back to article IT bods: Windows XP, we WON'T leave you. Migrate? Chuh! As if...

It's not going to be easy to pry open the death grip of IT bods on the last copies of Windows XP, according to Spiceworks, whose survey had a whopping 33 per cent of tech professionals planning to keep the OS on at least one device after its end of life. The social business network for IT pros, much beloved of sysadmins, …

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      1. tabman

        Re: I believe it

        You don't have to wait for Windows 8.2. There are a myriad of applications (some free and some cost money - about $5 or £3) that will bring you to the desktop from boot. You never have to use TIFKAM. It is all there on the start menu.

    1. Damonjohn

      Re: I believe it

      "What a lot of industry pundits don't mention when breathlessly talking about XP's demise is the sheer amount of dependencies that XP and its included components (IE 6, et al) have in large organizations. The XP-to-7-or-8 transition is even more painful from the NT-to-XP "

      Already have virtualized WindowsXP images for several 100 clients. Physical units requiring that WindowsXP remain are separated by network layers.

      WindowsXP as also Windows Server 2003 will be about for as long as these applications are used to do work for the corporation needing the underlying operating systems.

      Lining Microsoft pockets with more money is not the reason CFOs of corporations exist, unless they enjoy losing their positions.

  1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

    Businesses may draw another conclusion

    >PCs on Windows XP need to understand that they will put their networks and data at high and increasing risk.

    They may decide that having Windows on desktop machines at-all is putting their networks and data at risk.

    If we are supposed to do everything on the web with Office365 - exactly why do i need a full OS on every desktop, all able to run any programs/attachments/malware they like and all with access to my network?

    1. Craigness

      Re: Businesses may draw another conclusion

      Chromebooks all round!

    2. Christian Berger

      Re: Businesses may draw another conclusion

      ... or if they are smart, they'll switch to Linux and wine plus a few dedicated Windows XP virtual machines which are in their own separate VLAN with no Internet access for the legacy stuff that won't work on wine.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Keep one asset with XP...

    In company especially, it's very understandable to keep some machines with XP in the scenario where you have one legacy software on it. That software doesn't run on Windows 7. Now, to upgrade the software to a version that's compatible with Win 7 require buying a software upgrade of several thousand dollars. Similarly, some legacy software that are node-locked to old computers, which computers won't run Windows 7 (old computer, little memory, but has been doing the job for 10+ years). So you see why XP is there to stay on some computers.

    1. Dan Paul

      Re: Keep one asset with XP...

      Has anyone ever tried XP compatability mode?

      1. peter_dtm
        FAIL

        Re: Keep one asset with XP...Has anyone ever tried XP compatability mode?

        and pray do say - what happens after support has ceased ? That's right one massive hole in your security if you allow it access to t'internet

        Not to mention XP mode is a pile of kludge compared to VM palyer or workstation (player licence some €70 -ish so compared to a windows licence dirt cheap)

      2. Roland6 Silver badge

        Re: Keep one asset with XP...

        >Has anyone ever tried XP compatability mode?

        But XP compatibility mode is just an XP VM tied to a Win7 machine and is subject to exactly the same end of support dates as 'normal' XP...

        1. Nick Ryan Silver badge

          Re: Keep one asset with XP...

          "But XP compatibility mode is just an XP VM tied to a Win7 machine and is subject to exactly the same end of support dates as 'normal' XP..."

          You may be confusing things... when you right click and run an application you can run it in "XP Compatibility Mode". In this execution environment security settings are tweaked and the application can get away with doing dumb things that while it shouldn't do, XP allowed anyway. e.g. admin level access to everything with no UAC prompts, mixing program files and data files, and so on.

          "XP Mode" is the XP Virtual Machine that is available for users of Windows 7 Professional (and Enterprise).

          1. Michael Habel
            Stop

            Re: Keep one asset with XP...

            "XP Mode" is the XP Virtual Machine that is available for users of Windows 7 Professional (and Enterprise).

