back to article Will fondleslab's fickle finger of fate help Windows 10?

Just two and half years ago Microsoft dropped Windows 8 on the world, playing Redmond’s card in the touch-tablet game against Apple’s iPad and Google’s Android. Windows 8 was remarkable for three reasons: the touch-inspired Metro interface, the fact Microsoft built its own-branded tablet running Windows, and it put Windows on …

  1. Haku

    I think I'm getting old :(

    I was, well, not 'happy' but 'comfortable enough' and familiar with XP having used it for so many many years, hated Vista whenever I had to use it on other people's machines, I'm still getting to grips with all the nuances of 7, barely had the opportunity to use 8, and now 10 is on the horizon after they scrapped 9!

    Where did all that time (and M$ R&D budget) go?

    P.S. I remember when all this was just fields, now get off my lawn!

    1. Andy Non Silver badge

      Re: I think I'm getting old :(

      I can relate. My old non-internet connected XP computer still gets more use than my Windows 8.1 laptop (which 99% of the time gets booted into Linux Mint instead of Windows).

      Windows 10 is of zero interest to me. It will likely offer me nothing new or extra that would make it a "must have".

      I've still got some DOS 3.1 5.25" disks somewhere.

      1. GreggS

        Re: I think I'm getting old :(

        Actually i'm quite looking forward to Windows 10 if only so that i can wipe the blight of Windows 8.1 off my son's laptop - it can't be as bad as that, can it?

        1. Richard Taylor 2

          Re: I think I'm getting old :(

          Actually 8.1 running on my son's Lenovo laptop/tablet is really quite OK.

        2. Wade Burchette

          Re: I think I'm getting old :(

          Well ... Windows 10 still has the tight cloud/Bing integration, still wants you to use a Microsoft account to log in, still wants to track you for advertising purposes by default, and still has the hideous ugly flat look that makes it hard for the eyes to focus on what is needed. For those reasons, I am still sticking with Windows 7.

          1. Phoenix50

            Re: I think I'm getting old :(

            A Microsoft account will be and currently is, optional.

            Don't want tracking? Turn it off!

            Don't like the theme? Change it!

            Come on, you can do better than that.

            1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

              Re: I think I'm getting old :(

              "A Microsoft account will be and currently is, optional."

              "Currently is" seems to be the case. But "will be"? Do you have some cast-iron assurance on this?

            2. Wayland Sothcott 1

              Re: I think I'm getting old :(

              Well basically you are removing all the 'improvements'. Might as well stick with the earlier version. Yough can get a program for Windows 8 called Start Is Back. That helps.

        3. Wayland Sothcott 1
          Meh

          Re: I think I'm getting old :(

          Well I downloaded Windows 10 beta from Microsoft and it works very well and quite quick. However it still suffers from the main Windows 8 problem of having a Metro interface and requiring a Hotmail account. As long as Microsoft think they can make money from their 'iTune Store' clone then they will keep the Metro interface. However if you ignore the Metro interface it's almost as good as Windows 7 but not as good at XP. The only reason not to use XP is various new versions of programs from Microsoft are not supported.

        4. joed

          Re: I think I'm getting old :(

          Really? I'd not even bother. Despite all the marketing speak there's little in 10 that 8 can't have with free tools (classic shell, virtualwin) with - possibly - better results. The only reason to do so (upgrade) is if one was absolutely committed to cloud and wanted to share even more with MS (and 8 is already leaking plenty). I don't want to say that 8(.1) was good, but 10 is no better (not in the way most users liked their complaints to be addressed). I've lost much of my interest in new MS OSes since the release of 8 and I'd have hard time "upgrading" to 10 even if they gave it away for free. Just forget it if I had to pay for it.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Trollface

      Re: Where did all that time (and M$ R&D budget) go?

      Two words :

      Cloud crap...

      1. Phoenix50

        Re: Where did all that time (and M$ R&D budget) go?

        Here are some more words for you:

        Azure is but one of Microsoft latest billion-dollar businesses.

        Some crap.

    3. James Micallef Silver badge

      Re: I think I'm getting old :(

      Yeah,the old ways are always the best...

      ...and Confucius was already saying that 2500 years ago...

