back to article PC makers REALLY need Windows 8.1 to walk on water - but guess what?

An updated Windows 8 from Microsoft will NOT be the "miracle cure" for traditional PC makers in need of a sales and profits injection. And that's according to IT biz analysts Context. This is the second technology distribution channel watcher in a week to warn that Redmond's touch-friendly operating system tweak, namely …

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    1. Alex Rose

      Re: Eadon Has A Point

      "Microsoft are handing the Linux/BSD, whatever, distro producers the golden apple. They have to bite into it."

      Much as I like Linux the sad fact is that they'll spend all their time discussing how deep to bite, what shape to bite and how many times to chew before each going off and doing their own thing and continuing to leave the end-user confused and running back into MS (and to a much lesser degree Apple's) arms.

      1. Jamie Jones Silver badge

        Re: Eadon Has A Point

        Eadon may have a point - but he repeats it 100 bloody times a day, to people who more than know of Linux.

        If Eadon really wanted to make a difference, he'd be trying to talk to end users, not tech people - who are either already onboard, or don't want to be.

        Whichever side of the coin you live on, Eadon is just irritating. He also bangs on about Linux as if it's the only alternative to MS - true irritating fanboism

        "Much as I like Linux the sad fact is that they'll spend all their time discussing how deep to bite, what shape to bite and how many times to chew before each going off and doing their own thing and continuing to leave the end-user confused and running back into MS "

        A shame people don't know much about PCBSD, which - based on FreeBSD - doesn't have all that bullshit you mention.

        1. Jamie Jones Silver badge
          Happy

          Re: Eadon Has A Point

          "A shame people don't know much about PCBSD, which - based on FreeBSD - doesn't have all that bullshit you mention."

          Oops! I've just acted the fanboi too!

    2. Ant Evans
      Unhappy

      Re: Eadon Has A Point

      The time has been ripe for a consumer Linux distro for years. Canonical was that distro, and look what they've gone and done.

      Forget it.

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Coat

    No planned upgrades

    I am not planning to replace or upgrade my Desktop or laptops any time soon. They are all running windows 7 and office 2010 quite happily. The desktop has scanner and photoprinters attached and photoshop installed and can probably handle anything else one can throw at it for the foreseeable future. The only possible problem I may have is a windows XP laptop that does not seem to like windows 7 for some reason (maybe a driver problem).

    IMHO what is really needed are some 'killer apps' to make the platform more useful. Unless one is an avid gamer, once Office and a few utilities are installed then there is not much else available. There is not even a 'consumer' accounts program since Quicken left and MS killed Money.

    Sadly Windows 8 is a disaster and Linux is not user friendly enough to become mainstream unless one is tech savvy.

    1. WatAWorld

      Re: No planned upgrades

      Good point.

      Think about it. Why would a killer app make you replace your hardware?

      The normal procedure is to install the new app on the old hardware, unless the new app requires killer hardware.

      And the lack of some new killer hardware innovation is the problem.

      Hardware makers aren't even trying.

      They're still shipping PCs and laptops with fans, USB2, and wired monitors and keyboards.

      Not that I'm saying those are big enough innovations to make me junk a PC that works well, but the standards and chips for those innovations have been out for a couple of years.

      I think they top guys, the top innovators, are focused on the tablets and phones.

      1. mmeier

        Re: No planned upgrades

        If you want no fans you either go low power on notebooks (likely an Atom) or you go with MASSIV passiv cooling for desktops. And the trend goes towards smaller desktops.

        A decently powerful notebook/convertible will need fans. Small and resonably silent ones but fans. ARM does not cut it performance wise and Atom while better is not useable past Office work. Innovation in PC is coming. Stuff like the new Haswell units look very promising endurance and weight wise.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Vista - pArt deUx

    "8.1 might provide a lift but it is no miracle cure ...because the sales downturn is due to the economy".

    Oh really? And it has nothing to do with being so corporate that you can't see how the average user has become much more technically literate than the last time you foisted Vista on them. At the very least people read more reviews before buying now...

  3. Michael Habel
    Big Brother

    Let's see

    Windows Vista - Questionable FAIL! (I thought it was ok. though I never had to move masive amounts of Data 'round while using it.)

