would get fixed -- someone would hear them and think to fire the incompetents. The problem that's worse than arrogance is that they don't care. Yes, companies are perfectly able to care only about profits. But most companies, MS excluded, realize that the best way to maintain profits is to listen to their customers and modify their products to best satisfy the customer. MS's strategy, instead, is to maintain profits by forcing existing users to pay more money. Their arrogance isn't the only source of the problem (plenty of companies, in many markets, approach business with a "we're the best!" mentality -- including the consulting firm I work for); their unwillingness to pay attention to their customers is why they continue to get into these clusterfucks.

    Although, what does this say about the intelligence of those MS users (or in this case, IT departments) who willingly continue to pay more money to a company that has not once listened to their needs?

  37. Andy

    I suppose that...

    ...as long as I'm weighing in on the other topics, I'll weigh in regarding the software availability issue. Business users can be divided into three types:

    (A) Those who use a computer to do things like typing, keeping track of money, creating presentations, graphic manipulation, and other such applications. These people do not require Windows, as suites to do all of this and more are available for every major modern OS.

    (B) Those who maintain servers and data centers or act as technical support for group A. These people do not require Windows, as server software for almost any protocol is available (and usually better-implemented) for other major modern OSes.

    The vast, overwhelming majority of business users fall into the above categories.

    (C) Those who use custom-written software and are locked into whatever OS that software runs on. For those companies that choose to run Windows-only software, congratulations! You've chosen your OS vendor implicitly. But as I said in my first post, you get what you pay for, and you paid for a software bundle that directly has the consequence of giving control of your company's resources to MS. You knew this when you bought it; you get no sympathy. The alternatives are many: lobby the company to port their software to your preferred OS. Find a solution that involves combining features of more than one existing program for your preferred OS (it's amazing how often this will work). Or get equivalent software written for your company. There are plenty of consulting firms that can do this for you relatively cheaply, or you can hire some geeks and do it in-house. Don't pretend options aren't available just because someone is shoving Windows in your face.

    The true number of business users who cannot avoid using Windows is very, very small compared to the number who THINK they cannot avoid using Windows.

  38. Simon Westerby
    Joke

    Wonder if its called "Desktop Search" because ...

    ... 99.9% of computer users just save everything (they download) to the desktop ...

    .. Hmmm wonder when "My Documents Search" is gonna appear....

  39. Firetrue

    Bite me Microsoft

    I have nothing constructive to say after coming to work and finding every machine sodomized without my permission. Microsoft can bite my @ss.

  40. Morely Dotes
    Jobs Horns

    Was this a legal "forced installation" or not?

    It is illegal under Washington law to "induce a computer user to download software by falsely claiming the software is necessary for security purposes," according to Senior Counsel Paula Selis of the Washington State Attorney General's office.

    As a general rule, automatic updates are configured to download *only* patches required for security, or to correct known functional flaws.

    It would be interesting to ask Microsoft which way they decided to categorize the two "forced" installations. I fail to see how Desktop Search - or, for that matter, Windows Genuine Advantage - can be classified as security enhancements.

  41. Matt

    @ Steve Roper

    MS Bad, Google Good? Perhaps you've not heard of doubleclick or checked your machine for cookies by said and wondered what they do with your browse history? Tried to get rid of them? Checked up on who owns doubleclick?

  42. RK
    Stop

    all the arguments here...

    bring me around again to my conclusion that the core problem here isn't profit or arrogance or customer service or Linux/Mac/Windows (each of which have their strengths and weaknesses), but that the very nature of hardware/software development and, tbh, the fundamental nature of capitalism, is that leaving well-enough alone IS NOT acceptable.

    "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" is a phrase nearly everyone knows and nearly everyone agrees with, yet we have example after example of engineers, developers, what-have-you, that have to come up with the "new bigger better thing" that simply gobs up what already works pretty well. my theory is that this very thing is built into capitalism ("limitless growth") and all the rest just cascades down from there, mostly because all these companies are driven by the imperative to make more money than they did the previous quarter(s). couple that with marketing principles that insist on "new and improved" because they are convinced that people have to perceive something as "new and improved" (whether or not it really is) in order to be convinced to buy what they (often) don't need, and you've created "planned obsolescence" and forced people into that cycle, whether it's good for them or not. obviously there's examples where that was the best course of action, but there's plenty of examples where it was only best for the bottom line of the manufacturer (or appeared to be at the time), and the customers are left to pick up the pieces.