    4. asdf

      seen this before

      > Microsoft’s goal is to cash in on services – bundling things like Office 365 for free for the first year and charged thereafter, when you forget to cancel.

      So in other words the old MSN scam they pulled with Best Buy years ago. You think the class action settlement would still be fresh in their memory. I assume this time you have to actually give them your credit card info unlike the sales people volunteering it for you like before (not crying about Best Buy's slow death at all) so its a bit more above board. Still nothing like resorting to the free credit report business model.

  2. Longrod_von_Hugendong
    FAIL

    The only reason...

    Windows 8 fail was the inability to run it in classic mode, with a start button. If they had given users the option to change interface to what they wanted it or leave it in 'Metro' view it would have not had any negative press and been a great success. What did do was say 'All your desktop are belong to us' and users went fcuk you and left, the rumours were so bad at the start people were already put off.

    Such a critical point - shame no one in a company of thousands thought about it really. Mind you, now sweating monkey boy has gone maybe M$ can get back to sensible development.

    1. Irongut

      Re: The only reason...

      For all Balmer's faults Win8 was not one of them. Win8 and the refusal to listen to criticism of the one true way was entirely down to Sinofsky.

      1. fishman

        Re: The only reason...

        <<<For all Balmer's faults Win8 was not one of them. Win8 and the refusal to listen to criticism of the one true way was entirely down to Sinofsky.>>>

        And who was Sinofsky's boss?

  3. P. Lee

    Is it noscript...

    or are all the pc's in the Windows 10 graphic on page 2 running 4:3 screens?

    Not that that's bad, its just er... retro cool?

    1. MrWibble

      Re: Is it noscript...

      Just ElReg screwing up the picture format.

      http://regmedia.co.uk/2014/12/11/onewindows.png for proper widescreen version.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    No need to anything Microsoft in the home anymore.

    The PC has been sold, and replaced with a Chromebook, which is much better suited for web stuff, it's more secure, lighter, cheaper and great battery.

    Android covers mobile and tablets, and that's not going to change. We have invested in content and very pleased with it, I don't want to go back to a Windows world full of Windows Security nightmares.

    As for gaming, their current Xbox One console isn't very good and tanking badly, with them likely to sell it off very soon, we made the jump from Xbox360 to a PS4 and couldn't be happier.

    Microsoft products in the home: 1 (a mouse)

    Linux/BSD based products in the home 7 (1x Chromebook, 2x Android Phones, Moto G, Nexus5, 2x Android Tablets, 2013 Nexus7, Xperia Tablet Z3C, 1x PS4, 1x RaspberryPI)

    There are possibly loads of other Linux/BSD based devices I am forgetting (Nest, Router?)

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: No need to anything Microsoft in the home anymore.

      Good for you and you are rightly proud of your technical expertise to keep that kit together.

      However, I suspect you are in a non-representative minority.

      Also, dont fool yourself into thinking that the devices you have listed are security risk free.........

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: No need to anything Microsoft in the home anymore.

        I said MORE secure.

        After visiting a friends 2 week old Windows 8 machine that was riddled with malware, as the first thing they tried to install was some Farmville game, All the products I listed are infinitely more secure than this.

        All our Android devices have Allow installs from 3rd parties disabled (and I I want to install something, I trust, I switched it, then right back), shopping from Google Play is safe and secure (despite what snakeoil vendors would scare you into believing). Chromebooks, safe, PS4, safe..

        It's really just Windows that's the security nightmare these days.

        1. Irongut

          Re: No need to anything Microsoft in the home anymore.

          ...riddled with malware... Farmvile game...

          Sounds like a lot of android tablets and phones to me.

          So how did you enjoy playing the latest PS4 games at Xmas? Oh you couldn't? Maybe you shouldn't give your money to a company that thinks it ok to infect their customers with malware, removes features from devices you have owned for years and has IT systems that make a wet paper bag look secure.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: No need to anything Microsoft in the home anymore.

            Had no problems playing PS4 games over Xmas, and despite pretty much every one I know owning an Android device, I have never heard or seen a single real world infection.

            It sounds like you are the sort of person that is easily manipulated by what you read on the internet...

