Windows 8.1 to freeze out small business apps While Microsoft is happy with the “appification” of Windows, and prepares to go-live with Windows 8.1 on October 18, it's created a gap between present and future that could be a stumbling block for a bunch of small ISVs. The kind of company that lives between the consumer and the enterprise will still be able to create and …
Um, could someone explain to me what that sentence means ?
I mean, isn't it in the best interest of a small ISV to expose its apps to as many people as it possible can ? Isn't that exactly the reason why all these app stores are so important ? And why developers are always incensed when their app is banned for some obscure reason ?
Exposition is key. If I spend six months developing something, I sure as hell hope to be able to sell it to as many people as I can. I really don't see how not exposing my app "to the whole world" is supposed to benefit me.
But in the end, it probably doesn't matter anyway. Microsoft is quite obviously playing the pouting child in the corner. Except that this child is a notorious bully, and nobody is going to come hold its hand.
Correct me, but does this mean that Win 8.1 users won't be able to choose what software they run on their computers unless it has been approved by or supplied via Microsoft ?
If so we're talking Anti-Trust. And, anyway, who with any computer know-how would choose an operating system which reduces choice to that extent. Well, I don't count Apple users.
If I'm half right, MS are worse than I thought -- and are gambling with their future.
All switching to html, bollocks. The low hanging fruit maybe. Not the took 10 years of development in-house visual basic / dephi / c++ / c# with a bit of scripting thing that runs the operation and will cost $100k to recode.
I have seen to many rubbish 'terminal' apps that still run core business functions same as they did back on 386's and the business is still paying ridiculous license fees for them.
Brit developers I'm looking at you for building crappy applications with horrible UI and ancient toolsets!
Well yes, but Microsoft seems to not understand that any more. Otherwise their new entry to the mobile computing world would have included x86 emulation, and a "GUI-resizer" which makes such old GUIs work on a touch screen.
BTW, if you are on Delphi you are actually fairly lucky. If you were programming very cleanly your software might compile on Lazarus... giving you instant compatibility for lots of new platforms.
A "x86" emulation running on what CPU? I can get a nice, long running system that can emulate ARM easily (say on one of the 4 cores) but the other way round? What you want to use? Sparc CPU to emulate an Atom?
GUI-resizer? What for? If you want to use classic applications on a tablet - buy one with a Wacom or NTrig stylus. There are literally a dozend of them on the market in all sizes and performance / endurance classes. No need for "resizing etc". And no need to put fingerprints on a device you might want to hand a customer.
Reading this article and the comments had me falling about laughing. The ignorance exposed and the total lack of understanding of how any of this technology actually works, let alone the actuality of how real businesses work is mind-blowing. I've been debating giving up the Reg because the value to noise ratio has got so bad, but I can't resist flaming the morons who frequent these comments before I go.
Lets get one thing straight. You can install any windows app, whether it uses a traditional or modern UI, on Windows 8 or 8.1. If you want to *market* your app to the world and dog you can use the store and pay Microsoft or you can market it yourself, which probably means paying Google instead (advertising costs money you know).
In a corporate environment where you want to control what apps are loaded you can use side-loading or you can use traditional distribution methods. It all still works.
Anyone who has done any basic testing of Windows 8 and 8.1 knows this. which just proves that people commenting here have never used it for real, are incredibly stupid or probably both.
Linux is not generally a suitable desktop solution for the vast majority of enterprises. there may be exceptions to this rule, but I have yet to find one. Sure you can install it and then spend a fortune supporting it and trying to find apps that mimic the Windows apps that users really want to use. The most likely result of putting Linux on the desktop is to totally piss of your user community. Hey, but if that is what gets your socks off go for it. I'll get paid to sort out the mess so it'll keep me in work.
The level of bias now evident in most Reg articles and comments has reached ridiculous proportions. In response to this post we will see a whole bunch of deniers claiming their organizations has, or is about to, put Linux on the desktop. That's the tune they've been singing for over a decade and the market share is still in single digit figures. Ah, but Android is really Linux they will claim, and phones are really computers. They might be computers, but enterprises don't use them as desktops. Windows market share remains over 90% with no signs of going anywhere.
