back to article Rise of der Maschinen: Daimler trials ROBOT LORRY in Germany

Daimler has sent out a robot-chauffeured lorry on German motorways for the first time. Accompanied by a human nanny, in this instance the Daimler board member Wolfgang Bernhard, the Mercedes-Benz Actros lorry with the Highway Pilot butlerware successfully completed its "partially automated" road trial. The vehicle's Highway …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    So on the motorway the driver is just there to be blamed ?

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      "So on the motorway the driver is just there to be blamed ?"

      No, he's there to call the tow-truck when the GPS navigated automated system gets firmly wedged round a tight corner in a narrow lane.

    2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      And eat the Yorkies

    3. John Robson Silver badge

      He's there to fill the tank and drive between the depot and the motorway slip road. Then from the slip road to the destination...

      1. Nigel 11

        He's there to fill the tank and drive between the depot and the motorway slip road. Then from the slip road to the destination...

        And if/when unsupervised robo-trucks on M-ways become legal, this is rather useful. Presumably if the truck is driving itself, the driver will be resting as far as tachygraph regulations are concerned. Which in turn means that a motorway snarl-up doesn't mean the driver running out of legal driving hours, and the cargo might arrive just an hour or two late rather than a day late.

        Might also mean that a driver could pull in to a service station equipped for robo-trucks, send the truck on its way, cross the M-way on a pedestrian bridge, and wait for another truck that's driving itself the other way. So drivers wouldn't have to spend nearly so many nights away from home.

      2. Martin Budden Silver badge

        He's there to ... drive between the depot and the motorway slip road. Then from the slip road to the destination

        Which is basically the job of long-haul airline pilots. It works for them.

  2. Your alien overlord - fear me

    So whose going to pick up hikers?

    Or if I was Jeremy Clarkson, whose going to kill the prostitutes?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      when they're dead

      .... they're called hookers.

      (*Archer).

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      You nasty nasty person.

      The robot 'relieves' the driver so no need to pick up prostitutes.

    3. Nigel 11

      So whose going to pick up hikers?

      I think you mean, who'd going to stop the hikers and illegals from jumping on board?

  3. Mark 85

    Sacrificial Board Member?

    Or a brave one?

    1. ShadowDragon8685

      Re: Sacrificial Board Member?

      Perhaps he drew short straw, or perhaps he was the only one with the appropriate training and qualifications to operate a lorry?

      1. DocJames
        Joke

        Re: Sacrificial Board Member?

        yes, I thought I'd probably have picked a professional driver rather than a board member. Unless the lorry in question is named "Der Golgafrincham Ark B" and also contains a dirty dashboard phone.

    2. Evil Auditor Silver badge

      Re: Sacrificial Board Member?

      Or a brave one?

      Nah, just the one being oblivious of what's really going on (cf. VW).

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Makes sense - there are fewer variables in motorway driving than -say- going through a crowded high street. If the driver is trusting the autopilot to navigate the boring stretches, though, I think this bit:

    In automated mode the driver has control over the truck at all times and in tricky situations can take over driving of the vehicle again.

    ...might be a bit optimistic. If the driver is trusting the automation then there's going to be a big lag in reaction time compared to a 'manual' driver; and if he doesn't trust then the whole thing will be more stressful than just turning the thing off and driving normally.

    Also -as it's Germany- here's some advice from the rest of Europe: In most of Europe; when a lorry is indicating to come out and overtake; a driver behind flashing their lights means "It's safe mate, come on out"; whereas a German driver flashing means (apparently) "Fuck off peasant, I'm coming through". And are hilariously surprised when the lorry pulls out in front of them. Hilarious for everybody but them if they manage to stop in time, that is. Frequently seen on the M2 near Dover. It goes something like:

    Lorry Driver: [indicate]

    German Driver: [flash]

    Lorry Driver: "Thanks mate" [Pulls out]

    SFX: Skreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeech

    Lorry Driver: [Waits for the bang]

    SFX: Screech stops, no bang

    Lorry Driver: Starts chortling

    German Driver: [presumably swearing]

    Lorry Driver: [Looks for German numberplate]

    Lorry Driver: "Yup"

    German Driver: [Turns colours, gesticulates furiously as they go past]

    Lorry Driver: Chortling turns into guffaws

    ...so the advice is that you might want to sort that out if you're planning to use your automation outside Germany.