  43. Anonymous Coward
    Jobs Halo

    Seriously, how many of you actualy work in IT?

    I'm currently working on probably Europes largest installation of Linux to date - not that you'd have heard of it, real IT users rarely advertise their strategies ;-)

    OK, it's mainly server based and doesn't come across the issues you are discussing here, but it is pushing M$, IBM, HP and SUN out of the Data Centre, and when I say Data Centre I mean >4000 servers.

    When I look at this in conjunction with the in-roads Apple are making; my kids, wife, Uncle and more recently M$ fanatical brother-in-law have all purchased Macs I'm starting to believe that M$ as an Operating System is coming to it's end.

    With the advent of MONO for Linux and the introduction of virtualisation into the mainstream I wouldn't expect it to be too long before we see an OS independent version of M$ Office, followed by VM host versions of Exchange/MS-SQL etc. and M$ just getting out of the OS market space. Lets face it it is far more trouble than it's really worth and do they honestly make any money from it?

    If Linux can compete against 4 major players (M$, IBM, HP and SUN) in the Data Centre, just wait till we actually round on the Desktop space, with M$ and Apple the only players, we're gonna eat ya for breakfast.....q flame war :-)

    IT isn't difficult, manaing M$ and non IT educated numpties (go go Alan Brazil) is the problem.

  44. Pheet
    Gates Horns

    IF you think this is acceptable

    To those who think what happended is Ok or the sysadmins are at fault, I'll give a contrasting example.

    On my FreeBSD box, everyday a vulnerabilities database is scanned against the installed software, and I'm sent an email of a list (if any) of software that may have a problem.

    I can then decide to patch the software, deinstall/stop using it, or ignore if the vulnerability doesn't apply in my environment.

    This is very different to machines updating themselves without my say so, especially when extra software is installed.

    I'm waiting for the news (maybe tomorrow) that installing Desktop Search opens up a huge security vulnerability....

  45. O
    Gates Horns

    Search does phone home

    Not sure if my installation of XP has installed Desktop Search or not - it certainly hasn't asked me. What I do know is that when ever I use search, Zonealarm asks me if I want to allow search to commuicate with the M$ mothership - naturally, i always say no, having forgotten that it does this. Now, why does a search feature have to communicate with Redmond every time you use it, hmm?

  46. This post has been deleted by its author

  47. Geoff Mackenzie

    In fairness ...

    Windows is a cute little system. Maybe in a few years it'll be ready for the enterprise.

  48. tempemeaty

    Title

    It's my sincere hope that people will FINALLY start the practice of asking their favorite software vendors for their product on the alternate OS of their choice and remembering to name the version they would like it for. Dare I also mention doing so on a regular basis and not expecting once to suffice.

  49. Gordon Fecyk
    Alert

    I use WSUS 3, got WDS 3.01, declined it. What's the big deal?

    The thing wasn't automatically approved, it didn't automatically install, so we weren't bogged down with it.

    The only thing I can think of about our system that's different from the default WSUS system, is I removed the auto-approval rule that was placed. Even so, the only auto-approval rule was for "critical updates" and WDS 3 was under plain old "updates." It wouldn't have auto-approved.

    So are the WSUS admins whom were hit by Windows Desktop Search just lazy because they have all updates, not just critical ones, automatically approved? Sounds like good ol' end-user error to me.

  50. Anthony Kuhn

    Monkey business

    Dan:

    Microsoft needs to work out these kinks if they want users and staff to support them in their bid to quash any competitive OSes. I used to be in IT and can truly say one of the reasons I left was the never-ending treadmill of updates and patches and the resultant user fallout/anger. Meh. The model of software stability and expectations is broken.

    I cross-posted on your piece to http://blog.innovators-network.org The Innovators Network is a non-profit dedicated to bringing technology to startups, small businesses, non-profits, venture capitalists and intellectual property experts. Please visit us and help grow our community!

    Best wishes for continued success,

    Anthony Kuhn

    Innovators Network

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