People have such short memories. The constant moan that Microsoft doesn't innovate. Microsoft doesn't do this, Microsoft doesn't do that. Why should they? They've never been particularly good at innovating. What they are good at is iterating something until they make it better than the opposition and make a bundle of money from it. Anyone remember WordStar, Word Perfect, VisiCalc, Lotus 1-2-3, DBase, ExecuVision, Netscape, Novell, Banyan, etc.. Whenever Microsoft tries to innovate they get to market too soon. They are far better at waiting for the competition to establish a market and then sandbagging them. Microsoft are still an incredibly profitable company and can afford to throw billions at establishing a position in a market they feel they need to be in. They will change whatever they feel needs changing ignoring all the noise from competitors, media and users alike. The whole modern UI noise is just so similar to the noise when Win95 reinvented the UI last time around. At least Microsoft has a vision about what the UI should look like. Now Apple is starting to copy them and you can even get a modern skin for android if you want. Makes a bit of a change from Linux where you don't know where the UI changes as fast as distros get public. How many competing UIs are there now. I've lost count. How many are actively being supported? Who knows. That's no way to run a business is it, but then of course it isn't one. Whereas, of course, Microsoft is. an incredibly successful, profitable one, which is of course the real problem for the freetards.
To anyone who reached here reading the whole rant I salute you. Not my most articulate but I'm just so tired of crappy, ignorant, bias comments. And no, I don't work for Microsoft, I'm not paid by Microsoft, never have been. I've just worked with IT tools that get the job done, whatever they happen to be at the time, for over 30 years, since before windows even existed. And yes, I've used nearly every product mentioned in this post, one way or another, the only exception being ExecuVision which was an early presentation program, prior to PowerPoint's domination of the market.
Sure, they put Linux on their girlfriend's desktop - that was their "organization". And were left by the girlfriend soon after because she couldn't easilty download her picture from the phone and put them on Facebook - or play that pretty game with pink cats.
Windows 8.1 is a great OS but is not enough yet, in my opinion they are missing just about a few tweaks and it'll be perfect, in face I took the time to put together an article about the key changes Microsoft has to make in order to make Windows 8 the perfect OS (And I even made images :)). Please check it out and share, it'll be nice if someone at Microsoft read this.
http://www.mypcfix.co/08/key-things-thatll-make-windows-8-the-perfect-os/
Sorry if I missed something, but why does the item title say "Windows 8.1 to freeze ..." when it should say "Windows 8.1 still freezes ...".
Forums are full of people asking "how do I sideload my app"? And they are people with very good reasons. Small businesses who make apps for small businesses and want to get those apps installed. Sadly, some of them seem to be people who spent some time trying to learn Metro etc and support the new GUI platform - only to find, Yes, they're frozen out. Their apps are too specific to bother certifying and putting on the app store, yet they are for companies too small to have enterprise-domain-joined-windows installs so can't enable sideloading.
And when people find out about the sideloading keys, they ask "where to buy"? - and it turns out (this is not easy information to find) they are bought through volume licensing, in those 100 x $30 packs. (Yes, $3,000).
So these kinds of apps will continue to be built as "legacy" apps, and installed in desktop don't-call-it-mode; skipping Metro (and making RT unviable). Or ... on a non-Microsoft platform.
I got sucked in. Paid $1,000 to upgrade to VS2012 and can't even legally write myself a Metro app for personal use on my own PC's running legally bought copies of Windows 8. (Developer licenses are for "testing only", expire Monthly, and require re-compile of apps to keep them running.) Killed my interest in learning the new "style". Maybe my loss in the long run, or maybe I'll go in some new direction ...
I can see why people with an idea for an app to try to sell to many people (giving MS their 30 % share) might target Metro and the app store; but there is a huge number of scenarios where people are indeed frozen out.
Only for Windows store (Metro) apps. On a non-RT, non-Phone device you can still install "any" WIndows application, for what Microsoft considers the "legacy" desktop environment.
With an Enterprise SKU of Windows, on a domain joined PC, (and some other cases as in the item) you can install Metro apps. The sideloading keys you can buy for other cases come in packs of 100. So the small business is pretty much frozen out of Metro for LOB apps. (But ... not frozen out of Windows 8 altogether).
