back to article Integrator 2e2 axes 319 UK staff, halts pay cheques - insiders

Troubled integrator 2e2 Group has let go 319 UK sales and admin staff and, to add insult to injury, their pay for last month is being withheld, sources claim. After weeks of negotiations by investors and bosses to keep the debt-laden business afloat, the decision was taken yesterday to call in administrators FTI Consulting for …

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  1. Mark 78

    who will give them credit

    who will give them credit when they are refusing to pay staff for work already done.

    1. Andyf

      Re: who will give them credit

      More to the point, who's going to turn up to work for a company that refuses to pay for work already done?

      Except. of course, to take goods from the office to the resale value of the wages owed.....

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Thumb Down

        Re: who will give them credit @Andyf

        Except that leaves the staff open to legal action by the administrators...

        1. Andyf
          Unhappy

          Re: who will give them credit @Andyf

          "Except that leaves the staff open to legal action by the administrators..."

          That's IF the administrators can pick individuals out of a mob of angry staffers...

          I take your point though, company assets and all that. Boils my blood that people can be treated like this, though. Next report will probably be that any staff who haven't turned up for work following not getting paid will be fired for breach of contract and not get redundency pay, or somethign similar.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: who will give them credit @Andyf

            Andyf, I don't blame you. I feel the same.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: who will give them credit @Andyf

            I don't think you are correct, if 2e2 don't pay the staff then the contract is already breached

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: who will give them credit @Andyf

          Potential legal action from the administrators only if they can prove who took an item. A friend worked for Enron, and made off with a number of laptops when they collapsed. He said that with hindsight it wasn't a surprise they went bust - among the many pointless puchases by the senior management was an enormous model railway for the boardroom!

        3. Chris007
          WTF?

          Re: who will give them credit @SP

          Many years ago (2002 I think) when The Accident Group in Manchester went belly up, they owed their staff back pay as well. There were reports (and pictures) of some staff removing fully populated Cisco 6500 switches from the DC, loading them into their cars/vans and driving off (wasn't just cisco switches but as I'm in networking that caught my eye). I don't recall the administrator going after them but I may be wrong.

      2. Matt Bryant Silver badge
        Devil

        Re: who will give them credit

        ".....Except. of course, to take goods from the office to the resale value of the wages owed....." Appearing soon on eBay, several laptops, one careful owner, slight sticky mark where the asset tag was removed....

        1. Van
          Pint

          Re: who will give them credit

          Ironically, the staff would get a better price on ebay than what the company or administrators would get from a 'house clearance' type company.

          Maybe administrators should try to pay the staff with hardware, whilst it's still there.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    what utter scum

    I bet the directors still walk out with a reasonable package from all of this.

    The staff should all walk today, let the directors deal with the mess, then class action sue them for their pay.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: what utter scum

      No class action law suits in the UK. I do agree thought that the directors will most likely walk away with their massive pension pots and bonuses intact, only to wreak havoc on other companies. All thanks to the old boys network that keeps the senior suits on the merry-go-round.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: what utter scum

      Frankly, they should be taken to task over that.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "Customers will be asked to undertake to pay amounts due to the companies (without set-off or counterclaims) together with an undertaking to pay for the ongoing cost of services as they are incurred at the existing contractual rates,"

    So the firm are wanting to rip off customers who are also creditors? If I was a customer, my reply would be good luck with that.

    1. The Godfather
      Meh

      Tricky...

      This may prove tricky and will depend on the contractual documents applicable. Usually, they will always include a clause that renders contracts null and void on any insolvency process of a supplier or customer.

      2e2 customers are however are legally obliged to pay debts for services already rendered and delivered.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    You could see this coming...

    ....about 5 years ago.

    I used to work for one of the companies 2e2 bought out and left as soon as that deal completed - this was obvious from the start. No business that is as aggressively acquisitive as this over such a short time frame is genuinely in it for the long term - its about lining your pockets as quick as poss for the people at the top, and then buggering off when it all goes wrong.

    How long until Capita follow suit i wonder, though the sheer volume of government contracts in their bag may stave off a total collapse ....

  5. alliej
    Unhappy

    Fantastic - Not!!!

