back to article Hundreds of UK CSC staff face chop, told to train Indian replacements

Computer Science Corporation (CSC) workers heading for the chopping block in Britain have been asked to train their replacements in India and the Czech Republic. Some 750 staff in the UK have been threatened with redundancy under the IT giant's global workforce shakeup, and roughly 200 roles will be moved offshore. CSC - …

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Gotta love the wording...

    'We estimate that up to 750 employees will be impacted in the UK, all of whom will be supported professionally, compassionately and with assistance, where necessary, in their transition from CSC. We continue to explore other opportunities within CSC to place our UK employees. A small number of CSC's UK employees are supporting the knowledge transfer for specific roles moving to other CSC locations, and they are being additionally compensated.'

    Not a negative word in sight and certainly no mention of the 'r' word. Sadly this is all to common amongst the big US corporates.

    1. Down not across

      Re: Gotta love the wording...

      "...in their transition from CSC."

      Funny how they refrain from mentioning what the employees are transitioning to. Guess adding "into unemployment." wouldn't so "compassionate".

  2. Andy Fletcher

    This happened to my brother in law

    He helped train developers off shore prior to his redundancy. He has a masters in computational mathematics.

    One year later the company rang him and begged him to come back. He did. I told him he might consider telling them where to stick it.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: This happened to my brother in law

      My approach would be to ask for a minimum 25% rise over what I was being paid/what my current role pays (whichever is higher)

  3. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Sure I'll train my replacement

      This happened in a place I was working while we were undergoing team-building sessions. One person was asked how the session would change what he did when he got back to his desk and the response was rather blunt...

      'No difference, I have to train some offshore person who barely understands English how to do my job in 3 weeks then I get pushed out of the door'

      That was the last of the team building sessions...

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    This is the result of the government wanting to pay less to companies they have contracts with. In the end they still want the work to be done but don't want to pay as much.

    I'd expect that most people won't accept a 30-50% wage cut and so they outsource it somewhere cheaper.

  5. adam payne

    I guess these people still haven't learnt that outsourcing doesn't work.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Failed outsourcing

      I worked on a contract a couple of years ago at an Australian fizzy beer manufacturer. They had outsourced all their IT to a low-cost offshore shop and made all their internal IT redundant. I could spend all morning listing examples of the laughably poor "service" that was being provided.

      Suffice to say, every week I was there email or internet access or both was down for at least a full work day. We had a major production server problem we were working through and at 4:59pm all the Wipro guys put their coats on and left.

      The Accenture consultants and former management who had made the decision to outsource had all moved on to their next victims and the company was left in a shambles because of it. I can't believe anyone still falls for it - but apparently those in the UK who procure services don't read or research others' experiences.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Groan... So glad to be out that mess of a company

    I'm one of the crowd who took VR 18 months ago, since then my life could not be any better. We went through all this shite, training offshore bods etc. I thought they would've learnt their lessons in the fact that this delayed response book cooking (which is what it boils down to) only harms functionality of affected departments in the long term. I saw service levels signifacntly plumet and in-house knowledge was pared back to a operational minimum or less.

    Something to highlight the cultural differences between the current on-shore VS off-shore staff. On Inidan fellow (head coder) took a dump in a urinal in the office! Cultural differences aside, if you can't work that one out then why the hell are you head of dev implementation for a sodding NHS project!

    To my ex colleagues, jump ship, let these arseholes rot in their own mess, you deserve so much more, and it is out there!

    P.S I know exactly which spokeswoman you have quoted, lets just say I hope she runs into the BOFH one day.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Groan... So glad to be out that mess of a company

      There are actually signs up, picture signs, in our place demonstrating how to use a toilet properly. The are also signs up telling people to put used toilet paper down the toilets and not in the bins. Lovely isn't it!

    2. mrgrumps

      Re: Groan... So glad to be out that mess of a company

      I think leaving 18 months ago was the right move. Regardless of forced redundancies, there are a large number of people actively pursuing other interests as CSC isn't the company they once thought it was.

      They always say that the grass is greener until you get there, but from what I'm hearing from a number of ex CSC employees, who were either made redundant or left voluntarily, their working lives are the better for it.