    1. A Non e-mouse Silver badge

      @moiety

      I hope they talk to the aircraft industry. There has been much research into human/machine interfaces there. One of the findings was that humans trust machine far too often - even when it's bloody obvious that the machine is wrong the human is reluctant to take over.

      IIRC, there were also problems when the machine unexpectedly gave control back to the human (e.g. When the machine encountered an unexpected issue). Either the human didn't realise or wasn't prepared to take back control.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        That's what I meant with the increased lag time. Most tricky situations on motorways are basically the traffic slowing down in front of you; which the automatics should be able to deal with. Most of the other examples are things that happen suddenly and -with the additional time necessary for realisation and handing over control- it would probably not end well. And there is definitely a percentage of people who will fire up Netflix or something similar, thus increasing the lag time even further.

        There are some slowly-developing "tricky situations" (like after snow but before gritter); but the solution there would be to tun the automation off.

        It's early days and I can see it working; but there are definitely bumps in the road ahead. That flashing cultural difference is going to kill people however you play it; unless you don't let automated lorries overtake at all.

        1. Alan Brown Silver badge

          " Most tricky situations on motorways are basically the traffic slowing down in front of you;"

          The part that the computer really needs to deal with (but probably can't) are deer/horses/other large animals on the carriageway and things (including people) suddenly dropping down from overbridges.

          Then again most meatsacks can't cope with these things either.

      2. Speltier

        Re: Steel guts, give up control

        Or if one believes the boob show on the Sovietski flight 593 / Airbus A310 that crashed in Siberia (Kid at Controls): all the pilot had to do at the end was... let.go.of.the.controls. and the Airbus would recover. Yes, sometimes the machine will save meatbags, probably like a cat saving a mouse... Regardless, no one had trained the pilot to Trust In The Machine, and even if so it is really hard to release the adrenaline fueled tetanic hold on the controls to let the autopilot save your bacon (after doing something so stupid as to put an untrained person in the command seat during an (ex live) flight).

        1. Lars Silver badge
          Flame

          Re: Steel guts, give up control

          @ Speltier, Yes that was a sad story. I also tend to look at those air crash stories. They claim about 70% are caused by human error. Pilots who get disoriented and what not. I am thinking about patenting a doll on a string (naked) in front of the pilot to tell him what is up and down and so forth, will not fail. But I am not Apple.

          Not the type of programs one would recommend to people who fear flying but just the programs I would recommend for people who think regulations are always such a bad idea. One topic that suddenly disappeared was the "drive-by-wire", soon as Boeing went for it too.

        2. Vic

          Re: Steel guts, give up control

          Going off on a slight tangent...

          all the pilot had to do at the end was... let.go.of.the.controls.

          There's a wonderful story about the so-called Cornfield Bomber. The pilot managed to get the aircraft into a flat spin, which he deemed unrecoverable (probably correctly).

          He ejected.

          The thrust from the ejection, coupled with the change in CofG, caused the aircraft to come out of the spin. It then landed in a field, where it was left to run out of fuel. It was returned to service.

          Vic.

      3. ShadowDragon8685

        Re: @moiety

        "IIRC, there were also problems when the machine unexpectedly gave control back to the human (e.g. When the machine encountered an unexpected issue). Either the human didn't realise or wasn't prepared to take back control."

        I don't know what, if anything, could be done if the human wasn't prepared to take back control, but lorries - and airplanes - should probably have some LOUD WARNING that audibly says "MANUAL CONTROL ACTIVATED!" Or something to that effect; something that would prompt the pilot/driver to go "oh shit!" and grab the stick/wheel.

        Daimler might also want to talk to, oddly enough, long-haul freight railways. In the US at least, they have a button that the engineer needs to press every now and then to ensure they're not TOO distracted/haven't died suddenly. Something like that might help - you don't want the driver to be pulled too far out of the loop, after all.

