back to article Windows 8.1 to freeze out small business apps

While Microsoft is happy with the “appification” of Windows, and prepares to go-live with Windows 8.1 on October 18, it's created a gap between present and future that could be a stumbling block for a bunch of small ISVs. The kind of company that lives between the consumer and the enterprise will still be able to create and …

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          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: @AC 16:36GMT - Yes, Microsoft!!

            http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/04/03/microsoft_linux_kernel_contributions/

            Do ANY of you people actually read The Register or do you just come here to snipe on the forums?

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: @AC 15:34GMT - Show MS how you feel....

            SMB *is a proprietary protocol* - thereby MS can modify it at its will. But what it does is documented - so what's the problem? That SAMBA project needs to keep its code updated? SMB2 and SMB3 are welcome improvements, they are much faster and less complex.

            Anyway today being a decent domain controller means an "Active Directory Domain Controller", not an "NT Domain Controller". There's much more to implement than the SMB protocol.

            Anyway why SAMBA moved to GPLv3 to cut out Apple? It looks everybody attempts to play its own game.

        1. JEDIDIAH
          Mushroom

          Re: Show MS how you feel....

          > Are they trying to kill Linux by being one of the major contributors to the kernel

          They are no such thing.

        2. Goat Jam

          Re: Show MS how you feel....

          "(Microsoft) being one of the major contributors to the (Linux) kernel . . .

          LOL

          Now that is pretty serious misinformation.

          Cluelessly ignorant or malicious liar, YOU be the judge.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Show MS how you feel....

            "LOL

            Now that is pretty serious misinformation.

            Cluelessly ignorant or malicious liar, YOU be the judge. "

            OK, we've judged. And YOU, sir, are a COMPLETE AND IGNORANT FAILURE.

            http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/04/03/microsoft_linux_kernel_contributions/

            Next time someone states a fact you may wish to confirm the details before spouting off.

        3. Michael Habel

          Re: Show MS how you feel....

          As for VNs Servers, and the Internet.... Could it be that that's mostly all handled by Apache running under Linux?

          1. mmeier

            Re: Show MS how you feel....

            The reason is simple but the Gnuliban do not like it:

            It's cheap!

            Running an external website on say Solaris means you have to buy a licence. Imagine the big "cracked Linux box for Botnet control" providers like 1&1 in germany running all their boxes on it and the 9€/month V-servers are gone. There is a reason they typically do not offer RedHat for these boxes either

            The same goes for the admins that are more often than not "just out of university" (or even "still student") personal that manages it's "pet distribution". With the well known problems and with quite a few distributions offered that are "past shelf life"

            Companies like Amazon (AMI) take a different route as does Google with Android. They select "best of breed", castrate it so it does not mutate and use that "Linux Kernel" for a long time. With a limited environment they can risk decoupling themselfs from the "quarterly changes"

            1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
              Paris Hilton

              Re: Show MS how you feel....

              Except that you can install a nice Fedora 19 on Amazon EC2.

              So what are you on about?

              And please stop the retarded Linux baiting.

  1. theastrodragon

    The whole fiasco reminds me of one of those people in their car ignoring the road while following their GPS over a cliff...

  2. MrWibble
    Coffee/keyboard

    "The author is attending TechEd Australia as a guest of Microsoft, which has shelled out for travel, accommodation, nourishment and Nokia."

    :)

  3. Saul Dobney
    Facepalm

    Why is Microsoft aping Apple? Apple has always been a consumer electronics company (it took them a couple of decades to realise this mind). Microsoft on the other hand has always been business and developer focused. The bits which made Microsoft strong were the openness of their systems, compatability and relative ease of development and deployment with low entry costs which created a big third party infrastructure.

    The Apple model doesn't work for business customers because businesses need the flexibility to tweak, customise and innovate to stay ahead of the competition, and they need volume-based administration, security and management specific to the business needs to keep those systems running. When Microsoft tries to apply consumer logic to businesses and to wall-in users or programmers, more often than not their products fail.

