back to article Experts: We're stuck with passwords – and maybe they're best

Late last year IBM reckoned biometrics would finally replace the password within the next five years. The prediction was part of a series that also speculated that the digital divide would cease to exist and that mind-reading technology would become a possibility. But, at least on the subject of passwords, new research from …

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          1. Charles 9

            OR...

            ...the fact that your hard drive crashed and the backup failed. Or you're trying to access the passwords from your phone where the secret password isn't kept for security reasons.

            1Password sounds interesting, but I hear the Android interface isn't well polished. I would also like to have a cloud sync to say Dropbox in case I change machines or phones (had a phone break--thank goodness for a phone insurance plan). Perhaps if there was an alternative...

        1. AdamWill

          it's very unlikely

          when you have to enter it about a dozen times a day. the (current) super password for my password database will likely be the very last thing that sticks in my rapidly declining grey matter at the terminal moment. what a sad thought...

          (actually, I've started to memorize some of the *completely random* passwords my password generator generates. amazing that you can memorize 12 random characters, which don't form anything even vaguely pronounceable, if you have to enter them manually maybe twenty times...the one i always recall is my wireless password, which I'm always entering on different devices and so can't just copy/paste from the manager.)

  1. Robert Carnegie Silver badge

    Some sort of dual key system.

    Nowadays a password that lets you into the bank has to be inconveniently long to be safe. So some arrangement is needed whereby you input a short personal authentication into a device that you and the service that you're using both trust - like an ATM. That device is the other part of the dual key.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Boffin

    Phone Proximity

    Someone has probably thoguht of this already, but if someones phone is fitted with an NFC device, even something inocuous fitted in the battery compartment, then the physical presence of the phone can also be used as a partial authorisation.

    if the person leaves the workstation and takes their phone with them, then the system logs them off, or locks the workstation, etc.

    Good idea, or a load of crap?

    1. Simon_E

      re: Phone proximity

      Been done.

      I played around with a bluetooth PC-locking program three or four years ago.

      Couldn't get it to _un_lock it automatically, though...

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    How a password should be

    "bruteforcemypasswordifyoucanyousillyhackeryou"

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      and add a digit to the end, that increases each time you have to change your password !!

  4. Anonymous Coward 15
    FAIL

    Detecting duress like...

    The emergency chocolate and flowers when you forget your anniversary?

    Christmas shopping?

    Paying off a loan shark/money shop/pawnbroker?

    Needing money for a cab at 3am after the trains have stopped?

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "In reality, ATM cameras using facial and iris recognition may be able to detect stress, pupil dilation, and changes in heart rate and breathing patterns to establish a confidence level that the user is not in danger."

    "It says it won't let me take any money out as I am stressed by all this mugging business, so put the knife away OK Mr Mugger?"

    So how long before the knife is put to good use cutting out/off the required body part to get the scanner to work?

    1. Anonymous Coward 101
      Windows

      Correct

      Mugger: "Give me your money or I'll shoot you!"

      Muggee: "I can't withdraw cash because the iris scanner says I am under too much stress!"

      Mugger: "Then calm down or I'll shoot you!"

  6. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    Passwords...

    http://xkcd.com/936/

    That says it all...

  7. MoreFun
    Go

    Tools like keepass ?

    I think that once you get used to tools like keepass (which I use), this becomes much less an issue, and the amount of passwords you can maintain increases dramatically.

    You do need to learn (and be confident) using them ...

  8. WinHatter
    WTF?

    even your DNA ...

    to protect my data ... well DNA tends to be leaked (pun intended).

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      and.....

      my evil twin brother will have access to all my shit !!

  9. TeeCee Gold badge
    Coat

    Predictions, passwords.......

    "The prediction was part of a series that also speculated..............."

    Did they say anything about the death of COBOL?

  10. Fenton

    God I hate passwords

    As a consultant working at multiple sites, they really have become a pain in the backside.

    Each site has different timeouts, different rules (and they sometimes change).

    The amount of time lost, due to having to reset passwords mounts up fairly quickly.