      As for Lorenzo.. well... I'd hate to leave my ex-colleagues in a bit of a predicament if it all went 'tits-up'. The sad thing is, I've a feeling it will, despite the hard work on the ground that has been performed by some very dedicated staff. That commitment is gone. The troops are demoralised, left picking up pieces of work outside of their original roles due to previous 'cost cutting' exercises, and ultimately finding themselves doing an entirely different job.

      There are several comments on here regarding the original outsourcing to Chennai as far as coding is concerned, and I fully agree with them... it not not only takes two bites at the cherry to get things right, it's 3, 4, and 5 until there's pretty much nothing left to bite at and we start again. The issues regarding it's development are becoming folklore.... there is obvious lack of trust in their ability to deliver, given the fact they continually have to fly people from the UK to tell them how to do it properly. I don't wish to leave too much criticism at the door of India, and I could go on much further. but even back in the UK, the efforts to reduce costs, whilst having to shoe-horn the product in, are having a seemingly evident impact on delivery.

      I would never advocate the use of throwing as much resource as possible into a place thinking it will get the job done. Quicker or better! But by reducing their presence and headcount on site, it's clear from discussions with ex-colleagues and NHS staff, that CSC has opened the door for a number of contracting opportunities for those it's either managed to 'release', or in fact just simply 'piss-off'. It will get to a stage where CSC is just the brand of a product supported and delivered by many different entities, with little, if any real accountability.

  7. dazzzler

    When are they going to start 'outsourcing' high level management?

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Message to anyone affected.

    Having been through redundancy once or twice myself. I have the following advice to anyone reading who may be affected:

    Although your (soon to be ex) employer will most likely 'inform' you of all your rights/options via their HR dept, I implore you to seek independent advice on redundancy law as they are very unlikely to give you the whole story.

    Don't make it too easy for them.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Message to anyone affected.

      That is very good advice. Whilst everyone has their own jokes about lawyers, a good employment lawyer will bring a lot more experience to the table than a well meaning but often patchily trained union rep. Also HR will generally take a lawyer far more seriously than a union rep.

      Obviously everyone has to make their own choice but in my experience you should use use your lawyer to negotiate the best financial package possible. A job is just the same as any other long term relationship. If one of the parties has made it clear they don't want to be part of it anymore, in the long term you are better off out of it.

  9. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
    Flame

    Smoking the Marxist bong!

    "Workers who are paying the ultimate price of their jobs" (says someone called Ian Tonks, a Unite national officer)

    Just being full of it. The one who pays is CSC. It's called wages.

    "WORKERS TRAPPED IN SALARY CONTRACTS! TRAGIC, UNACCEPTABLE!!"

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Smoking the Marxist/Capitalist bong!

      Tell me, pray, where is this mint from which CSC gets its money? Just how successful would they be without employees? It is a mutual arrangement for mutual benefit, whereby employees earn the money from customers for the firm as a whole to exist (unless it is a one man firm). Get over it.

  10. OffBeatMammal

    vote (with your wallet)

    the answer to, at least some of, this problem is for the UK to vote with it's wallet on the issue.

    for Govt contracts to only be awarded to companies who staff projects in the UK and for UK businesses to follow suit or at least insist on the equivalent standards - just because you can get three bodies for the price of 1 doesn't mean they're going to be as productive (or even capable of understanding the question they're being asked - ESL adds a layer of cognitive dissonance that can see things go horribly off the rails)

    the problem is ... then you have to look at some of the historical mess that is employment legislation and taxation to try and help make it competitive to onshore and then it all starts to fall down... that's hard and politicians don't like to do anything that's either hard or going to upset the people who line their pockets for short term agendas...

    If you've not read this... it's interesting reading http://www.businessinsider.com/business-and-the-economy-2013-7

    1. Rol

      Re: vote (with your wallet)

      I read with interest an article that, once upon a time, was never out of the news, but now is rarely mentioned.

      The article happened to mention in passing, that the UK's balance of payments for the last financial year was over £100 Beeellion in the RED.

      Or to put it more pertinently, UK plc, is trading at a ridiculously unsustainable loss, year in year out.

      All we seem to have left are service industries and as this article makes clear, not for long!

      Take your redundancy money, buy some land, seeds, a shovel and a pig while you can.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: vote (with your wallet)

        > Take your redundancy money, buy some land, seeds, a shovel and a pig while you can.

        Is the pig in case you get lonely?