    1. Mr Anonymous

      "Why is Microsoft aping Apple? "

      As always, follow the money, in this case 30% of everybody else's work.

    2. HollyHopDrive

      "The bits which made Microsoft strong were the openness of their systems, compatability and relative ease of development"

      Sorry, open? Yes, they were real nice to Novell and the samba project. Oh, and Borland, Lotus, etc. They were never nice unless you used their tools. Having killed off most of the big players (on the desktop) this is the next push to total control.

      1. Saul Dobney

        I don't mean open as in open source or open as in friendly, but open as in opposite to 'closed' or 'walled-in' in that you could dig around the innards and tinker and make things work. Want a different graphics card, load in a new driver and away you go. Want to automate some Excel, tinker in the back with VBA. Not pretty (and often not secure) but it allowed for a lot of mix-and-match hardware and a lot of custom in-house programs and scripts to get things bolted together.

    3. Goat Jam

      "Why is Microsoft aping Apple? (badly)

      MS are the IT industry equivalent of pacific island cargo cultists. They try to mimic the things that wash up on their shores without comprehending anything about what they are attempting to copy.

      It's fun to watch them though.

  4. codeusirae

    Microsoft happy with the “appification” of Windows?

    "This is where ISVs will find themselves temporarily stranded between the old world of desktop .exe install and the new world of apps: .. that's where Microsoft has been trying to herd us all for a year now".

    I would have thought that Microsoft is happy to herd the ISVs on, but only after Microsofts own offering are firmly entrenched in the market place.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Android

    Sounds like yet another reason to move to Android.

  6. John Sanders

    It works like this...

    MS has grown big, it has eaten into both small and big ISVs, they have the resources and know-how to kill entire industries if they focus their attention to, and the inclination to.

    MS has grown big because it let people do what they wanted with the platform (more or less), so it allowed the spawn of the largest ecosystem of software and hardware the IT industry has ever had. They killed most if not all the big players who owned the industry before them.

    As everybody points out MS's main bacon is business, essentially AD + Exchange + Windows client, they have such a grip on the market with this combo that they can afford poking a finger on their customers and they ask for more. People is just used to windows and the windows way of thinking.

    The only part of the whole ecosystem MS doesn't control completely is 3rd party applications, any vendor with sufficient "push" like google, mozilla can come and build something that runs on windows better than a windows component ie: chrome, firefox.

    Suddenly all this work of producing a cohesive end-to-end business environment (or one that MS can control) is gone. You do not need IE anymore, loses the grip on the most desirable tech ever... the internet.

    How do they prevent this? well, Apple had a nice idea with their wallet garden, and a brilliant implementation: Their APP store, if they were to produce one for Windows, they can A) close the door to 3rd parties disrupting their environment, b) get even more money c) Control the main or universal windows communication mecanism, your windows screen to push MS messages, ads, etc. d) offer to the windows-addicted masses even more control over the application delivery mecanisms, eventualy disabling the ability of the user to install software locally if not via the windows app store, esentially reducing the likelyhood of getting viruses or unsactioned apps.

    Resuming, this is all part of a 10 year plan to transform the windows ecosystem into something were no-one else but Microsoft can tell what to run where and how much you have to pay.

    If you're an ISV and want to play ball on Windows, you complay and pay your share to MS, if your app proves to be popular, or you discover a profitability niche, Microsoft will have that information on their database, and who knows they could even use it to their advantage.

    People, the PC platform is only good if open, if turned into a walled garden the PC is nothing more than a remote terminal, a sort of distributed mainframe always dependant on the mothership.

    And the reason this is happening is because MS as a business runs on what Gates and Ballmer learn during the 80's if you let competition thrive eventually you wither away because somebody else will come with the next best thing.

    You have to realise that there are a lot of penguins out there, some are very clumsy, some are doing nice tricks, they are evolving at a fast rabid pace, most of the time for free (It has a cost I know), eventually one of them will become popular, and we do not want people to discover that it is good enough.

    1. itzman

      Re: It works like this...

      that doers not compute.