    WinPhone 7

    WinPhone 8 - GUI is ugly as sin might be good otherwise. Has no useres virtualy has no Store.

    Windows 8 - MicroSoft F*@#'ed up BIG TIME!

    Windows 8.1 - See above!

    XBONE - i.e. The FAILBOX! "It ONLY spys on you!"

    So with the huge amount of success behind him. Just why is the Monkyboi still allowed to run this Once great Corporation?

    1. WatAWorld

      Ford Blames Poor Sales On Lousy BP Petrol

      Ford Blames Poor Auto Sales On Lousy BP Petrol.

      GM Blames Dismal Car Sales On New Country Road Signs.

      The computers aren't selling because of what they are.

      Nobody makes anyone run Windows 8. If Windows 8 were the problem it would be an MS problem, not an ASUS, Dell, Apple, HP problem.

      Dell, poor sales, allows you to get your PC or laptop with Windows 7 as an option when ordering off the web (not just by phone).

      1. mmeier

        Re: Ford Blames Poor Sales On Lousy BP Petrol

        Let's face it no person with half a brain is currently buying a new notebook / netbook / tablet pc unless absolutely forced to (old unit dead/stolen/end of leasing). Intel has announced in Q1 that we will see Haswell and Baytrail units in the mass market late Q3/Q4 and those offer quite a few benefits like faster build in graphics (both), better SSD/RAM support (Baytrail), better suspend modes and throtteling (both), less power consumption (both). And from the first tests with the Sony Vaio Duo13 - Haswell delivers.

        So why buy yesterdays technology? That is like buying the last generation car without say anti locking breaks etc. when the next gen model WITH that stuff comes out two month from now. The car salesman may like the deal(1) but I don't do the deal.

        (1) A Peugeot guy sure tried in 1997 - I bought a nice Fiat at a competitor instead

  4. Tom 35

    PC Makers thrown under bus

    MS want to be Apple.

    They want to sell phones and tablets.

    They think they can use desktops / laptops to make people want an MS phone / tablet.

    They think not-metro is the way to do it.

    People say they don't like it. Not going to buy it. Not-Metro sucks.

    MS: We have to fix this... but can't remove not-metro.

    Look more colours.

    Look a start button to replace one of the invisible spots! That's what you asked for! All good now right!

    Look animated backgrounds.. cool right?

    US: It's still got not-metro! it's still shit!

  5. MikeHuk
    FAIL

    It's not the Desktop that's dead it's Win 8 that's dead

    As many have already said the market for PCs are reaching saturation point. I am another who has a 4 year old quad core PC running Win 7 and Linux mint which is lightning fast and is quite adequate for all my needs and I cannot see myself upgrading any time soon. Win 8 offers me little that I want, I don't need the TIKRAM and its app store(does anybody?), I have proper Windows PROGRAMS, I don't need touch as I have a much more efficient and precise system in a mouse and keyboard. Sure Win 8 boots faster but how many times do I boot in a day and I usually use hibernate anyway. When MS brought out Win 7, I upgraded as it offered me some new useful features but Win 8 and even 8.1 offers me little to make it attractive. Also I hate that checkerboard look on win 8/phone 8.

    I do have an Android Tablet with touch and that is great but that for me is an entirely different platform for different use in addition to my PC not as a replacement.

  6. jellypappa
    Thumb Down

    windows h8te

    installed windows 8 on my mega beast of a pc with 2 x 22" touch screens, it is total pants, uninstalled and went back to 7 after a few months thought i would give it a 2nd go, i was right the first time, so back to 7 took dvd and smashed so i can never be tempted to put that rubbish on any of my machines, ( 5)

    windows 98 is actually better to work with than 8.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: windows h8te

      How long did you use it for and what were the issues that made it "total pants"?

      1. James O'Shea
        Mushroom

        Re: windows h8te

        I used it for nearly two weeks. Among my issues:

        1 UI problem #1: the damn hidden whatever-it-is that pops up on the right side. I had no end of problems getting to the Settings or to the Control Panels. In earlier versions of Windows, or on Macs, or even on Ubuntu Linux, doing similar tasks is trivial.