            I have some magic beans for sale, if you send me £100 to my PayPal account, I will stick them in a envelope and send them out to you first class post.

        2. Phoenix50

          Re: No need to anything Microsoft in the home anymore.

          There's one piece of malware on a Chromebook I'm afraid you've not spotted...Google.

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: No need to anything Microsoft in the home anymore.

          I said MORE secure.

          Well, the original AC I responded to said:

          I don't want to go back to a Windows world full of Windows Security nightmares.

          So, assuming you are the same person, the mistake I cautioned against is thinking that the android ecosystem isn't also full of security nightmares.

          Windows 8 has a half decent security model and most compromises are driven by layer 8 errors. This is exactly the same with Android and why, sadly, the Android OS is often seen as the least secure of the mobile platforms.

          If you, or your Windows 8 friends, adopt the same rigorous lock down on app installs as you do with Android, you will have the same level of protection. And the same vulnerability to MiTMs etc.

          You appear to have conflated secure management of applications with underlying OS security.

          1. Hans 1
            Coffee/keyboard

            Re: No need to anything Microsoft in the home anymore.

            >Windows 8 has a half decent security model and most compromises are driven by layer 8 errors.

            ROFLMAO

      2. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

        @AC / technical expertise?

        I am not entirely convinced that Android phones and Chromebooks require technical expertise. I would like to throw my TV and satnav into the same category. The router has an excellent user interface with well written documentation. I have not tested to see if a computer illiterate person can set one up, but somehow lots of people have got online. They cannot all be technical experts, and I doubt that many are using Windows based routers. (Is there such a beast?)

        There is plenty of room for debate about the amount of required technical knowledge for Pi's. Mine are video/music/backup server/clients. Usage is trivial - as tested by computer illiterates. Setting them up required some technical knowledge back when they were new. Millions of Pi's are used as video servers, so the barrier to entry cannot be that high any more.

        Turning the first Chromebooks into Debianbooks used to required an experienced techy, but these days it can be done by a reviewer working for The Register. The 'Desktop' at home is a SolidRun Cubox-i running Debian. This was as easy to set up as a Pi, and is used by non-techies.

        There was a time when Linux knowledge was rare among techies. Now lack of Linux knowledge is rare among techies. Microsoft has publicly admitted the trend: Linux on Azure and Office for Android. Microsoft has enough cash to subsidise Windows for years. One day they are going to pass the maintenance costs onto their dwindling user base. On that day will you be locked in to Microsoft software, or will you be a penguin?

        1. Muscleguy

          Re: @AC / technical expertise?

          The answer to the router question of course is just to wander the streets. From here I can see two SKY default names and one Virgin default. What's the betting their running the default password too?

          I'm not doing that to my neighbours but out and about with my phone I'm not so sniffy and there are plenty of people with unsecured wifis. Which means they have enough technical literacy to turn passwords off.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          @Flocke Crowes

          Getting online with a router is easy. People used to use the default SSID and no security, now routers either come with a random SSID/password on a sticker or an "EZ Setup" button that works in concert with Windows to help you set the SSID/password or set one for you without needing to go into the router GUI.

          "Millions of Pi's used as video servers". That's a laugh, considering that the 4 millionth one was sold just a few months ago (there was a ZDNET article about this milestone) and I imagine a lot were bought by geeks/tinkerers to mess with but ended up in a desk drawer alongside other stuff. They are a geek toy, they are not used in the mainstream at all.

    2. regadpellagru

      Re: No need to anything Microsoft in the home anymore.

      "There are possibly loads of other Linux/BSD based devices I am forgetting (Nest, Router?)"

      Yep, on top of those, for people into videogaming today on legacy Windows/OS X, there are the steamboxes, apparently coming in march, which allow people to run their already purchased games for Windows/OS X (if they are provided for Linux) on them, basically shifting the gaming population to a Linux, Debian-based solution.

      So, same here, bye, MS.

    3. Wayland Sothcott 1

      Re: No need to anything Microsoft in the home anymore.

      Windows PCs are very hard to operate but have always been very capable and adaptable. Android and iOS are fare easier for the average person to use for their average stuff. Microsoft dumbing down the PC is in recognition of the fact that most people don't need the power and complexity. However they have not been able to make them as easy to use as Apple products and the dumbing down makes them even harder to use for the things they are most suited for.