      2. Nuke
        Facepalm

        @Rol - Re: vote (with your wallet)

        Rol wrote :- "I read with interest an article that, once upon a time, was never out of the news, but now is rarely mentioned. .... that the UK's balance of payments for the last financial year was over £100 Beeellion in the RED."

        That has puzzled me too. Years ago (1970's ? Showing my age), the Balance of Payments was never out of the news. The UK exported £x million and imported £x+y million. We just HAD to do something about it,. Yet when Mrs Thatcher came along the media and politicians forgot all about Balance of Payments and instead we HAD to do something about unemployment (Mrs T was "good" at unemployment). Then the unemployment topic was superseded by inflation, now we HAD to drop everything else and do something about that.

        Did we give up on Balance of Payments and unemployment then? Sounds like with outsourcing abroad that we have thrown in the towel in both those areas.

        Rol wrote :- "All we seem to have left are service industries and as this article makes clear, not for long!"

        Mrs T loved service industries and hated manufacturing because it was "smoky and dirty"; as you might expect from a shopkeeper's daughter. So she thought we should live by services and buy our manufactured stuff from abroad, made by foreigners who were probably dirty already, preferably on the far side of the world, as far away as possible. She assumed that no-one in the world could possibly better our finance industry and grocery shops. This has remained the UK's economic model ever since.

        But Mrs T never anticipated the Internet, which makes it even easier to relocate a service job abroad than a manufacturing one. It is easier to import a website design than a car.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          WTF?

          Re: @Rol - vote (with your wallet)

          > Mrs T <snip> hated manufacturing because it was "smoky and dirty"

          I think you'll generally hated it because she should see the way the future was going. Britain doesn't have any natural resources so everything must be shipped in, a small customer base so everything must be shipped out, and workers who are generally expensive to employ (for multiple reasons). It hardly stacks up to a competitive position v.s. most of the Asian economies ...

          If you were in heavy industry and looking to open a factory, and had a choice of anywhere in the world, would you honestly open a factory in Britain?

          It may come as a surprise but "the government" doesn't run the factories. Companies too. Companies also vote with their feet, and so far the message is "you lose". The only influence the government has over employment is (1) taxes and (2) cost of employment. Successive governments have been trying very hard to raise both, either directly via taxes or via additional costs (Health and Safety, increased red tape, mandatory pensions, minimum wage, etc) often at the behest of the masses. You can't have both great employment and all of the welfare tick boxes you want.

          Choose.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: @Rol - vote (with your wallet)

            P.S. I agree outsourcing IT is a terrible idea, and almost never works unless you co-locate a lot of your own team in "off shore". But this has very little to do with manufacturing ...

          2. Nuke
            WTF?

            @Pete H - Re: @Rol - vote (with your wallet)

            Pete H wrote :-

            "I think you'll [find Mrs T] generally hated [manufacturing] because she should see the way the future was going. "

            You are claiming that Mrs T had little or no hand in the transformation of the UK from a manufacturing nation into a nation of service industries?! Then you cannot have been around during her time, nor awake during her funeral "tributes" more recently.

            "Britain doesn't have any natural resources so everything must be shipped in"

            You'd better go back to those geography and history classes. Britain has significant deposits of coal, iron ore (what did you think the industrial revolution was based on?), China clay, non-ferrous metals, gas and oil. One day soon we will need to re-open those mines that Mrs T hated so much.

            "[Britain has] workers who are generally expensive to employ (for multiple reasons) ... would you honestly open a factory in Britain?"

            How are we so different from Germany and France, who did not follow the Thatcherite route and from whom we now import so many of our cars, electrical and other manufactured goods? And does not "expensive workers" apply to service workers too?

            My view of the UK today is close to the 'B' Ark in Hitchikers' Guide. But we cannot just keep taking in each other's washing, or sit on our arses and "not work" because we are "expensive". We will be like a man dying of thirst because he thinks that a drink is not "good value for money" (I'm sick of that Thatcherite meme). When the rest of the world won't sell us anything because we have nothing to sell them, we are going to have to roll our sleeves up and start mining, farming and making things for ourselves again, good "value for money" or not; or just die, like one of those Sub-Saharan nations.

          3. PJI

            Re: @Rol - vote (with your wallet)

            "Britain doesn't have any natural resources"

            So you did not study geography. Britain has rather a lot, still, including mineral, agricultural, marine and geographical. But the economics, of who can fall to the bottom first, made it "uneconomical" to modernise their extraction and "economical" to have large swathes of your people unemployed or in barely subsistence work. Simultaneously, the transport, health and educational infrastructure are neglected or, even worse, deliberately degraded in the name of short term "savings". As a part of Europe, it is actually very well placed.