    Even a well maintained encrypted password solution has it's limitations (i.e. I forgot the password that was reset just before I went on holiday). Hard disk crashed and the last good backup was two weeks old. (how many of us have nightly backups of our laptops)

  11. PassiveSmoking

    Churchill is supposed to have once observed tha Democracy was the worst system of government, except for all the others that have been tried. Perhaps the same applies to passwords.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      paper says exactly this

      "Indeed it might be said of passwords that they are the worst possible authentication system, except for all the other systems"

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    What really winds me up is when sites ask you to set a password and then reject it for failing to meet various requirements that [and this is the really teethgrindingly annoying bit] they didn't tell you about in the first place:

    • Sorry. Your password must be at least six letters

    • Sorry. Your password must contain at least one number

    • Sorry. Your password cannot contain all numbers

    • Sorry. Your password must contain both upper and lower case

    • Sorry. Your password cannot be a dictionary word

    I start out with an idea for a password, which is secure enough for he risk-level associated with the site in question, and which I can remember but then, by the time I've jumped through all their ridiculous hoops to make it conform to their idea of what constitutes a secure password, it's so far removed from what I started off with that I have to write it down myself, so I'll remember it. Which kinda defeats the purpose!

    1. Tom 35

      Password tests

      Then you get something like P@ssw0rd that they say is secure.

      1. Keep Refrigerated
        FAIL

        And those bloody meaningless secure meters...

        Choose your password - must contain at least 8 characters:

        "Try h@cking this 5uckaz!!! &" Secure Meter: []

        ***Special chars not allowed!***

        "Try hacking this 5uckaz" Secure Meter: []

        ***Spaces not allowed!***

        "Tryhackingthis5uckaz" Secure Meter: [][][]

        ***Too long!***

        "passw0rd" Secure Meter: [][][][][] OGMZ SO SECURE!

        *** This is good - Proceed! ***

    2. Hungry Sean
      Flame

      groan

      or my most hated one:

      "your password contains an illegal character"

      Which is fucking useless considering it doesn't tell you which character exactly is forbidden (and they change with every site). Financial institutions pulling this garbage is particularly frustrating because this is one of the cases where I'm willing to go out of my way to use a particularly strong password.

    3. Headley_Grange Silver badge

      They're not protecting you....

      They're protecting themselves. They don't care if your password is weak - as long as there is a password. if it's compromised and you lose money then as long as the site can show that the loss was caused by someone using correct account and password information then the problem must be that you told someone your password or wrote it down somewhere. This way they don't have to pay up.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Trouble with a lot of biometrics is people leave them lying around. It would not be that difficult to get some fingerprints from a target without them being any the wiser.

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    It's got so ridiculous I spent two hours finding software for storing passwords that works on my desktop, my tablet and my phone, then syncs amongst them as at the last count I need to hold 86 personal passwords with associated websites, 19 gadget passwords at home and 53 work related passwords!

    All I have to do is lose my main password to the password safe and my life is for all intents purposes kaput!

    1. Headley_Grange Silver badge

      I use mSecure

      It syncs from PC to mobile devices.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Duress password

    I was told that banks (and other organisations) use your pin Plus or minus one as the duress password. This was from an annoyed secruity guard after I had just "almost" got my little used pin to a secure area right

    Took me a while to submit this as I couldn't remember what username and password I had used when I created this account years ago!!!

  16. Dadz
    Paris Hilton

    "even your DNA"???

    New DNA-based system: There is a pinkie finger-sized hole. It says "insert finger here."

    When I insert a finger, a clamp locks the finger in place, then a solenoid pricks the finger - drains out some blood for a DNA test - then the clamp unlocks. Five minutes later, the DNA test is complete and I have access. (The system would also check for a pulse and oxygen in the blood to ensure I'm not putting someone else's finger in; it could also scan the fingerprint).

    1. Charles 9

      Dirty needles.

      Hate to be behind the guy with HIV or AIDS who uses the system. And there may be other diseases out there hardy enough to withstand various means of "cleaning" the needle afterward.

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Cards form a new security hazzard

    Its partly personal interest and partly for work; but right now I'm checking how well Windows 7 operates using an rfid card reader. SO basically assigning specific cards to a specific user account.

    Well, needless to say but Windows 7 is very extensive with this. Merely plugging in the cardreader (USB) will already trigger a change in "Admin pop-ups". Instead of having to type in a password you can now also "insert" the assigned card.

    But the problem with this setup should be obvious.. Its much easier to simply keep your card lying on the rfid reader and click "ok" as soon as the prompt shows up. As such; while it makes authentication easier, it also increases the risk factor tremendously when dealing with common end-users.