    My husband was an employee of 2e2 until a conference call along with the other 318 at 11am this morning, They were told they were redundant with immediate effect and yes you thought right - you won't be paid on Thursday!!

    Thanks for nothing 2e2, not only are we now broke this month but you had the audacity to let my husband incur another £100 petrol costs by sending him to Scotland yesterday to work on a contract!!

    B******S!!!!!!

    1. Chris007

      Re: Fantastic - Not!!! @alliej

      My sincerest thoughts go out to you - I also know of a few people who went to 2e2 who've been affected. Shits to the management on this one - they should be barred from directorships for 20 years

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Thumb Down

      Re: Fantastic - Not!!!

      My condolences! That's unfair. I hope your husband finds something new soon.

    3. The Godfather
      FAIL

      Re: Fantastic - Not!!!

      Extremely sad event and unwarranted treatment of staff. Detest situations like these as employees and suppliers end up losing most if not all but investors and directors seemingly walk away with less pain.

  6. Mark Allread

    If I worked there and they were holding my wages

    I'd be walking out of there with my PC and anything else I could carry.

    1. JaitcH
      Thumb Down

      Re: If I worked there and they were holding my wages

      That's why they give you a small cardboard box for your stuff and an escort to the gate!

      1. sabba
        Paris Hilton

        Re: If I worked there and they were holding my wages

        I'd like to see the fuckers walk 300 plus people to the gate.

        The laws on corporate responsibility really need to be tightened up in this country - and employees should be placed at the head of the list when it comes to doling out whatever assets remain. Waiting until two days before pay day before telling people they won't be paid is not just unfair it's irresponsible and should not be allowed to go unpunished.

        Bet the director's made sure their expense accounts were all settled before they made the announcement.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Sincere condolences to all involved.

    I wish that the articles would stop saying that 2e2's international businesses are unaffected. They don't have any...they're just tax shills surely!

    1. diodesign (Written by Reg staff) Silver badge

      "they're just tax shills surely!"

      They're mainly acquisitions.

      C.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Windows

    Does anyone know if the out going Finance Director Simon Burt was told to sign on at the job centre on his way home two weeks ago?

    Or, just possibly, did he get paid his notice period, pension contributions, etc ...

    1. recruiter

      Bet the got a nice pay off.

  9. recruiter
    FAIL

    Who is going to do supplier them?

    Who will pick it up?

  10. JaitcH
    WTF?

    Employees shafted once again

    In Ontario, Canada, employees are priority creditors before banks and mortgage holders.

    Pity more countries don't do this.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Employees shafted once again

      That's true in the UK too, we have to claim what the government will give us in compensation for lost salary and we are counted as prefferential creditors for the rest of the salary. The government portion is not as much as I was getting paid and comes out of National Insurance contributions.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Advice

    I imagine that those who were made redundant were escorted off the premises so that they couldnt take anything with them.

    However anyone who is still employed by this bunch should be immediately going on sick leave. I mean as of tonight/tomorrow. Pick up any kit, phones, etc you can, and phone in asap on the sick. This will give you time to find a new job as you wont have to be at work. The only reason you are still employed is so the administrators can try and recoup the credit for services supplied, if they dont leave you in the customer can claim breach of contract. You will not be paid I can almost guarantee it.

    Also as you are at home any kit you have on you cannot be removed. Just deny all knowledge of said kit, you have left it in the office, in the data center, etc... Remember not to use it, answer calls to it, etc, you wantto establish you dont have it!

    I would not normally advocate theft, etc, but this bunch of shysters is going to screw everybody.

    Anonymous obviously...

    1. Family Guy

      Re: Advice

      And the staff who are left haven't even been told if they're gonna get paid!!!!

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Advice

        Hence I wouldn't be going in, no point in paying for travel costs. I would be staking my money they wont get paid. Take the chance now to get your CV polished up, speak to agencies, go off on the sick. If they somehow recover you wont be any worse off.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Advice

      >Pick up any kit, phones, etc you can

      Forget the phones, they will be blacklisted as soon as the administrators discover. Certainly, NEVER use the SIM again, and if you've got the phone, wait several months before trying it with a spare PAYG SIM card.

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

  12. Hank Rearden
    Big Brother

    Don't return the laptops

    Who is looking after the interests of the employees? Not the administrators that is for certain. Surely they should appoint a leader.