            Somebody forgot, it is not Great Britain PLC, an imaginary entity whose inhabitants can be made redundant and so lost from the population, that can be "offshored". A country is made up of its people, rich, poor, hopeless, retired, vigorous, productive. Note that in real emergency, e.g. all out war or epidemic, business is subordinated to the needs of the country, not the other way around.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: @Rol - vote (with your wallet)

              > So you did not study geography. Britain has rather a lot, still, including mineral, agricultural, marine and geographical.

              Agricultural: Really? Land area per head of population we have less than Germany, France, and Spain. Much of the UK land is hilly and hard to work and/or gets less sun each year than mainland Europe. Increasingly the only way for a farm to be commercially successful is to make larger and larger flat fields which can be worked by fewer people and bigger machines. UK planning law and geography make this difficult, so instead we pay tax (cost on the rest of the economy) to pay farmers to maintain empty fields and keep the hedgerows looking nice. We may get less than France but British agriculture is still subsidised, so not exactly a shining beacon of successful economics.

              Marine. I'll ignore the fact that most of European fisheries have had reducing quotas, and fishing fleets in port for more and more weeks of the year. Yep, gotcha, huge reserves. Not. Or were you talking about North Sea gas, a supply so plentiful and abundant than in the last few years we have become a net importer of gas.

              Mineral. UK coal production peaked in the late 1940s, years before competition from gas, nuclear, etc. Seams became harder to work, and so cost to extract went up. Assorted Tin, Lead, and Silver mines have existed on commercial scale, but mostly exhausted by the early 1900s. Scotland had aluminium with the Baco reservoir at Blacklake to power the hydro power, similarly exhausted in the first half of the 20th century.

              Geographical. Well about the only thing "geography" is good for in the absence of minerals is walking holidays. If you think you can convince the rest of Europe to come here to go walking, and thus save your economy, then good luck.

              In the absence of facts in your post, I suspect I know a lot more about geography than you do. The only way to commercially extract the minerals in this nation and make them competitive is either to pay the workers less, mass-scale automation (and so not employ people anyway), or subsidize them with money from other parts of the economy. I welcome counter arguments ...

              P.S. In general I agree with your arguments - in an "ideal economy" (i.e. theoretical communism) everyone works for the greater good and everything is wonderful. Apart from the fact that it doesn't work, we don't live in a communist society, and companies are competitive little buggers.

              The only thing "GB PLC" can do to work out of this is to make ourselves more attractive to outside investment, either through lower wages, lower taxes, ease of doing business, or more skilled and motivated workers. The evidence to date is that this is not happening, outside of cases where we do have established expertise (specialty steel, for example). Discussion welcome - but I see nothing in your post which is actually trying to propose a solution.

              > A country is made up of its people, rich, poor, hopeless, retired, vigorous, productive.

              The same buggers who bitch a lot and then refuse the buy British because it costs a few quid more?

              ... and for the previous posts w.r.t. unions in Germany and how come they still have a manufacturing base. Unions in Germany for the most part seem to be sensible. For example, there have been multiple instances in the last few years of the unions actually talking to the companies (car companies in this case) and negotiating when a site move was threatened. Cheaper to run a factory in Hungary you say, well how about we cut wages by a few percent and work a few extra hours?

              British unions still seem to have the "our way or death, never surrender to the bastards" mentality, which both kills the existing businesses (hello Royal Mail) and is a huge discouragement for any large multinational looking at the UK.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Tell em to go to Hell

    This is wrong and execs who do this should be prosecuted for coercion.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The company I work for only exists because people outsource their IT to far flung places and they suddenly realise they have a need for UK hosted and run applications and services either due to regulatory obligations (Gas Industry) or due to the poor responsiveness of their new 'cheap' Outsource partner. Cost can't just be measure in £ saved per year on the service, lost productivity by the rest of the Business is a major issue and cost. Not all Outsourcing is bad but when it takes a week to get a new employee an account and they are sitting their twiddling their thumbs it is not helpful. About a year ago a client of ours outsourced to an Indian support centre, this one clients support cases to us increased over 400% ending up in us hosting the application for them. Great for us not so much for the balance sheet I'd imagine.