            It is also worth noting that you need a Core2Duo, or some AMD equivalent Processor with Virtual Tech built in to actually make proper use of it. Needless to say that, not every Core2Duo actually had / has this "Tech" built-in....

      3. M Gale

        Re: Keep one asset with XP...

        Has anyone ever tried XP compatability mode?

        Yes.

        It isn't.

    2. Goat Jam
      Paris Hilton

      Re: Keep one asset with XP...

      "Now, to upgrade the software to a version that's compatible with Win 7 require buying a software upgrade of several thousand dollars"

      You don't actually work in IT do you?

      If you do and "several thousand dollars" is all that is stopping you from moving off XP then I can only imagine you are doing the IT work for the local fish and chip vendor or something.

      "Similarly, some legacy software that are node-locked to old computers [...] has been doing the job for 10+ years"

      Good lord, if you have software that is node locked to a 10 year old computer and use that as a reason to not upgrade from XP then what pray tell is your DR plan for when that 10+ year old PC goes titsup?

      There are of course some valid reasons to not move from XP, but a few thousand bucks and keeping your fingers crossed that an antique PC doesn't cark it tomorrow are not.

      Paris, because she may not be very good at IT but at least she looks good doing it.

      1. Paul Crawford Silver badge

        @Goat Jam

        While I can't speak for the AC above, my own reasons for sticking with "old software" vary, in some cases the cost is sometimes just not worth it when it is hardly used and/or not business critical.

        But more often it is not the "few thousand" for a new copy/license, it is the years of work and business processes that are disrupted by the new version being different in subtle through to bloody annoying ways. That can cost WAY more than the new version would.

        Also the node-locking may not be tied to the physical machine, more likely it is a parallel port dongle on an XP box that serves the software (like one of my CAD packages). A new PC with an additional parallel port card may solve hardware failures with much less disruption than a complete change, but moving from W2k/XP could be far more difficult.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: @Paul Crawford

          "Also the node-locking may not be tied to the physical machine, more likely it is a parallel port dongle on an XP box that serves the software"

          Or worse, the license for said software (from a now defunct company) is tied to the MAC of the network card in said computer. Seen any recent Dell Optiplexes with ISA slots in them? Nope, me neither...

          1. Paul Crawford Silver badge

            Re: @Paul Crawford AC 14:28

            "tied to the MAC of the network card in said computer"

            In that case a VM of XP might be your saving, as you can then assign a MAC address matching the original card to it. Of course, if it used other hardware factors (e.g. C: drive serial number, etc) that may not work, but it is well worth trying.

            1. Nick Ryan Silver badge

              Re: @Paul Crawford AC 14:28

              I think in a VM (VMWare anyway) you're also able to set the serial number of the hard drive. This does get a little confusing because the serial number is often confused with the volume number. The volume ID is always available as it's added by Windows, the hard drive serial number is a different matter as it's an optional part of the specification.

    3. Tom 13

      Re: Keep one asset with XP...

      That was exactly the scenario at one place where I worked. Even when the rest of the company was on XP SP3 there was one Windows 98 machine in the HR office that still connected to the network. It had the software on it that housed the database of employee badge data. For some reason the CIO was never able to prise the $5000 from the budget to upgrade the software to something that would run on XP. Finally it got virtualized because we'd scraped together too many "one last desperate attempt" to keep the damn thing running. It wouldn't surprise me if it's still running that way. Oh, and yes, after they spent the $5000 on the software they were probably going to have to spend another $20,000 to have an employee re-write some MS Access based code that fed the data into a company intranet page. Yes, getting RIFFed there was a huge blessing.

  3. bpfh
    Holmes

    Build somthing that people want, and they will flock to buy it...

    Build somthing they don't and they wont...

  4. Mike Flex

    Why should we be in a rush to move off XP?

    Some of us only moved to XP in summer 2010, when extended support for Win 2000 ended. That's not even 4 years use out of XP.