"So the small business is pretty much frozen out of Metro for LOB apps. (But ... not frozen out of Windows 8 altogether)."
Yep. We could do 'legacy' apps, no problem; our apps which run on XP/Vista/7 work as 'legacy' apps, as is. We can't do MetroSexual apps without going to far too much trouble. As MS is trying to force the use of MetroSexual (look, Ma, there's a Start Button... oh, wait, it kicks out the MetroSexual tiles. Hmm. Our stuff doesn't work with MetroSexual. Why are we even considering moving to Win8.x again?) we simply will not be even trying to support them on Win8.x.
I repeat: it's much simpler _and cheaper_ to support _Apple_ stuff on both the desktop/laptop and smartphones than it is to support MetroSexual. This means that we buy and support Macs, and Windows machines which come with Win7. Once Windows systems stop shipping with Win7 and/or are difficult to retrofit Win7 to them, we will simply have no choice but to move to Apple and perhaps Linux; we have Android versions of our smartphone apps, it shouldn't be too hard to move that to desktop/laptop systems, and both Linux and OS X are UNIX-based systems, so moving to Linux from the Apple stuff shouldn't be too difficult, either. Or we may just give all the techs an iPad or an Android tablet and have done. We definitely won't be handing out Win8.x tablets 'cause it's too hard and too expensive to make our stuff work there.
Congrats, Redmond, you've ensured that the competition gets business. Unless, of course, you change your policy. I, for one, am not holding my breath waiting for _that_.
No, Microsoft won't notice the paltry few systems that we buy... but there are an awful lot of companies our size, most of which won't be going Win8.x either. Add 'em all up and that's a _lot_ of systems, and Microsoft _will_ notice the total. It'll be a bit late then, though. Especially as we don't use tablets as fashion statements, and don't change 'em on a whim; they're business tools, and we keep them for a good while... and once we invest in 'em, we keep going in the same <ugh> ecosystem </ugh>, so once we're gone from Windows we're gone for a good long time, if not forever. MS used to understand business. They no longer do.
Ah, now we are down from "cheaper to support iOS, OSX and Android" to "cheaper to support the Apple platforms only". Sounds a lot more realistic.
Just your solution is showing that, for whatever reasons (I guess an Mac-heavy shop from your writing), you are wearing blinds. The solution "Use classic applications in Java and give techs the choice of Windows/Mac/Unix workstations or Windows/x86 based tablet pc" has been missed. If you dislike Java - concentrate on Win/x86 and use whatever you like there.
If you do not like Win8 - Win7 on a tablet pc works as well. And endurance of the business quality Atom boxes (TPT2, Latitute10) is 10+ hours of use. OTOH if the mobile worker needs a lot of power - there is a core-i for that as well and Haswell gets you 8+ hours
nope, it's still cheaper to support Win7, Android, iOS, and OS X than Win8. By definition that means that it's cheaper to support any one or two of them than Win8, and cheaper to support one or two of them than all four. Simple logic, man.
But, hey keep on trying to out-Eadon Eadon.
> Win8 has exactly the same support costs and requirements as Win7.
For those currently running Win 7 there is an additional cost in Windows 8 of the rollout, all the retraining required, plus the (claimed by some) loss of productivity brought about by having TIFKAM.
So for those currently on Windows 7 there is additional costs, including ongoing costs, in moving to Windows 8 as compared to staying with Windows 7 (or XP).
One time retraining cost - yes. How big it is depends on what the user does and how smart the admins are. If it is "using five to ten programs" (and that is what most users do) training is quite easy for persons IQ100+
Let's face it, most users click on a bright shiny icon and use the application not the operating system. Modern just changes the background for the icons (desktop -> Modern start screen)
as the more likely outcome is that market will reject ridiculous option.
I can see no reason to use Metro apps in any multitasking environment over standard/"legacy" programs (locked out kiosk - maybe). And to think that only small business would be affected is foolish. Small business often relies on off the shelf software, buys pre-configured PCs (and keeps using it until "wheels fall off") - the investment is limited and flexibility quite large. It's the enterprise that has made huge investment in proprietary software solutions, maintains strict system build process and is unlikely to switch to apps for all the "benefits" of Metro land. Not to mention the fact that nobody will replace all monitors just because MS is out of touch with it's customer base.