    Furthermore I am not sure that you are obliged to return the laptops or any other equipment if you are not getting paid.

    Take what you can out of the company, they owe you!

    Aslo if 2e2 in another form survives they must expect to be sued for unpaid salaries.

    1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
      Stop

      Re: Don't return the laptops

      "....Furthermore I am not sure that you are obliged to return the laptops or any other equipment if you are not getting paid......" Be careful as those laptops are assets and belong to the company. Whilst you could argue that the compnay owes you cash it is up to the auditors to sell the business (which means someone else then owns the laptops) or liquidate the assets. By helping yourself you are committing theft, and a criminal record is not a good thing to be adding to your CV.

      Now, if you should find yourself inthe position that you can pinch the laptop that is used by a senior manager or director without them having any way of tracing it to you.....

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Don't return the laptops

        Nope, call it a lien against your salary. Tell them they've got x days to pay your full salary, or you'll be liquididating the equipment and then pursuing them for the balance. ;)

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Don't return the laptops

          answer with "Laptop, what laptop? I left it at work guv, in the server room/build room/desk. Sorry"

          1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
            Facepalm

            Re: Re: Don't return the laptops

            "Laptop, what laptop? I left it at work guv, in the server room/build room/desk. Sorry"

            Yeah, just make sure the disks from the CCTV system go mysteriously missing too..... Oh, what, you actually believe those CCTV cams aren't there to record employee thefts too?

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I did this...

    When I was made redundant last October

    Walked in the next day and filled the car up with equipment

    They didn't care as the entire office was going to be sent to the tip

    Got a nice projector, server, 10 x 2TB drives, a couple of 22" LCD monitors and a few tools

    I am keeping them for a rainy day, which is looking like today

  14. RealBigAl

    Optional?

    Fairly sure in UK law employee salaries for work already completed (as opposed to redundancy and expenses) are top of the list for Administrators to pay from funds available.

    Most administrators allow for "lost equipment" to a certain degree.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Optional?

      Erm yes and no, you will be considered highest priority, but you might be waiting a long time, and it is possible that you will only get x pence in the pound.

      1. Hank Rearden
        Big Brother

        Re: Optional?

        A percentage of the pay owed is better than nothing!!

        They should have given us a heads up earlier at the very least.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Optional?

        The law may pay say that unpaid employees are the highest priority, but that doesn't mean that they'll get paid anytime soon. As the HMRC are the first to get paid, if there's not enough cash from liquidating the company (which itself takes time), then the money comes from a state fund that pays out very belatedly.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Bloody Skivers

    Another 319 Skivers for the govermint and daily mail to complain about....

    1. Hank Rearden
      Big Brother

      Re: Bloody Skivers

      No hard working people denied their rightful salary. take that stupid comment off!

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Bloody Skivers

        @Hank Rearden - adjust your sarcasm detector, it's clearly faulty.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Bloody Skivers

        If you couldn't see it was sarcasm you missed it zooming over your head. We all know that those people who are out of work are skivers. You are either in work and a striver, or out of work and a skiver, welcome to the world of blaming those who are unfortunate.

        1. sabba
          Facepalm

          Re: Bloody Skivers

          Actually I know quite a few people who are in work and are skivers.

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Employment Law

    I am sure that several employment laws were broken today. Whilst 2e2 say it is uncertain that remaining employees will get their January salary payment, all those made redundant today have been told they will get nothing from 2e2. NO January salary payment, NO redundancy for notice period, and expenses likely WILL NOT be paid. Those made redundant today also had no consultation period! This is nothing short of scandalous.

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Very sad for those on the floor.

    I'd been a customer of 2e2 for a number of years and prior to that Kingswell, a good company and small enough to feel that you, the customer, was important. Then Kingswell and Trisys had the misfortune of being gobbled up by this greedy bunch. What is it with these companies - they are nothing more than acquistion shells hell bent of stripping them back to the bare bones and off-shoring wherever they can just to sell off the business at a vast profit once they've found a likely punter. I did read somewhere that the 2e2 were looking to sell for around $400m+ sometime not so long ago but wanted to hold out for more - well they had their a$$es well and truly smoked by this but unfortunately (again) it's the regular employees that are going to suffer once again through the greed and incompetence of the board and their so called "advisors". What a bunch of shysters - they should hang their heads in shame, trouble is they'll pop up again somewhere and stick their snouts in somebody elses trough. These guys can just walk away with nothing more than a slapped wrist - the greedy scum, but the employees stand to lose so much more. Then there's the fallout that will no doubt bring down smaller suppliers who may not be able to weather this. My thoughts are with all of those goods guys and gals at 2e2 and hope you can find a way out of this almighty mess - I'm so very sorry.