    End users care more about ease of use than security whereas admins and techies sometimes tend to swing a bit too much to the other side of the fence.

    So yes; I think passwords will indeed be around for quite some time to go.

  18. Marty McFly Silver badge
    Boffin

    Still only one factor

    Password = Something you know

    Token = Something you have

    Biometrics = Something you are

    Switching from passwords to biometrics does not enhance security. It only changes it from one factor to another. Now ADDING biometrics to passwords - that will improve security.

  19. OffBeatMammal
    FAIL

    frustration

    the problem is that while there are some quite viable alternatives - yubiKey or the RSA SecureID/VIP app there's no interoperability and everyone wants to roll their own... and totally pointlessly sites require users to sign up for an account (true even in many cases where you can log-in via OAuth.. you still have to fill out a profile)

    the niggly little differences in detail (8 characters, 6 characters plus 2 digits, 10 characters at least one upper case, one digit and one special character, no special characters) just lead to frustration and security busting solutions like post-it notes. even though I know better I use a password manager solution (though it is one secured with a yubiKey token) but it doesn't help with some banking sites that additionally want me to use an on-screen keyboard and enter specific characters from the password.... aaaaaargh

  20. Peter 48

    more complex isn't the trick

    I would have thought one simple way of improving password security is limiting the number of false entries you can make when trying to enter a password and in the simplest cases require a captcha or similar system to reset the count or require separate verification over the phone or in person (with banks). Also stop requesting the entire password, instead only ask for extracts of it (my bank does that for example). Use onscreen keyboards where you have to click with the cursor to enter the password / pin would reduce the risk of keystroke captures. Where pin numbers or passwords are entered on touch screens they should randomize the position of the entry keypad to reduce the risk of reading your fingerprint smudges. There are numerous methods you could easily use to make passwords & pins more secure without increasing their complexity.

    1. Charles 9

      Then you end up with false negatives.

      Excerpts of passwords only work if you're able to arbitrarily memorize PARTS of a password, but many people memorize the password by some sort of mnemonic and so go from start to finish: otherwise, they mess up. That could be frustrating in a scenario where you can't type the whole thing and than backtrack (think ATMs). In any event, extracts simply make the malware get a little smarter and recognize that passwords being entered are incomplete. If the malware records the card number, the excerpt, and what the excerpt represents, they'll reconstruct the entire thing after enough fishing. On-screen keyboards with random layouts? Useless to the blind (they need to be able to FEEL the keys—usually by Braille) and powerless against screenreader malware and overlays that can point a camera at the screen. And since you can't physically rearrange a physical keyboard...

  21. J.G.Harston Silver badge

    My one insistance is that passwords should be case insensitive. I remember my password as "fredgardengolfbag" (or whatever). I do NOT remember my password as upper f lower e lower r upper d. It is "fredgardengolfbag".

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Trying to make things secure often makes them very insecure!

    Organisations should think long and hard about how people actually use passwords and how important the data being secured is?

    And remember that the more difficult it is, the more users will write it down (and often stick it on a post it note on the their desk!)

    The Olympic volunteer web site required IIRC alpha numeric, mixed case >8 chars and the information is held is of low to medium importance. I hate to think of the password requirements for their financial and anti terrorist security depts!

  23. Keep Refrigerated
    Boffin

    2-Part Authentication

    Biometric data should only really be used to complement the password authentication.

    So ideally something like this: You walk up to the ATM and the screen reads, "Hello and welcome back! Your last name begins with "R" and your first name contains the letter "E", is this correct? Then there could be 3 names to choose from for you to select, then enter your password. This could then be used for panic mode... the delay in answering the questions about your identity serve to keep the mugger in the same spot whilst security arrive.

    Rather than using facial recognition though, a much more secure and simpler implementation, would be combining methods to identify if more than one person was present at the ATM. So have the customer stand on a pressure pad that calculates the weight, along with a camera that identifies number of bods present. You could also have a rotating screen slide around the ATM which only has room for one person.

    I've actually seen this kind of thing (weight + sliding screen door) implemented in a security door in Austria. It occasionally refused you access and you had to step out and in again - but this is something the hoi polloi is already conditioned to deal with in other areas.

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