        2 UI problem #2: finding apps, or programs, or whatever, when in Desktop mode. In earlier versions of Windows, or on Macs, or even Ubuntu Linux, this was trivial. Unless I scattered shortcuts all over the place, locating a particular app was a major pain. Yes, I know, Microsoft wants me to use MetroSexual. No, I prefer not to.

        3 UI problem #3: I didn't (and still don't, and probably won't for a very long time) have a touch screen on my test unit (an ASUS laptop; it came with a 750 GB drive, partitioned into two. I had Win 7 on one and Win 8 on the other.) or on any other desktop or laptop I ever own. MetroSexual is aimed at touch. Yes, it will work without touch. No, it won't work as well.

        4 Startup problem #1: when I installed Win 8, it declined to admit that there was a Windows install on the other partition. I had to dig up the install disc (which I had 'cause I got Win 8 from DreamSpark, and that download was an ISO which I burned to a DVD) and run bootrec. And when that didn't work, I called Microsoft Support... and the bottom-tier CSA couldn't fix it either, though he tried hard and had me let him log into my system remotely. He escalated it to higher-higher, and they were able to get things working. Total time elapsed, including my time before I called MS: seven hours. I have _never_ had an OS install of _any_ OS whatsoever, dating back to my first experiences with desktop computers in the 1970s, which caused so much trouble. Yes, Win 8 would load... but for me to get Win 7 to load I had to play with the damn BIOS, until it got fixed and the nice boot manager I was expecting in the first place became available. Apparently my problem, though rare, was not the first of its kind that the senior MS CSA had seen. _This is a known bug._ It is also completely, utterly, totally, UNACCEPTABLE.

        5 Startup problem #2: the first two times I went back to Win 7 after getting the boot manager to behave, it crashed on getting to the Windows splash screen. I was able to fix this with CHKDSK. _Something_ caused directory errors. Gee. I wonder what could have done that. Note that I had run CHKDSK _before_ installing Win 8 and there were no problems then.. Correlation ain't causation and all that, but it sure seems suspicious...

        6 Usability problem #1: Win 8 insists on installing IE10. IE 10 breaks at least two web apps I use. IE 9, in Win 7, works fine. No, I don't know what breaks. I don't care. They're unusable in Win 8, and will stay unusable until someone (NOT me) either fixes 'em themselves or pays someone else to fix 'em. For various reasons I must use IE on that particular site. Indeed, that site and its requirement to use IE is a major reason why I have a Windows laptop in the first place, I'd be using a Mac instead otherwise.

        7 Usability problem #2: certain older programs (in use since Win2K and the other major reasons why I have a Windows laptop) which worked just fine in Win 7 break on impact with Win 8.

        There were other problems, but this is getting long. I tried to use it. I really did. It annoyed the hell out of me, and I nuked the partition and am very unlikely to ever reinstall Win 8. As Win 8.1 appears to be merely Win 8 SP1, I'll give that a miss as well.

        Win 8 may well work beautifully for others. It stunk up the place around here.

        1. WatAWorld

          So why didn't you just uninstall Windows 8 and install something else?

          So why didn't you just uninstall Windows 8 and install something else?

          Oh, that is what you did.

          That is what any customer would do. Hence, while Windows 8 quality and poor innovation is affecting Windows 8 sales, it isn't affecting PC sales.

          1. James O'Shea

            Re: So why didn't you just uninstall Windows 8 and install something else?

            perhaps you missed the part about how my ASUS shipped with Win 7? I bought the thing last year, _before_ Win 8 shipped, specifically to ensure that I got Win 7. That's one sale which could, arguably, have been made later (my old Toshiba didn't actually die until about April this year, so if I'd waited until then to replace it that would have been... a Win 8 sale on a new machine this year.) and I know quite a few people who purchased new machines last year in August and September to make damn sure that they had new systems which did not run Win 8. And, given the way things are going, as certain items have to be re-written anyway, odds are excellent that they'll be re-written to work on Macs, and my next laptop will be a Mac laptop. Thanks, Microsoft, for breaking those apps in Win 8...

          2. mmeier

            Re: So why didn't you just uninstall Windows 8 and install something else?