    1. c:\boot.ini

      Why should we be in a rush to move off XP?

      Because your company decided to go for software from a monopolist that squeezes ever more cash out of you for the same "basic computing" functionality your company uses by having you pay multiple times (client OS, server OS, server software, CALS) and forcing ever-changing API's and UI's down your throat.

      You are tied to their API's/UI's that change with every Windows release, imagine, had you moved to Linux in 2001, you could have had the same major gnome version to this day, fully patched, and kept it for a few more years - remember, you choose the ui you want to use - not redhat/suse/ubuntu/oracle.

    2. Pirate Dave Silver badge
      Pirate

      Re: Win 2000

      Are you telling me I need to upgrade my Windows 2000 machines? Seriously...? Oh, all right, I'll get to it one day...

      Sadly, I actually do have 2 or 3 Win2k servers still around. The WINS server (ouch), and the box running HP Top Tools for Hubs and Switches (hey, HP4000 switches run FORFUCKINGEVER), and the third box that monitors various sensors, runs an ancient copy of NetCrunch, and is a syslog server. They really all do need to go to the scrap heap.

      Glad that Server2003 still has a long life ahead of it, or I'd be in trouble... Oh, wait...

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Just try budging the doctors...

    Between me (aging accident prone fart) and the kids in the past three months I've been perched beside PCs in several medical practices and hospitals. And every single one was clearly running XP (default PlaySkool theme and screensaver), and equally clearly networked. So either their networks are wonderfully firewalled and an IT squad from Tom Clancy's wettest dream guards them ("the damaged ceiling tile? well Bob was just plugging in his WLAN router from home when a ninja pulled him up through it..."), or 4Chan will be changing my next prostate check into a gender reassignment.

    1. ItsNotMe

      Re: Just try budging the doctors...

      Yep. There are plenty of reasons NOT to go to Win 7 or 8.x....namely...legacy applications that won't run on the newer OSes.

      My university/medical research center/hospital has dozens of them. Most do not ever connect to the Internet...so no good reason whatsoever to change.

      1. Goat Jam

        Re: Just try budging the doctors...

        "Yep. There are plenty of reasons NOT to go to Win 7 or 8.x....namely...legacy applications that won't run on the newer OSes."

        I agree, if you're not connected to a network then there is no urgent need to upgrade such PC's, especially if they are single purposed (to the legacy app).

        However, this is going to become increasingly difficult to manage as the years go by if the same PC is being used for non legacy stuff as well, non-legacy stuff that may not support XP at some point in the future.

        Ironically, it might be that Linux and Wine may become one of the best ways to support some legacy Windows stuff. Yes, wine can be a total pita to tweak to get an application working properly but once it is done once then it is easily replicated and can be completely stable. Given that you can get IE6 working under wine pretty easily then this might become an easy way to manage legacy crap safely.

  6. This post has been deleted by its author

  7. willi0000000
    Black Helicopters

    unnecessary

    the whole "not supporting this anymore and so hackers will be invading" problem could easily be solved if organizations like NSA (they claim to be the very best at this computer stuff) would do some work that actually improves national security.

    isn't it an issue of national security if all these XP devices running critical business, manufacturing and infrastructure applications are vulnerable to attack? if they can bother to track my metadata (which is so dull that it might be outlawed as an opiate) they can surely run interference for such an important sector of the economy. perhaps they aren't as good at important things?

    [hey NSA guys, what about it? i know you're listening]

    1. Captain DaFt

      Re: unnecessary

      Sorry, but the NSA only taps into computers.

      If you want to improve your computer's security against intrusion, contact...

      Hm, there doesn't seem to be a US agency for that... I wonder why?

    2. Tom 13

      Re: unnecessary

      They tried that once and got bitch slapped for it. So they stay away from it now.

  8. WatAWorld

    When creating future surveys remember that "one copy" is meaningless

    When creating future surveys remember that answers to questions about "one copy" of something are meaningless.