        That having been said, lorries have an important safety feature airplanes don't; the machine can simply switch on the flashers and apply the brakes gently, giving traffic behind them time enough to react and bringing the vehicle to a complete stop. Much (presumably German) swearing will ensue, but hopefully no bloodshed.

        1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
          Thumb Up

          Re: @moiety

          "have some LOUD WARNING that audibly says "MANUAL CONTROL ACTIVATED!" Or something to that effect; something that would prompt the pilot/driver to go "oh shit!" and grab the stick/wheel."

          I can attest to that working very well indeed. While driving, I shouted out to my wife who was in the passenger seat "GET YOUR HANDS ON THE WHEEL", whereupon she immediate reached out to the non-existent steering wheel that wasn't in front of her. As a kicker, she's not driven a car since she failed her driving test 40 years ago :-)

          1. ShadowDragon8685

            Re: @moiety

            I would have thought that even the strictest polities would have allowed her to retake the test by now!

            Or did she just say "sod it" and give up?

        2. Pookietoo

          Re: "oh shit!" and grab the stick/wheel.

          You don't want the driver to grab the wheel - you want to give him the opportunity to take control once he's assessed the situation, and make a best effort attempt to deal with it automatically until then. So an "I may not be able to handle this" warning from the machine, rather than "I just gave up - good luck".

    2. big_D Silver badge

      Not quite Moiety. One long flash means I've seen you, I'm making room, pull out. Multiple flashes mean "you berk, haven't you noticed that I am closing on you with a speed difference in excess of 100mph!" :-O

    3. Dr. Mouse

      Wrong!

      Also -as it's Germany- here's some advice from the rest of Europe: In most of Europe; when a lorry is indicating to come out and overtake; a driver behind flashing their lights means "It's safe mate, come on out"; whereas a German driver flashing means (apparently) "Fuck off peasant, I'm coming through".

      While it is common practice to "flash someone out" of a junction, it should NEVER be relied upon by ANYONE. Do you remember your highway code?

      Rule 110

      Flashing headlights. Only flash your headlights to let other road users know that you are there. Do not flash your headlights to convey any other message or intimidate other road users.

      [https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/general-rules-techniques-and-advice-for-all-drivers-and-riders-103-to-158]

      You should always make sure that other indications are there (road positioning, change of speed, etc.) before deciding that the flash is inviting you to pull out. They could be flashing at another road user, or have caught the control by mistake, or be flashing to warn you that you have just edged forward but they are coming through. In the same way, you should never assume that an indicator being on is saying "I will be turning here". They could be intending to take the next and be indicating too soon, or intending to pull over just after the junction. Again, it could be a mistake, too, leaving it on and it not auto-cancelling, or just caught by accident.

      It is up to you to judge what is happening, and signals cannot be relied upon. If that car had hit you, it would be 100% your fault.

      1. tiggity Silver badge

        Re: Wrong!

        quote: you should never assume that an indicator being on is saying "I will be turning here".

        Frankly even an erroneous use of indicator would be preferable to the usual zero use of indicator / use of indicator AFTER manoeuvre seen on UK roads

      2. Vic

        Re: Wrong!

        In the same way, you should never assume that an indicator being on is saying "I will be turning here"

        My motorcycle instructor had a awonderful piece of advice: "The orange signals on a car mean one thing and one thing only. The bulb is working at least half of the time".

        Vic.

        1. Dr. Mouse

          Re: Wrong!

          The bulb is working at least half of the time

          Love it!

          My motorcycle instructor, however, at one point threatened to hook the indicators up to electrodes attached to my nether region to remind me to cancel them... I don't have that issue any more, but it took a long time for me to get used to them not auto-cancelling like in a car.

          1. Vic

            Re: Wrong!

            it took a long time for me to get used to them not auto-cancelling like in a car.

            My bike still has auto-cancelling indicators. But as it's a Yammy, it's only a matter of time before they fail...

            Vic.

          2. Alan Brown Silver badge

            Re: Wrong!

            " it took a long time for me to get used to them not auto-cancelling like in a car."