    1. The Godfather
      Happy

      Re: Very sad for those on the floor.

      I remember Trisys...a lovely profitable business.. used to visit them regularly.

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    National Security Risk

    So... Are all of the employees that are still based on Government sites considered a security risk? - How would they fare with pinching laptops and servers etc...?

    Surely a disgruntled employee in a government position working in national security departments of inteligence is a security risk? Have they been taken off site yet?

    Maybe they will start selling national secrets?

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: National Security Risk

      Well the majority of the boots on the ground that I encountered in 6 1/2 years with Prime and then 2e2 were too professional and not dumb enough to "start selling national secrets"

      Unfortunately I witnessed first had the disregard the board of 2e2 have for staff. I watched them move a profitable, small, agile technical team that worked closely with the sales force to turn opportunity into revenue repeatedly, into a bigger, slower, more process-bound sister company. A company that was itself an acquisition at a time it'd been a failing business.

      Then move said team out but cripple their actions with tactics such as sending their work to other teams and departments, and then question why they went from an average 120% utilisation to <20%.

      Then watched as that team was slowly made redundant and/or left. Watched as contracts were lost because this sister company used a skills matrix - and only a skills matrix - to determine who was the best fit for a particular piece of work.

      I left myself some years ago but I never wished the company ill and continued to remain in touch with many, many friends there - mostly all very talented and hard working and none of whom deserve to be treated in such a cavalier fashion. My heart genuinely goes out to them.

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    hiring a lot of staff until just recently....

    2E2 have been on a hiring spree recently. They have "poached" a lot of staff from my employer and several of my workmates have gone to work for 2E2 in Reading. I was approached by them directly about a month ago. Interview was all set up, then I got a phone call from their recruitment guy telling me that all recruitment had been suspended. Now I know why.....

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I find it very frustrating that we have such as system like this in this UK where directors of these failed companies do so well out of a failure whilst the normal employee who has a mortgage, family to feed etc is left with nothing. These so called Directors should be banned from running Companies anywhere in Europe for a set period of time and certainly should be under obligation to not receive any pay of any sort whilst others are not. Perhaps I am just dreaming. But if we pull out of Europe even more workers rights are likely to get thrown out as well I expect!

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Fantastic, just like the Soviet Union was like in 1992. Withholding pay, well they should watch out, "they pretend to pay" "we pretend to work". Quid pro quo. Respect works both ways, and workers in IT often know many others in their field.

    Same applies to outsourcers who pay late always. Nothing to do with interest on the payroll money (not theirs) in their bank account then, oh nooo...... of course it forces the employees into debt, often at high interest rates.

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Question - If I do not get my January time sheet signed off can 2e2 still bill my client for the hours I worked?

    If I'm not getting paid for my efforts in January why should they? Especially if any notice/ redundancy payments I eventually receive come from a tax payer funded scheme.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Yes of course

      In fact they have a duty to take in asmuch money as possible as administrators. They will get the money you worked for. The government scheme does try to recover money from the assets to pay for this, but yes they take the money and run!

    2. Hank Rearden
      Big Brother

      timesheets

      If you don't get it signed they can't charge for it, but the administrator will probably get one of the people left in 2e2 to convince the client to sign it. Best to lose it completely as if you werent there for Jan at all.

  23. bill 36
    Thumb Down

    This is all you need to know

    about the leadership of this company when they use a phrase like this.

    "series of briefings" took place this morning in which the strategy "going forward"..............

  24. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Some hope

    My experience is that if the administrators are any good they will be able to flog the business for an amount based on a discounted value of customer service agreements in place, in 2e2s case this should be a substantial amount. So some of the staff will need to be retained; most likely these will be in technical delivery and related administration.