      They are killing off their own penguin competition.

      For small apps, its getting to the stage where a systems house will say 'windows based app, $500 a month and most of that goes to Redmond..

      ..or have our penguin badged version that runs faster, crashes less and its only $200 a month which goes to us to keep it running.

    2. Trixr

      Re: It works like this...

      Thank god for a proper comment without the rabid fanboism from the Linux contingent (yeah, yeah, I run Mint on my home desktop and am a RHCE).

      That's the thing, though - in an enterprise environment, there really is no replacement for AD + Exchange + desktop management.

      The big thing in the enterprise is managing thousands of desktops and thousands of user accounts accessing hundreds of resources - mailboxes, files, devices, apps, etc etc. How do you manage that in Linux-land for the typical userbase?

      Sure, for less than a hundred users, baking your own in Linux-land may well make better sense now. But I don't see it for the big enterprises, unless they have extremely minimal software requirements.

  7. mmeier

    Q; Who really uses a custom programmed APP? What is the benefit on Win/x86 of those things outside say weather and messenger?

    Custom jobs are more likely either "classic application" or even "Java based" (to get MacOS, Unix and that 1.x percent thingy(1)) with Webapplications thrown in for added variety.

    (1) Assuming you find a Fosstard willing to pay for software

    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
      Facepalm

      > Who really uses a custom programmed APP?

      How was life in the Bundeswehr, mmeier from mmicrosoft?

      Welcome to the messy area of civilian apps.

      1. mmeier

        Oh, was a nice time back in 1987/89 (2 years, Lance Corporal / Stabsunteroffizier as an exit rang). Reserve callups post cold war where less and less interesting and then came to an end. I do miss Reforger.

        Still you are further off target than the average GI at 350 meters. A lot further. Never worked for MS, haven't used their languages in a decade.

    2. M Gale

      Assuming you find a Fosstard willing to pay for software

      Change the record. It's getting so old it's stststststarting to skiskiskiskip.

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

    3. James O'Shea

      "Q; Who really uses a custom programmed APP? What is the benefit on Win/x86 of those things outside say weather and messenger?"

      People like my company do. We make our living doing support, ranging from individuals to medium-to-large businesses. We have little custom apps on smartphones and laptops to do things like call ticket management, so that our remote techs (and some of our techs are so remote that they're not even in the same country) can get job info, and report in, and well, get paid for doing the job. We have (considerably) more than one app 'cause we have different sorts of techs, who do different sorts of jobs. No, one size does not fit all. Putting our stuff onto Android and Apple phones, and onto Mac and Windows 7 desktops/laptops, depending on the exact nature of the app, is trivial. Making them work with MetroSexual ain't so simple, and frankly we can't be arsed to try. At one point, back when Windows phones actually had significant marketshare and Microsoft didn't go out of their way to screw with us, we had actually standardized on Windows phones. Then came WinPhone 6.5, and 7, and 8... and we tossed 'em and went with Apples and Androids. _It was easier, faster, and above all *cheaper* to build iOS *and* Android apps than to fap around with WinPhone 8._ And, besides, starting with WinPhone 7 most of the techs hated Windows Phone, anyway, and were screaming at management about the problems they were having in the field.

      You have to know it's bad when an _Apple_ solution is the _cheap_ solution.

      1. mmeier

        Apps on Smartphones is okay. I can understand those for some jobs (other can be done with a Webpage) if you use smartphones for remote data entry(1). But that was not discussed, the question was Win/x86.

        And while I am a BIG Win8 fan, I still can not see the benefit of apps on Win8/x86. They do not start that much faster than an application, they offer no benefits for anything remotely complex.

        As for "putting stuff on x platforms is trivial": How do you handle the UI? Logic can be done, can be shifted to the backend on a server etc. But UI is the big killer even then. And if you can't shift the logic it gets worse since Android and iOS do not share a common language and Google "going cheap" (Dalvic) does not help either (A full JRE would have been a better choice IMHO)

        (1) I admit I won't. A 10'' Atom based Windows unit, even a slow Q550 is way easier to program and use.