            Just to add to your confusion, some bikes _do_ have autocancelling indicators.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Wrong!

          Couple of things:

          @big_D - yes the context and type of flashing is important and there is a difference between an invitational plink or two and someone treating you to a disco. There's also the distance someone is flashing you from...if they're further out than the usual 'invite zone' flasher then they're probably going fast.

          @Dr. Mouse - Not sure where you got all this junction stuff from...I was describing a very specific situation in motorway driving where the lorry is indicating to come out and a driver behind flashes them. Now mostly this is other lorry drivers letting you know that your trailer is clear and it's OK to go (because it's quite hard to tell where the end of your trailer is exactly in relation to other cars using the mirrors); and the signal has also been adopted by other high-mileage types. The flash has to come from the right place, at the right time and (as pointed out by bi_D) the right type of flash. If -on an otherwise empty road- someone treats me to a disco from two miles away, I'll assume it's big_D clogging it and stay where I am. There's a lot of context and a lot of variables. Also, I think you'll find that if someone rear-ends you then they are going to have a very hard time proving it wasn't their fault.

          It may all have changed anyway...I haven't been in a cab in years. The point was that it's a signal that German drivers in particular get wrong (or possibly they're the only ones reading the highway code and getting it right). There's a lot of (unofficial) stuff like this and it will (segueing smoothly back onto topic) have to be taken into account by people who are writing software to automate driving if they don't want to kill people. The easy way to deal with it would be to ignore it all completely and mandate a big illuminated sign on the back to inform other road users that the vehicle is on autopilot. That way, everyone will know what to expect.

          EDIT: Handing control to the driver if the software won't cope is OK for a test rig; but you can't have that for production...the software will have to make things safe (by stopping if necessary) first. Handing over control takes time; by which time, you've already had the accident.

          1. big_D Silver badge

            Re: Wrong!

            @moiety according to the Highway Code, the flashing of headlights only every means "I am here" it is a form of getting notice. The problem is, over the years it has come to mean other things.

          2. Dr. Mouse

            Re: Wrong!

            @moiety

            I will agree on the fact that there are many "unofficial" signals used on the road. My point was merely that relying on a driver, especially in another country, using those signals is dangerous. If I see someone flashing me out of a junction, or flashing to let me out/in on a motorway, I make sure there is some other cue that I have correctly understood: Changes of speed or direction, looking (if possible) at the driver's face, road positioning etc.

            I have seen the lorry "flash to let you know that you are clear" signal for pulling in or out. I can see it's benefits. But if a car was flying up the lane next to you and flashed at you, without slowing down or giving any other information, it would be rather silly to assume they were letting you in/out.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Wrong!

              The flashing thing - It is difficult to see in the mirrors exactly where the end of your trailer is in relation to other cars. You have a fair idea of how fast people are going; but it's -again- not exact. A lorry in the right place plinking their lights is a fairly unambiguous invitation. The signal has also been adopted by other road users and therein lies the problem.

              In practise and in heavy traffic it's a good thing...keeps things flowing because if you waited until you were definitely clear according to the mirrors it'd slow things down for everybody.

              There's a lot of intuition, context etc involved and there's a lot of things to be taken into account before making the manoeuvre but the reason I bought the point up is that if you get what looks like an invitation signal that ticks enough of the boxes to go and it turns out that it wasn't then it's a fair bet that it's a German car and you're on the M2. Everyone else blips their horn as an "Oi! I'm here" signal. It is a cultural difference and -as the company is German- I thought it was worth mentioning for that reason.

              P.S. I added a few 'e's in to the screeeetch sound effect for dramatic effect.

    4. launcap Silver badge

      German headlights..

      .. much hilarity is involved in using a UK-spec motorbike in Germany - the standard UK spec (used to be) that bikes with two headlights have both lights enabled on dip.

      In Germany, the standard is one light enabled on dip (for no obvious reason - logic kind of indicates that having both lit is safer as, if your bulb blows, you at least still have the other) with both lights only enabled on full beam.

      Que lots of flashing by oncoming drivers..

      1. big_D Silver badge

        Re: German headlights..

