Microsoft buys Nokia's mobile business Microsoft has announced it is buying Nokia's mobile devices and services business. Revealed in a flurry of press releases in the small hours of Tuesday, the deal will see Microsoft “pay EUR 3.79 billion to purchase substantially all of Nokia’s Devices & Services business, and EUR 1.65 billion to license Nokia’s patents, for a …
That's revenues - not profits. Given that it was profitable on 28 billion euro in 2010 I'd guess we're talking annual losses of $5Billion now.
MS wanted the longterm patenting agreements with Qualcomm - I guess they know they wont make any money out of selling phones but hope to easily get their money back by screwing little android producers and harassing the bigger ones in the US courts.
Or they could have just lost it completely and are clutching at any straw to make it look like they are in the game still.
"So, how much would this have cost M$ before Elop ran them into the ground?"
Nokia were in dire straits before their initial partnership with MS. You think they just accepted MS's massive cash injection and conditions for the lulz? Nokia have actually recovered somewhat under Elop with growing phone sales. Your timelines are all out of whack.
"Elop killed any potential for long term independant growth. Completely gutted R&D"
Nokia had barely any money before the cash injection by MS. They had to sell of their own head quarters! And you think Elop is responsible for shutting down some thriving R&D division? Facts are against you.
And an Appeal to Authority argument has never been as flawed as just now, when you use opinions of posters on these forums as your authority! You may have noticed just the teensiest bit of bias around these parts.
Then again, you may not. ;)
Just because we're baised doesn't mean we were wrong. Nokia's biggest hope of selling high end smart phones at the moment is the 1020. The research needed to make that possible started what was it, six or seven years ago and first saw the light of day in the 808. It has the wow factor needed to shift expensive products in a competitive market place. Where is the next big innovation going to come from? You can't compete at the top end of the market without it and Nokia just don't have it any more and that's where most of the money is made. The slow pace of development for Windows 8 phones in general doesn't bode well.
BTW were did all those patients that Microsoft just licenced just come from?
Nokia were basically without a phone they could sell for over a year after Elop told the world our phones are crap, don't buy them and then took his sweet time in getting the new improved models out (I know it takes a while to develop a new range but why didn't he wait till he crossed that bridge before he burned it?). They could have started selling tin cans and string and their figures would have gotten a dead cat bounce.
I have this suspicion that somehow Microsoft got the news about the N9 (from people at Intel? Some Symbian jealous VP at Nokia?), which was the new future for Nokia. Without Nokia burning their Symbian base and dismantling the MeeGo efforts, where would be Microsoft? Samsung just releasing windows phones for the sake of not being bullied by Redmond, HTC idem ibidem...so, here we are now. But you know what? If even with Elop at the reigns of Nokia, Microsoft its not capable of releasing new updates with the "wow" factor of windows phone, its not buying Nokia they will do it. Developers know how Microsoft drops support for their own technologies very easily and often. A pint of Jollia bartender!
If a bunch of ex-Nokia peeps jump ship and start a company building Android (or some other OS; but it absolutely must have an emulator capable of running either Android or iPhone apps, and I know which one is easier) mobiles specifically not for sale in the USA (this is not difficult in practice, as they just have to make them GSM-only and therefore incompatible with US networks) then they won't need to pay bogus royalties to Microsoft for patents which don't apply outside the USA.
The new startup probably won't ever reclaim the crown Nokia once held, when that tune was the most-recognised piece of music on the planet; but with some of Nokia's expertise on board, a decent OS (and therefore, app collection) and immunity from extortion, they could still do well.
If Nokia wanted to blow Microsoft a final raspberry, there's also still time for them to turn over all of their remaining IP to the Public Domain while the ink is drying.
Surely, this means Elop is going to be the new MS CEO?
Because what I can see happening is any sane CEO going "right, let's ditch all the loss making businesses. Now."
Making an acquisition like this during a CEO-transition phase makes zero business sense... unless you already have your new CEO ready, and the direction for the next five years pre-agreed and mapped out.
My question is whether the MS shareholders will like this deal. And if they don't, are there enough of them upset about it to actually do anything about it?
"There's nothing left of Nokia after what they have bought however. Stripped assets, throw the remains on the tip. They've still got what they wanted."
Stop talking about what you know nothing about. Nokia has a market cap of 19bn and MS have just bought a division of Nokia for 5bn. Unless you think that MS some how pulled off the sale of the century or that the remaining 14bn in market value is just stupendously inflated stock (Nokia - inflated, yeah right!), then you're of necessity wrong. Nokia have telecoms networks, routing equipment, services, store chains (just not in the USA) and has a number of subsidiaries.
You do not know what you're talking about, so stop, read, instead of chasing recommends on websites.
A market cap that has dropped from $40bn in the last 2 years (and was over $200bn back in 2000) and yes what does the remainder represent without Devices and Services? A division that includes all the feature phones.