    4. JEDIDIAH
      Linux

      > Q; Who really uses a custom programmed APP?

      This is Microsoft's bread and butter. People don't run Windows because of the stupid word processor. They run Windows because of all of the obscure little apps you've never heard of. Some of these might not even be targeted for the current version of monopolyware.

      ...and plenty of companies use customized and custom software.

      1. mmeier

        Custom APPLICATIONS are my "bread and butter" for the last 25 years and 5 operating systems. But those are not the point since:

        They are installed as they have been for the last 15 years and do not need "sideloading"

        They are not Modern UI programs anyway

        The article deals with Apps based on the Modern UI that can only be delivered by the Store or the "Sideloading". A concept that until Oktober 2012 did not exist on Windows. So the question remains who uses THOSE in a business environment

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    control freaks..

    one of the reasons people hate TIFKAM is because it imposes a control freak business model.

    so what is Microsoft doing? locking it down even tighter by the sounds of it.

    One can only hope this is a sign they want to kill it off / diminish the popularity to the point where nobody is using it and they can safely kill it off without anybody complaining too much (like the Vista Gadgets..) otherwise it's just another utterly clueless move.

    1. mmeier

      Re: control freaks..

      Actually the only people really hating "Modern UI" where the software equivalent to Taliban. The rest have been served lies and lousy tests by "quality journalists" like iHeise and, once given the chance to really test the UI. had options between: "Works as good as W7" to "great".

      I am currently convincing our "data security officer" to set up proper sandbag bunkers and checkpoints on the building entries in case a Gnuliban with Dynamite sticks(1) tries to blow up the building screaming "Stallman is great"

      (1) Must be dynamite since it is "open source" unlike say Semtex

      1. M Gale

        Re: control freaks..

        once given the chance to really test the UI. had options between: "Works as good as W7" to "great".

        I know this is only anecdotal, but the only person I've found who liked the Metro thing, was someone who had never, ever had a computer before. This was their first PC. A laptop if you must know. He asked me what I could possibly dislike about the phone interface that comes up when you hit the TIFKAM Windows button. No, no I hadn't walked in the room, saw the godawful squares and had a Pavlovian reaction, before you start on that. Just like yes, yes I really do pay for my software, despite having various Linux partitions dotted around the place and an extreme dislike of shitty DRM like Steam or WGA.

        After bringing my own, six year old, crusty old AMD64 laptop around one time, and after a few "but can you do thi... oh, yes you can" comments, he had to concede that there is absolutely nothing he wants to do with his machine that I can't do better.

  9. Simon Harris
    Facepalm

    Gun...

    Foot...

    BANG!

  10. Nuke
    FAIL

    Sounds a Case of Arses and Elbows

    FTFA :- "Side-load license keys only come in packs of 100, and they're not transferrable........ Microsoft's Michael Niehaus agreed that this isn't an ideal state of affairs. “That's certainly something that we need to fix. We've been studying for future updates to this process"

    FFS, how much "study" does it need to remove a restriction of 100 ? Niehaus's comment unwittingly reveals frustration with his own company. The fact is that MS is a company of arses and elbows in a state of serious disconnection. Mostly arses.

    1. J__M__M

      Re: Sounds a Case of Arses and Elbows

      Niehaus's comment unwittingly reveals frustration with his own company...

      There was nothing unwitting about it.

  11. xmsdave
    Facepalm

    Frozen out

    MSFT may be trying to freeze out small ISV's, but they will just freeze themselves out as vendors simply produce applications that are consumable via a browser. SaaS solutions aren't being produced on the Azure platform, they are running on AWS or others, so how do MSFT expect to get back into the stack? Given how far behind MSFT are here, they need to be more open and reduce the barrier to adoption, not increase it.

  12. Atonnis

    TIFKAM?

    TIFKAM? Really? Haven't you guys grown up at all yet and gotten past that childish acronym? The rest of the world just still call it Metro or not as they feel like it.