        @launcap the "logic" is that a motorbike's two headlights are very close together and a lot of people mistake a near-by motorbike for a car in the distance and thus pull out on them. Don't know if there is anything in it.

        But I never got flashed at when riding my VFR in Germany.

    5. Intractable Potsherd

      One of the things I look forward to is automated lorries *not* having to overtake each other (at least, not so often). My thoughts regarding lorry drivers who take miles to crawl past another truck on a busy dual carriageway are not entirely pleasant ...

      If the difference in speed is only 1-2mph, why overtake?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        If the difference in speed is only 1-2mph, why overtake?

        I can answer that - the answer is hills, load, limiters, and transport managers.

        Transport managers want you to get in the lorry, floor the accelerator and keep it there...if you stop off for a pack of cigarettes they will know it and (if it's that sort of firm) will bitch at you for it. "Get your time down or you're sacked", basically.

        Most lorries these days have limiters. In theory, these are all set at 56MPH (the optimal getting there vs.fuel consumption speed). In practice, they can be set at anything from 54 to 62 MPH (that I've driven...there could be even more extreme variations). This stops you from temporarily putting a burst of speed on to overtake quickly.

        Hills and load. Heavily-laden lorries will go fast downhill (especially if you bang in the clutch and disengage the limiter...bit naughty but sitting on motorway all day is fucking boring) and slow uphill. Lightly-laden lorries will do the opposite. And there's engine size too.

        All of the above means that you have a bunch of vehicles; all going almost (but not quite) the same speed; all of which are variously affected by inclines and all of which are motivated to go as fast as possible. So the heavily laden ones are going to grind up hills and whoosh down them and the lightly laden ones the opposite...these are inclines that you can't necessarily see or feel in a car. The combination of which leads to the situation as it is. It may be only 1-2 MPH; but that's 1-2 MPH all day (so you can't just sit there because transport managers) and it'll all change when the incline does anyway.

        Everyone involved has the pedal mashed to the floor...the rest is just physics.

  5. Christian Berger

    How that would be cool...

    except for the "Bundeswehr Universität München" having done pretty much the same thing in the 1980s.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    SF from 1974

    This is the start of what could happen as portrayed in 'Catalyst Run' by Jesse Miller (Analog May 1974)

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    All that's missing is road platoons

    This is clever if it's a new trick, but trains have been better at the same task for a long time. Also carriages and canal boats, but the upkeep on all those horses is high.

  8. Frank Bough

    Self driving trucks and cars

    Are just itching to be controlled by the govt rather than the owner. That's exactly where this shit is heading.

    1. dotdavid

      Re: Self driving trucks and cars

      You're right, it's a government conspiracy to take over DHL

      1. launcap Silver badge

        Re: Self driving trucks and cars

        > You're right, it's a government conspiracy to take over DHL

        At least DHL have some pretence at professionalism. Unlike other couriers I could mention (Yodel - from hells heart I stab at thee!)

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Aluminum foil covered footballs

    That's it.

  10. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

    Rush hour and breakdowns

    I can just imaging the scenario where multiple robo-lorries are on the motorway in rush hour and one in the slow lane "sees" a breakdown or accident ahead in the same lane. There no chance to pull out because lanes 2 and 3 are also full. So robo-lorries slows down and eventually comes to a halt. As do all the other robo-lorries behind it. It can't pull out because there is moving traffic passing continuously in the next lane.

    Now, think back to the cyclist incident with the Google robo-car where it couldn't tell if the cyclist, stopped but balancing, hence wobbling, so the Google robo-car refused to move.

    I have wondered if all these new motorway upgrades with concrete divider walls might have been designed with three divider walls so automated or semi-automated lorries could use them as "super guided bus" lanes, one lane in each direction with exits/entrances at junctions. The obvious problems are that joining or leaving lorries have to cross all the traffic lanes, Using the "slow" lane side would have joining/exiting cars having to cross the guided lorry lane. the upside is segregation of lorries and cars and minimal (if any!) AI needed for the trucks.

  11. hatti

    Looking forward to...

    ...The new drink and ride laws, Yaaaaaay, beers all round!

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