  13. Beelzeebub
    Pint

    Fuck CSC

    That is all, I'll get my coat

  14. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    Unhappy

    Tricky question. Will they give you a rubbish reference if you tell them to get stuffed?

    Just a thought.

    Corporations spout on endlessly about "loyalty," "development" and "opportunities."

    Don't believe a f**king word of it. Money talks, bu****it walks.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Tricky question. Will they give you a rubbish reference if you tell them to get stuffed?

      No, you probably won't get a rubbish reference. Most corporates these days will only provide basic information such as confirming employment, job title and length of service when asked for a reference; discussing anything useful like your performance led to too many problems for them.

      Telling them to get stuffed could affect your redundancy package though...

      1. TkH11

        Re: Tricky question. Will they give you a rubbish reference if you tell them to get stuffed?

        Telling an employer to get stuffed can not affect your redundancy package. They can't customise the redundancy package to each individual on whether they like the individual.

        If telling the employer involves doing something wrong of sufficient magnitude they invoke disciplinary proceedings which then results in termination of your employment contract, then they have fired you and your exit from the company is being fired and not being made redundant and hence you won't get the redundancy package.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Tricky question. Will they give you a rubbish reference if you tell them to get stuffed?

          'Telling an employer to get stuffed can not affect your redundancy package. They can't customise the redundancy package to each individual on whether they like the individual.'

          True to a point but many redundancies are handled using Compromise Agreements which are customised to individuals. I suspect telling an employer to get stuffed could certainly affect what was offered under such an agreement.

          1. TkH11

            Re: Tricky question. Will they give you a rubbish reference if you tell them to get stuffed?

            You don't understand, a compromise agreement is not redundancy, both result in termination of the employment of the individual. There are only a few ways ( as far as i know, in law) to terminate the employment contract (if you have been with an employer for more than one year)

            1) Redundancy

            2) Compromise agreement

            3) Dismissal through disciplinary proceedings.

            Different rules and process apply to each. If an employer declares redundancies and announces the start of a minimum 45 day consultation period ( recently changed from 90) and they then select a preferred person (according to the selection criteria) then they are definitely going down the route of redundancy, and if they were then trying to diddle you out of money by then changing to a compromise agreement, that could well be illegal.

            Once they have selected a mechanism to terminate your employment, I think they would be on unsafe ground to change it, unless they had a good lawful reason, such as the employee doing something grossly wrong and then necessitating the invocation of the disciplinary process.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Tricky question. Will they give you a rubbish reference if you tell them to get stuffed?

              I do understand, and I stand by my point.

              Whatever the technicalities, I hope the people affected at CSC receive good packages, whether or not they tell their management to get stuffed.

    2. long term sufferer csc
      FAIL

      Re: Tricky question. Will they give you a rubbish reference if you tell them to get stuffed?

      Legally they cannot give you a rubbish reference, I think at best they can decline.

      CSC is so risk averse of tribunals they will give a standard reference - worked here, blah blah for anyone even if performance poor....

      SO you can tell them what you want....

      But with your post on "get stuffed" I expect they will be glad to see the back of you...

  15. Lallabalalla

    Oh I'll train those foreign workers real good...

    Yes. When we want to say thank you we always say "I shag your mother up the behind"

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I work for CSC

    A large part of the reason for the 'success' of the NHS project --- where we had to give back a billion to gov.uk, FFS --- is the poor quality of the offshore product. I have seen quite a lot of offshore code and most of that was utter cack which would have shamed any decent 1st year undergrad, let alone a self-styled 'Senior Software Architect'.

    The thing is, however, that the cost of fixing it comes out of a different budget and therefore it still looks cheap. This is my problem with bean counters - most of them can't count beans. For a trivial reduction in the cleaning bill, we have fewer bins per floor - so tens of people who earn 5-10x minimum wage etc, spend time going further to the bin to save a single minimum wage worker a few minutes to empty it. Penny pinching on expenses, etc, drives down morale to such an extent that the loss of productivity is significant, but the person who saved that 1% gets a bonus and fucks off to the next company.

    Managers should have long-tail liability insurance, like civil engineers. The latter cannot shave 1-2% off the cost of materials for a bridge and be nowhere to be found when it fails, but these goons sail in, slash a few short term costs, generate a huge, but somewhat hidden medium or long term liability and take their bonus, and their P45, before the latter becomes apparent. In a proper profession it would be considered criminal negligence.