Yes, MS have got a sale of the century. They have a mobile brand, access to patents and manufacturing business for next to nothing relatively. What remains (some $12bn if you like, if you're talking US$ when quoting $19bn, so $19bn - $7bn for the purchase, not 5) is perhaps the true value, or maybe inflated. I think the latter still a little, but anyway. We'll see what the market thinks of the company when it has no mobile phone business, smart or otherwise.
When you think of Nokia in the future when it comes to other than mobile phones, who are they? Little more than a mom & pop outfit dabbling in this and that with no special qualities.
Blah blah blah....trojan horse.....blah blah blah....told you so.....blah blah blah.....<insert Ballmer-related insult here, something to do with bald, chair throwing, etc>....blah blah blah....
Although it will earn me a massive wave of downvotes, the sad truth is that Nokia was steadily heading for Shit-City before Microsoft came along. Despite the overweening and somewhat cultish fondness a vocal minority of people seem to have around Symbian, it was a dying platform that needed the plug pulled. The last Nokia phones with it on were crap.
Anyone who didn't see the Microsoft acquisition of Nokia looming from the outset is dangerously naive, and I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.
the actual numbers IIRC are more like 1% of the malware market is aimed at WP (same as iOS also on 1%), Older Nokia phones get around 19% of the malware pie with unfortunately the Android Phone diorama attracting in the high 70+%'s - BEWARE!
last time I updated my WP it took until 2 am!!!! discover/download/install/wait-restart/rebuild-about seven times in a row (M$ kept promising that each new d/l contained all previous WP d/l's but it sure didn't seem that way)
Still, WP phones have almost the correct security/performance/price point at present - but they must be more heavily attacked than iOS based as how there isn't the market penetration of Apple?... maybe you have better figures?
I love my N9
To this day it's a brilliant, feature complete smartphone.
Elop killed it. His MSFT masters did not want a superb linux based smartphone completing with their WinPho offerings. Side by side, there's no comparison. And Elop killed it without having a WP handset for some time.
So while Nokia had problems they were 1000 times worse after Elop had his way.
And look, he's welcomed back to Redmond. They'll have a 'mission accomplished' banner above the door.
Sorry no. This is not true.
(Posting ANON for a reason.)
The battle was lost because of a lack of apps when competing with "We've got an App for that' which is available across the platforms sold, not just the phone.
The problem with the older Nokia phones was that they never understood how the rest of the world organized their data and the apps were a pain in the ass to deal with.
Microsoft tossed a shit load of money at them so they couldn't refuse.
Had Nokia been able to turn things around... maybe. But they couldn't.
One thing for certain... you're going to see changes in Nokia.
Does that mean we'll get HERE maps and associated services on non-Windows Phone platforms? While HERE's places of interest and traffic info can be a bit spotty, the fully offline navigation abilities still leave the competition in the dust. I still get quarterly map updates for my old Nokia N8 maps and the entire country fits into about 104MB.
"Does that mean we'll get HERE maps and associated services on non-Windows Phone platforms?"
Potentially. But keep in mind that Google compete with that with their own maps so they'll do everything they can to keep it off Android. And as we've seen, they can play quite dirty when they want.
Still, it's quite possible that Nokia will release a HERE maps app for Android. If only for the lulz in seeing Google contorting to stop them. ;)
Apple have invested quite a bit in their own mapping system, but there's no reason they can't licence some of the HERE data / technology. It's clearly better than their own and one of their main motivations was not to be dependent on their chief competitor (Google) for a vital service. Nokia will no longer be a competitor (or far, far, far less so), so I could see that happening. Not saying it would, saying it could.
And then there's Tizen. I see Samsung making a big push with Tizen in the next few years. It would make excellent sense for them to licence HERE maps.
So in summary: we don't know, but there are reasons why we might see Nokia HERE services on other phones. It's certainly in Nokia's interest, has little downside and MS don't really care that much and can't stop them if they did.
I thought the partnership approach was quite strong, with the software guys doing the software and the hardware guys doing the hardware. I never felt Nokia had the Android option - they would have been just another HTC - so the Windows Phone route was clever. But then Microsoft didn't do their end of the bargain, massively hindering Nokia's turnaround. Still, the partnership could have worked.
Now it looks a lot like Nokia's mobile business is entering the final fuck-up stage. RIP
Okay!
In a perfect world this could turn out to spell great success for Nokia.
They still have their patents. MSFT is simply taking over the smart-phone divisions. (As far as I've understood it)
Nokia can spend all that money to (re)develop an OS, produce a wonderfully awesome phone. Hardware like a Lumia but without Winpho. Winpho will die since only MSFT will be producing phones using it. In a few years Nokia can smile and wave at Elop - as he leaves his chair as MSFT to "pursue other endeavours".
Presumably the powers that will remain at Nokia aren't daft, and if everyone here at El Reg saw this deal coming years ago, then perhaps they did too.
Enough wishful thinking for one comment. Harsh reality may soon bite again, but not until my fantasy-bubble coat is worn down.
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