    Yes we'll have a copy. On a machine in the testing lab, just in case we ever need it.

    Meaningful questions would be:

    1. Will you have a server or workstation running WHATEVER in any of your non-production (testing/educational/experimental/training) environments?

    2. Will you have a server running WHATEVER in any of your production (non-testing/non-educational/non-experimental/non-training) environments?

    3. Will you have a workstation running WHATEVER in your mainstream production environment?

    -- and then if you want more precision --

    4. Will you support WHATEVER on any machine in your production environment?

    5. Will you only support WHATEVER on the production machines of a small number of politically powerful users?

    6. Will you only support WHATEVER on production machines in non-critical applications isolated from your main business network?

  9. WatAWorld

    Don't connect to the internet, but do you have USB sockets or drives for removable disks?

    Your XP computer might not connect directly to the internet, but does it have a USB socket, or diskette, CD, DVD or blu-ray drive?

    Currently these other paths are being used to infect non-internet connected diplomatic and 'industrial command and control systems', and there is no reason to believe that they won't be used to infect XP systems in at least in 'attractive targets'.

    It is even possible to migrate data off of these non-internet connected systems. The Israelis and Americans did it to the Iranian nuclear program, so it is feasible and who knows how often it has happened elsewhere.

    Also, if you have an internet connected machine on the same network as your XP machines (whether or not it is running an up-to-date operating system and antivirus) it could be used as an entry point to any connected XP machines. One trojan, one stupid mistake, on that internet connected machine and it could quietly violate however many hundred XP machines are connected to it.

    Is your business and that application an attractive target?

    1. Would anyone be able to profit from the disruption of that application, directly or via blackmail?

    2. Would anyone be able to profit from knowledge of data in that application, directly or via blackmail?

    And there are doubtless other ways to be a high value target.

    So if you're going to keep XP in your production environment I suggest you disable the drives for removable media and disable the USB sockets and make sure that no computer on the network with the XP machine have internet access.

  10. Danvighar

    Keeping my VM, will make it "offline" when support dies.

  11. N2

    Meanwhile...

    A brand new laptop; requires a hard reset from sleep, runs dog slow & generally misbehaves at every opportunity.

    If this is progress then I want none of it & XP stays, thank you.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Meanwhile...

      Where did you buy this heap of junk from?

      Don't be put off by your experience, modern laptops are mostly improved considerably over their aging XP generation relatives (apart from the 1990s 768p screens still promoted to the unwary).

      Best bet is to ask someone with a little technical know how before you buy your next PC.

      1. N2

        Re: Meanwhile...

        Q. Where did you buy this heap of junk from? A = I didnt, it was provided to my brother in law, unfortunately he has to tollerate this junk to earn a living.

        Quote "modern laptops are mostly improved considerably" = It was brand new as of 1 week ago, Win 7 64bit 1Gb HDD with 8Gb memory, the 'Windows Experience' was 5.9 but we experienced nothing but frustration but I suppose its a bit dated now.

        Quote "Best bet is to ask someone with a little technical know how before you buy your next PC." = Dont worry, I wont. After 30+ years in IT PCs & laptops are generally a disappointment. I have every expectation that my elderly Mac Pro will continue to work exactly how I do for a good few years yet before you bleat about price I got it second hand in as new condition & before you bleat about Mac Tards I run XP in a VM to provide a perfect solution for me. I will pass on your comment to the IT dpet who set it up, Im sure they will be thrilled.

  12. Mr. A

    What?

    Seriously, keep XP?! In Enterprise?? You should be fired for incompetence.

    1. c:\boot.ini
      Boffin

      Re: What?

      Seriously, keep Windows?! In Enterprise?? You should be fired for incompetence.

      Fixed that for ya!

  13. AnoniMouse

    Keeping the IT industry in the manner to which it has become accustomed

    It's not just the pain of updating the OS. It's the forced need to replace familiar applications that no longer execute on the new version of the OS and then how to extract valuable data created by those (now unusable) applications.