      Basically Microsoft are hastening the PC demise.

      They should have kept windows like Windows 7. They should have done all that Metro stuff just on the Tablets and Phones.

      Just imagine if they had got the Windows 8 speed improvements and it still looked like Windows 7.

      Just imagine if you could fit an ARM co-processor and run the Android and Tablet apps on the PC at super speed.

  5. regadpellagru

    How would they do that ?

    "Rather than making money from the license fee, Microsoft’s goal is to cash in on services – bundling things like Office 365 for free for the first year and charged thereafter, when you forget to cancel."

    Even that is gonna be a challenge, unless you need to issue you visa card number to MS upon acquiring your licence or system ?

    Who on their right mind would do this ? And who would pay a service they don't use, after receiving an email from MS ?

    1. Hargrove

      Re: How would they do that ?

      A more germane question may be "why would they do that?"--That being effectively force a migration of data and operational profit to "the cloud." Cui Bono. And what are the consequences for the user?

      One can speculate: Those who govern clearly benefit. Cloud computing centers will become like so many giant lakes where they can slake their boundless thirst for information about the people they govern. Warrants? We don' need no stinkin' warrants. Read your 50 page privacy policy. Unalienable rights? fuggedaboutit,

      Does anyone really believe that once the cloud provides all of our data services--including applications and security--that the price is not going to go up? And up? And up?

      Competition? The fly in the ointment there is bandwidth. As in pay for, as in supply, as in demand.

      Finally, the elephants in the parlor that nobody in the cloud business wants to even whisper about. Microprocessor reliability and the statistical "law of large numbers."

      All of this is going to exacerbate an already large and growing digital divide in society at large. At the end of that road lies the real prospect of government control of IT services for the benefit of an elite, and the delivery of electronic "bread and circuses to the masses."

      Just speculatin'

      And if we doth protest too much. . . just remember Miriam Carey

      1. A Non e-mouse Silver badge

        Re: How would they do that ?

        A more germane question may be "why would they do that?"--That being effectively force a migration of data and operational profit to "the cloud."

        Is this good for the end user? Probably not. Is it good for the financial bottom line? Yes, as it's predicable revenue. Microsoft have learned from XP. People loved it so much they stopped upgrading and so stopped giving MS money.

        Look at Adobe who are taking it to the extreme. No more perpetual licenses, instead it's annual subscriptions all the way.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: How would they do that ?

          "Look at Adobe who are taking it to the extreme"

          I wanted to get inside some PDF files from Excel VBA. There seemed to be some debate about whether the DLLs with the free Adobe Reader were the reason the Googled method wouldn't work.

          Reconciled myself to buying a pro version of Adobe Reader - then found it was only available on subscription. No way - it just isn't economic as a home user with an intermittent requirement.

  6. Jess

    WIndows 10 is OKish

    If they offer it for £25 like they did for Windows 8, I won't decline it this time. But if it costs much more I'll not bother.

    But I'd prefer windows 7 (or 2000 were it supported).

  7. Eponymous Cowherd
    Holmes

    Will the fickle finger of fondleslab fate help Windows 10?

    No.

    1. theblackhand

      Re: Will the fickle finger of fondleslab fate help Windows 10?

      If they deliver tablets that are similar to higher spec Android devices at a similar cost and provide MS tools (i.e. Office) as part of the bundle, they could manage to get market share.

      Instead MS will deliver a budget tablet at the same price as a high spec Android device with a premium product priced against iOS devices with Office as an additional cost.

      TL;DR - you're right...

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Backward compatibility

    Anyone any idea what application or peripheral backward compatibility is like on W10? My software/hardware purchases work on XP - haven't migrated them all to W7 yet. What has been migrated hasn't worked 100%.

  9. Wilfthebison

    Windows 11 out soon.

    Since it started Microsoft has released a lemon, then a good one, then a lemon. Most recently; Vista, Windows 7, Windows 8. By this reckoning Windows 9 should have been a goody. It seems pretty ominous that Microsoft have decided to leap over 9 and go straight to lemon 10, but I suppose they should know.

    On the bright side Windows 11 should be pretty good......

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