            Even assuming one does not like Win8 after trying it with an open mind - why on earth should I pay for Win8 and then not use it?

            DELL/Lenovo/HP all sell without OS if you order by phone. The No Names "choose parts we assemble" trader next door will install what you order anyway.

  7. Tyrion
    Stop

    Many people are making excuses like - it's the economy, lack of touch screen devices, or that the market has suddenly become mature and everyone already has a PC. What a crock of shit. There's only one explanation for a 12% drop ( a record ) in PC sales in Q1 and that's the monstrosity that is Windows 8.

    However unlike many others, I hope Microsoft does continue down this path of fail, because then we might see more mainstream PC makers preinstalling GNU/Linux distros, and that's great for everyone. A PC monopoly like Micro$haft Windows hurts the entire industry.

    1. Ron Christian

      Linux? probably not

      Much more likely to be Android. Which is not necessarily a bad thing.

  8. Zot
    Happy

    XP cleverly slowed down to a crawl as the years went by!!

    The amount of times I've heard people say, "my computer is old and it's got really slow."

    Microsoft in all it's terrible OS programming have convinced millions of people that computers slow down with age! As if the chips get tired out like an old car engine. So you never know MS, you may have a few more years in the lap/desktop market yet.

    BTW my flashy local Barclays Bank, with it's posh Star Trek styled interior still use XP computers for all their staff.

    1. Ron Christian

      Re: XP cleverly slowed down to a crawl as the years went by!!

      Computers used at two grocery chains in my area still show the Windows 98 splash screen on boot. I have observed this personally.

    2. WatAWorld

      Windows XP got slow because of the security upgrades and antivirus products

      You can install the original Windows XP on an old computer and it flies.

      Update to SP3 and it is passable, but no longer flying.

      Install the AV and its slow.

      Windows XP was built to run on computers that existed at the time with the level of hackers that existed when it was originally designed.

      And computer makers selected the CPUs and graphics cards sufficient to run that original Windows XP and the old original versions of McAfee and Norton.

      So blame the blackhat hackers.

  9. Ron Christian
    Thumb Down

    not just the lack of tablets

    >> Part of the reason why Win 8 was a initially a damp squib was the lack of touch tablets or PCs on the market which could take advantage of the Metro interface TIFKAM.

    Hmm. Well. Perhaps. But speaking as someone who has only ever used it on a hybrid with a touchscreen, I have to say that *most* of the reason why Win 8 was and continues to be a damp squib is that it SUCKS. Even on a touch screen device. I can sorta see how this might be useful on a phone, but laptop or larger it's pants.

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  11. tempemeaty

    Users say, no, it's Windows 8

    It's just my worthless opinion but the economy is only flat-lining the sales. It's Windows 8 that is doing the killing of PC sales. EVERY regular person and I.T. type I ask tell me the same thing the same thing when they see or try the Windows 8...."HELL NO," and they...WILL...NOT...BUY...ANY...PC...WITH...WINDOWS 8.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    As simon cowell's industry are fond of saying...

    You can't polish a turd.

    1. Belardi
      Pirate

      Re: As simon cowell's industry are fond of saying...

      Actually, you can polish a turd...

      The thing is, its still just a turd.

  13. WatAWorld

    If OS/x and Linux can't make Windows 7 obsolete why think Windows 8.1 would?

    If OS/x and Linux can't make Windows 7 obsolete why think Windows 8.1 would?

    If OS/x and Linux sales and downloads were skyrocketing while Windows 8 computer sales were slow, it would make sense to fault Windows 8.

    But they aren't.

    People are happy with the desktops and laptops they have.

    Computer hardware manufacturers have only themselves to blame for their lack of useful technological enhancements.

    So few new Windows 8.1 computers, but also few new OS/x and few new Linux computers too.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: If OS/x and Linux can't make Windows 7 obsolete why think Windows 8.1 would?

      "few new Linux computers too."

      All my new computers run Linux - mind all my old ones do too

      1. mmeier

        Re: If OS/x and Linux can't make Windows 7 obsolete why think Windows 8.1 would?