    My advice 'don;t be passive' you're debtors you have a rights including the right to be consulted; GET YOUR VOICE HEARD, militate and make sure you're listened to. If they want you to work on get agreement to be paid by the administrator - if they won;t stop working call in sick. Believe it or not administrators NEED you.

    A glimmer of hope of some compensation is that staff rank high in the payouts Some will be pleased to hear the Directors will be pretty much last (see link below). This is of course cold comfort and nothing can compensate for the anguish and worry that staff and there families will be going through.

    http://www.inbrief.co.uk/business-finance/order-of-priority-for-creditors.htm

    Good luck and don;t go quietly

  25. Hank Rearden
    Big Brother

    2e2 won't last

    2e2 can't keep trading for very long there's too much bad blood, also they got rid of a lot of the brains of the organisation yesterday.

  26. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    One of the 320

    There are a lot of unhappy people this morning, I’m one of them and there are another 319 right behind me.

    As further details have emerged it seems as though in some areas there has been a selection process going on for redundancy where people in the same role as those told to leave with no pay are being retained. Such selection processes are normally public and subject to consultation periods rather than being purely at management discretion.

    I’d suggest this and the no pay and no redundancy payment approach is a gambit by 2e2 management and auditors to get staff off the books as quickly and as cheaply as possible in the hope the staff don’t understand or bother to enforce the fact they have certain employment rights.

    Obviously most people came away from yesterdays meetings and conference calls in a state of shock, panic and anger and the first thing they did was update their CV and check out their finances – whilst everyone needs to move forward as quickly as possible we also need to recognise our rights and these are being abused by our (ex) employer.

    Of course the board, the senior management team and administrators are all scrambling around trying desperately to find a buyer to rescue what is left of the company. The irony here is the board are sitting pretty on their cash piles and won’t be worrying about mortgage repayments or feeding the kids and the nepotistic senior management team will be paid off by the new suitor.

    Any potential suitor must think long and hard about what they’d be buying – the remaining staff will be one step behind the 320 of us in preparing the CVs and customers will be busy invoking contract exit clauses.

    In terms of my next suitor, or employer, I’ll be looking carefully to see if they have been too acquisitive just to continually restructure finances to hide debt. This coupled with the “eclectic” accounting practices enabled by Venture Capitalist and Private Equity ownership are the underlying tools that enabled the board to mismanage the company into its current sorry state.

    I’d like to wish all of my ex-2e2 colleagues the best of luck for the future and take the opportunity to say it’s been a pleasure working with you all. When I joined I asked, “what does 2e2 stand for?” and was told “to escape to” – well lets take this as the opportunity to think we’ve “escaped from” a debt laden mismanaged business.

  27. rocketlass1
    Mushroom

    What a joke company!

    Oh they knew this was coming. When notification was emailed to staff on the Monday evening, not half an hour later a further communication came from the HR Director telling individuals who were on the distribution list, attend at 10am for an 'update'. When we were all huddled in the corner of the office come 10am, with no privacy from the rest of the 'staff', the one token Director who attended didn't have the guts to talk and it was the Administrator dishing out the dirty words of non payment. Telling us to refer to the 'packs' by his side for any Q&A's regarding claiming wages through the Insolvency Service! Couldn't even be straight and say whether the people staying were going to be paid come Thursday. Kept bleating on that Terry Burt had got agreements in place with the banks but they pulled the rug on the Sunday! One ex-colleague, got made redundant the previous week, rehired the following and then made redundant again like the rest of us on the Tuesday! They even had a 'new starter' on the Monday! Within an hour our systems were disabled and laptops 'locked' so we couldn't even get any photos or personal correspondence off our laptops.

  28. Family Guy
    Thumb Down

    Is this what it's all come down to!!!

    Unfortunately the human aspect and respect for people has been lost, people are just seen as a commodity or resource in todays world.

    Not a nice outlook for the future.

    1. Hank Rearden
      Big Brother

      Re: Is this what it's all come down to!!!

      It always was this way. Disposable commodity.

      These behavours have guaranteed the total end of 2e2. 320 + people with bad blood about the name is one hell of a force to be reckoned with and bad blood doesnt just go away. 2e2 is now a poisoned challace, what fool would buy this cursed company or its wretched brand.

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