    IT industry to business: you'll have to replace your entire IT estate.

    Business: Why, what's the benefit to my business?

    IT industry: If you don't you won't be supported and will be vulnerable to scarey consequences.

    The built-in obsolescence routinely practised by IT vendors as a means of prepetuating revenues is highly questionable and condemns the whole IT industry to expend FAR to much of its resources replacing old with new, with very little identifiable user or business benefit and plenty of downsides.

    If practised by organisations of a different type this might be termed extortion or a protection racket.

    1. N2

      Re: Keeping the IT industry in the manner to which it has become accustomed

      Agree entirely,

      Ive just witnessed my brother-in-law typing a fairly extensive e-mail to his support department following the 'upgrade' to Windows 7 (Win 8 wont run any of their software) on a well specified Dell laptop. The fairly meaningless 'Windows Experience' is 5.9 however the laptop runs like a slug & every time he opens the lid it crashes from sleep requiring a hard restart to name a few 'issues' or defects as I prefer to call them.

      To say he & I were dismayed is an understatement & his e-mail concluded with "I will call in tomorrow & collect my old laptop as I require something that works"

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Keeping the IT industry in the manner to which it has become accustomed

        Sounds to me like Dells old habit of releasing buggy drivers then not fixing them when Windows upgrades become less tolerant for security whatever reasons.

        What software doesn't work with 8 that worked with 7? (I've not discovered any yet so curious).

  14. UnauthorisedAccess
    Joke

    SteamOS

    I wonder if I can convince the the developers need this new Debian based distro for development.

  15. J.G.Harston Silver badge

    FUD

    This is just like the change to Euro-harmonized mains cable colours. It doesn't mean that everything in the old colours is suddenly going to stop working on day zero.

    1. Craigness

      Re: FUD

      There could be attack methods which have been held in reserve, to be used after support ends. And any updates to Vista or 7 can be reverse engineered to reveal possible exploits for XP. The computer will still work but you won't want to use it online.

  16. Roland6 Silver badge

    Why wouldn't an IT Pro or Sysadmin keep a copy of XP?

    Spiceworks "found that 76 per cent of them were still running the operating system on some devices today and 36 per cent would be keeping at least one copy around."

    Sorry am I missing something?

    Spiceworks audience is IT pro's and sysadmin's. People who have learnt that it is advisable to keep an end user system (such as XP) available for cross checking stuff between new and old systems and for those occasions when the business needs to runs an old spreadsheet that does something weird in the new version of Office etc..

    Plus it is handy to have a system that can actually read the files in all those old archives - Remember many have been using MS products since the 1980's...

  17. Hotears

    Embedded? Not so simple.

    On the production floor I have a few million pounds, dollars, or euros worth of machinery, with some of the embedded machines running XP. It has custom hardware and drivers. Basically, components go in on one end, earnings comes out the other. Am I going to turn it off?

    Not likely. At this point it's on its own network, with tight access controls. That's all I can do.

    How heavy is your remaining XP box? Mine's about 20 tonnes.

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  19. Bladeforce

    GET AWAY FROM MICROSOFT...

    MOST COMPANIES CAN DO IT TODAY AND SAVE LOTS OF MONEY! THINK LONG TERM PEOPLE INSTEAD OF WHINING, YOU GOT YOURSELF TRAPPED IN THE MICROSOFT TAX NOW GROW A PAIR AND GET YOURSELF OUT!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: GET AWAY FROM MICROSOFT...

      Watch your caps key, mate! Especially when you use it to type the name of a prominent software vendor located in Redmond.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: GET AWAY FROM MICROSOFT...

        Caps key? Probably he's using a free Linux that never quite mastered the i/o drivers. But it's free, it's not MS and he can not read whole words anyway.

        1. Bladeforce

          Re: GET AWAY FROM MICROSOFT...

          The ones that havent grown a pair are so visible

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