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Missing info

    So what kind of package is being offered to those being made redundant. Is it statutory minimum, two weeks per year of service or something else?

  18. John Tserkezis

    I lost my job to India and all I got was this lousy T-shirt.

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/03/09/ny_times_in_my_job/

    Not the first time this has happened, and unfortunately, I don't think it's anywhere near the last.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I lost my job to India and all I got was this lousy T-shirt.

      That would be 2012, just a bit more recent than 2004.

      http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2012/08/13/csc_job_cuts/

      an event I remember all to well. There were about, so it was said, 600 to go with 800 VR requests and CSC went for 300 VR and 300 CR, the unions wanted an 80/20 split not 50/50. 5 Years before, we also had redundancies at the same site.

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    You get what you pay for.....

    Its a false economy. You get twice as many workers for your money, but it takes 5 times as long to get anything done. Even then its usually incorrect. And as people never hang around long enough to hand anything over, or document to any useful degree, you end up with a bunch of point solutions that don't integrate well into the overall estate.

    But as long the arsehole who though it would be a great idea to outsource gets a golden wank-job from his manager, then they'll always get away with it because the chaos comes much later.

    I'm in the middle of such a nightmare right now. The stories I could tell you would even make Dilbert shake his head and cry.

    1. TkH11

      Re: You get what you pay for.....

      It is interesting to read the experiences of others here with Indian off shoring, which mirror mine. The quality of the Indian developers is generally not very good, I have come across a few exceptions.

      One indian guy here in the UK told me, when an employer receives a bunch of CV's from potential Indian recruits, the only thing that is accurate on that CV is the name on the top ( the rest is lies).

      I work on two major projects and the bean counters are trying to off shore it, of course the company is run by accountants that just see figures on a spreadsheet, the daily rate of an indian employee, but the bean counters don't understand the complexity of the systems, the higher turnover of indian staff ( not long after they are trained up, they go, so we don't train them properly to prevent that), they need greater supervision which takes more time away (and increased cost) from the English based staff.

      They will off shore my job in time, but they will regret it, but the bean counters ignore what we tell them. What do we expect? They are accountants, not techies.

  20. N2

    What a damm cheek

    I would train replacements to greet people with an eloquent "Fuck off" or something similar.

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Who cares about CSC Losers?!?

    Some years ago, an Australian CSC employee dared mention on Full Disclosure that he was all about it. Until that is, I brought up the fact that their "TCE" (Training Center of Excellence), in Newport News, VA had their Domain Controller on the web with no FW (yes, that includes NetBIOS, Kerberos, DNS, etc), in which their CISSP (Joke) quickly contacted me and siphoned all the info without so much as a thanks.

    So long suckers, as in you SUCK!!!! Computer suck-a$$ Corp. Nothing more.

  22. Maverick

    we can all help here, a little at a time . . . refuse to accept . . .

    our friends from Virgin Media came calling a couple of weeks ago, decent offer I guess at ~5x speed for 50p more than I am paying (mind you took these idiots 18 years to stuff fibre down the trunking they laid!!)

    my answer "when it goes wrong (usually BT in India making a mistake in remote management of the frame in the exchange**) I call an ENGINEER in UK available 24x7, he doesn't have a script, he listens to me, checks it out, agrees with me, and opens a ticket with BT - can you match that?"

    erm nup

    bye then

    ** happened 3 times so far over last 7 years

  23. xyz Silver badge

    I thought it worked like this...

    You're redundant

    Oh

    Before you go can you train up these guys?

    No

    Then you leave and get recruited back as a training consultant on £600 a day because you're the expert in that system.

    1. Jigr69

      Re: I thought it worked like this...

      If you leave one company, and come back to the same company as a freelance consultant without having another job/contract in between the two, you are classed as being a full time person and HAVE to pay the appropriate taxes! It's a stipulation that defines whether you, in the eyes of the taxman, are essentially a full time person working for a company, or working for yourself.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: I thought it worked like this...

        Not if "your" company is in the Cayman islands and is being paid to do this and only pays you in loans - then just like these guys you pay no tax at all!

      2. billse10

        Re: I thought it worked like this...

        that highlights the stupidity of the tax rules, not whether or not someone should do it ...

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