    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
      Trollface

      Re: TIFKAM?

      But "Metro or not as they feel like it" does not really roll as easily off the tongue as TIFKAM.

    2. alisonken1
      Flame

      Re: TIFKAM?

      In my neck of the woods, "Metro" is the bus you ride around town on, not your computer desktop.

      1. mmeier

        Re: TIFKAM?

        And here Metro is the equivalent to WallMart owning various shopping centers and chains (food, electronics etc).

        Maybe for those reasons - the UI is called MODERN not Metro

    3. Michael Habel

      Re: TIFKAM?

      And the rest or your "World" would be in violation. As the German METRO AG http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_AG apparently claim ownership of the Word. Thus why we call it T-he I-nterface F-ormally K-nown A-s M-etro. Or just TIFKAM for short....

  13. Atonnis

    Hang On.....

    Hold up there...is this article talking about Windows 8/8.1 or Windows RT?

    I haven't had any problem installing anything on Windows 8 or 8.1 from whatever source I choose, that includes on the company PCs here that have it.

    1. Brian Miller

      Re: Hang On.....

      They aren't preventing the software to be loaded, but what GUI APIs it can use. The application that loads the old way isn't allowed to be an "app." If you want your software to use the new GUI, then it has to be an "app" and play in the Microsoft system. If you don't care about the new GUI, then none of this matters.

      1. Michael Habel

        Re: Hang On.....

        Which then begs the question why should it matter at all? ...On the PC that is?

    2. mmeier

      Re: Hang On.....

      In common "Register" fashion the article lumps together

      Win/RT

      Win8/x86

      Applications

      Apps

      to satisfy the Pawlow Reflexes of the Fosstards. When cut appart it becomes

      Win8/x86 Applications - Install as usual

      Win8/Modern Apps - Either use the shop or pay for the extra (maybe unneeded) licences for side loading

      Win/RT - I do not care

  14. lunatik96

    Surprise? NOT

    So a corp that has made it their business model to abuse their monopoly suddenly wants you to pay to install software on their OS? HAHAHA. This is worse than COSTO or Sam's charging you to shop at their "WAREHOUSE". I guess M$ thinks their monopoly is so strong that they don't care.

    Linux CAN do everything MS can and more. This IS the TIME to switch. I use Linux on ALL my boxes, although sometimes in VirtualBox. I even had one computer that had a legal windows license that wouldn't load windows, yet Linux installed quickly w/o any problems. MicroSucks knows the desktop is fading and their main business is enterprise environments. Normally I say Good Luck with that, but this time merely you reap what you sow.

    1. mmeier

      Re: Surprise? NOT

      Can Linux do (reliably, no matter what distribution, any kernel 4 years and younger) do:

      Voice recognition

      Handwriting recognition

      Current generation games of all types

      Support for common small business software like sage KHK

      ...

      If not - It can not do everything Windows can do

      1. JEDIDIAH
        Linux

        Re: Surprise? NOT

        > Can Linux do (reliably, no matter what distribution, any kernel 4 years and younger) do:

        >

        > Voice recognition

        >

        > Handwriting recognition

        ...probably does it better than Microsoft products considering what platform is the mobile market leader.

        Although even on the desktop, that's all down to 3rd party products anyways. So you're basically crowing over the fact that Microsoft is the defacto standard. Says squat about the actual OS.

        1. mmeier

          Re: Surprise? NOT

          Voice and HWR are part of MS Windows (HWR since XP, Voice since either Vista or Win7). And unlike the stuff on iOS and Android (that is actually based on Dragons engine) it works totally off-line. Add ons like "Dragon Natural" offer some nice specialities but the integrated stuff works fine for speech

          And having compared the HWR in Android (Note) to the one in Windows: Nope, Android does not even come close in capabilities.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Surprise? NOT

      Too late! As a precaution, Microsoft came up with UEFI Secure boot so nobody will go astray. I'm afraid this will only make the PC platform even less appealing thus accelerating its death.

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