Leaving the stupid "Modern requires touch" (No. it does NOT!) aside:
What is the problem? One of the big benefits of Windows is CHOICE. If classic Desktop applications are what you want/need - they are there and they work on every form factor between high end desktop and the lil Ativ500t Wacom equiped tablet pc. If an app can do the job - use that. Same element, works on all platforms.
WTF WTF WTF? Small ISVs can someday grow into larger ISVs. ISVs are good for the Microsoft Windows ecosystem, because they create apps that make people want to buy Windows instead of something else like a Mac or one of the zillion Linux distros. So once again, Microsoft shoots ISVs and the richochet shoots self in foot.
There. I said it. Linux.
My paycheck comes from supporting Windows in an enterprise environment. Billion dollar companies where the only people I can call for help is the factory. (usually by telling them how do their job)
Many good points made here about obscure software being used and only written for Windows.
However. most of them don't work for crap. Most of them are already mirrored in Linux. Most of them can be replaced by something browser based, if they haven't already Most of them haven't been updated since XP and don't work in 7, let alone 8.
In fact, the vast majority of my users only need the an Office suite, server directory access, and a browser to do their daily job. Something already more than covered in Linux. And most of them would never know the difference.
Another poster made another good point: without an open platform, the PC becomes just another dumb terminal. In fact, this seems to be the general direction most enterprise operations are moving to, which only emphasis my statement above regarding an office suite, server files and a browser.
Most small business (and I mean small) would easily run on Linux desktops and servers.
Most users don't care. "Do I have a spreadsheet, work processors, email and browser that looks and feels like Orifice? Then I'm good."
That's your average user. THAT'S the bulk of seat licenses.
Why would you want to kill the only thing keeping you in business? What conceivable point is there to using Windows if I can't use small business applications? If I can't use legacy applications I will stop using Windows, simple as that. I don't know anyone who would even argue with me. Windows XP in a VM to run the legacy apps on top of Linux, there problem solved.
Windows ME failure, Windows XP gold, failure but turned around in sp2, Windows Vista failed, Windows 7 was good but not great, Windows 8 failed, and now they want to pull this?
It hurts my brain that this company is still in business at all with all the free alternatives out there. When will people ever learn? STOP SUPPORTING THEM!
It is not clear how "smaller" Free/Open Source Software (FOSS) projects - like LibreOffice, Inkscape, Scribus and several excellent 'education' focused software applications will be allowed to run or even accepted by Microsoft Windows 8.1 apps store.
Microsoft is still attempting, albeit very subtly to eliminate FOSS and thus competition from a software ecosystem with which it cannot compete with quality, reliability and higher performance software products.
I sincerely hope - against reality, that most non-simple minded Americans and citizens elsewhere see this ruse for what it is. The draconian UEFI Boot-loader gimmick was the first 21st century block against FOSS Operating System software like Linux and BSD UNIX-like, now the second step of limited good choice of FOSS applications software for Windows 8.x users.
Will Libre Office etc. be accepted in the apps store? No, they will not. For the same reason that Photoshop or AutoCad won't be there.
They are full sized APPLICATIONS and those are NOT sold through that store. If you want centralized distribution for those you either:
a) Run a website/"shop system" on you own for non commercial stuff. Like say the Apache Website does for OpenOffice etc.
b) Use one of the big companies that offer such services like Digital River (MS is using them) and pay a percentage fee
Which, I suppose, is why you can buy rent Microsoft Office 365 via Microsoft store, right?
In the future all software for Windows will be sold through Microsoft store, and only through the Microsoft store. A main point of Metro is to lock in the Windows users, cellphone-OS-style, so they do not have any choice of where to buy software - because Microsoft can't take a 30% commission for every piece of software sold if it's not sold through Microsoft store.
Windows 9 will be nothing but TIFKAM.
We need to get folks over to Linux. Windows 8 finally drove me to start using LinuxMint (to be exact) and its "learning curve" was far better and logical than the turd known as Windows 8.
Not sure why its called Windows when there are NO WINDOWS in TIFKAM.
Oh, imagine the small software company that has these issues of trying get their software to work on Win8 on a client if it costs $1000 and MS gets its standard 1/3rd cut.
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