        One computer bought since 1998 ran Linux. A castrated and lobotomized version AKA Android. Sold it

        No computer my parents bought runs Linux

        No computer in the family does. Some run iOS or MacOS but those are at worst BSD (Actually Mach-3 with BSD personality)

        No box in the company runs Linux. Some run Solaris, all clients Windows. And the clients are brand new (mid 2012)

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "PC makers REALLY need Windows 8.1 to walk on water - but guess what?"

    "PC makers REALLY need Windows 8.1 to walk on water - but guess what?"

    It's sunk in shit?

  15. WatAWorld
    Thumb Down

    Computer hardware manufacters continue to blame MS for the lack of hardware innovation

    The headline should perhaps have read, "Computer hardware manufacturers continue to blame MS for the lack of hardware innovation."

    Computer hardware manufacturers have only themselves to blame for their lack of useful technological enhancements.

    No useful hardware enhancements means consumers are happy with the hardware they have.

    In fact, if Windows 8.1 did do something amazing that people couldn't live without, IT STILL WOULD NOT HELP PC SALES because people would just buy the Windows 8.1 software to run on their existing PCs.

    And if Windows 8 was so bad, then Apple OS/x and Linux sales would be surging. They aren't.

    If you want to sell more hardware, invent something so great that it makes existing desktops and laptops obsolete.

    1. Charles 9

      Re: Computer hardware manufacters continue to blame MS for the lack of hardware innovation

      "If you want to sell more hardware, invent something so great that it makes existing desktops and laptops obsolete."

      It's a very hard thing to make "good enough" seem obsolete. It would require a computing paradigm shift: a shift on what's considered absolutely essential.

  16. Thorfkin

    Sales Downturn

    I don't believe the economy is fully responsible for the sales downturn. It definitely played a small part but overall people have always been willing to pay for a product that provides good value and that's where I think the real problem resides. Windows 8's interface is crap for traditional desktop users. The fault lies with Microsoft. It's a shame they're trying so hard not to acknowledge that fact. Instead they should just do what they did when Vista wouldn't sell. Redesign the interface to give customers what they want and sell it as a new version. I'm not convinced the tweaks they're planning with Windows 8.1 will be enough to spark interest.

  17. Passing Through

    W8 v Unity

    Ubuntu / Canonical has had a lot of negative feedback from the move to Unity, I have to say the after a bit of a shock I now like it.

    I tried Ubuntu when unity first came out and found it slower than the Mint I had been using, mainly I think due to a problem getting the Nvidia driver to work with my old card.l

    I quickly gave up and went gave up and went back to Mint, and that has stayed on my desktop.

    A buddy of mine asked for help getting his W7 netbook fixed "no problem" says I, expecting a quick factory reset type of fix, not so easy, the reinstall kept failing due to a recurring error, something to do with corrupted files or whatever, the upshot was by this time I'd had a few beers and the quickest option to produce a working computer was to stick in my ubuntu pen drive, job done.

    Having installed the newer Ubuntu I thought it best to upgrade my own netbook to the same version as I expected to get requests for help and would need to know what to do.

    I used it for a while found it a bit strange, and then having upgraded my desktop to LMDA thought I'd go the same way with my netbook.

    At this point I suddenly realised that I had come round and LIKED Unity, It works like this; the main use of the netbook is surfing, Firefox is on the launcher one click and it's up,plus whatever I'm doing if I hit the "W@" key the lens pops up with the last thing I was doing, which is actually very useful.

    So Unity actually works, and reason for it became clear when I saw the "ubuntu on Android" video,

    In the future your phone IS your pc check it out.

    ==========

    As for W8, well two things, first off its ugly, in Currys or wherever all the displayed desktops are the same Mondrian styled confusion, no focal point just a splat of squares, I like a nice clean desktop with my choice of mood setting wallpaper.

    Secondly, when hit the "W" key all I get is back to the confusion of unattractive oblongs,with no reference point, apparently the 'start button' is being reintroduced but it only does the same as the button, no useful menus.

    So W8 just looks shite, a bit like the very functional but dull front end of Linpus in a way,

    and doesn't have the Unity useful 'get straght back to your last job' feature, plus its windows, so if You get the 'sorry this reinstallation has failed' message you can't just download a clean free new system.

    PS. if you know how to get round the corrupted installation files problem i@d like to know the answer.

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