back to article HP boss hopes MS Surface Book will jack up notebook prices

HP Inc’s boss welcomed Microsoft’s foray into the high-end notebook market this week, if it helped vendors push up price tags across the board. However, Dell big wig Marius Haas gave a chillier welcome to the Microsoft Surface Book yesterday. Dell and HP announced last month that they would both resell Microsoft’s Surface …

  1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    The arrival of a high price-tag MS laptop isn't really going to have any effect on customers' budgets unless the boss spends a bit more on his so everybody else's is going to have to be a little bit cheaper. I'm not sure how that works out for HP.

    1. P. Lee

      > I'm not sure how that works out for HP.

      Does it compare with their 1040-G2?

      I'd like to see some top-end laptops with external PCIEx16 connectors (via a dock?) for gaming graphics and alternative NGFF boot drives. Then you can use your work laptop for personal use and play some decent games without sacrificing portability (due to a large battery) for work.

      Unlike an MBA, the 1040 has replaceable RAM and disks.

    2. jzl

      Maybe for you

      Where I work, I was given free reign to purchase whatever kit I wanted. No budget constraints.

      I got the Thinkpad T440s maxxed out and with a docking station. It was the best compromise between performance and portability at the time.

      If the Surface Book had been around then, I might have been tempted. Might still be next year.

      1. Frumious Bandersnatch
        Headmaster

        I was given free reign

        I think you'll find that it's "free rein". It's a horsey thing.

        (oh God, how many times have I had to explain that to someone?)

        1. jzl

          Re: I was given free reign

          Fair cop.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I think the play is: Instead of buying a PC laptop that sort of works and an iPad that sort or works, buy a Surface that works.

  2. RonWheeler

    Competing with Apple for poseur idiots

    High margin niche fashionista toys are of course tempting to sales bods. Yet Lenevo et al will continue to grow on sub £200 lappies like my S20. The big boys will wither and die in consumer land I reckon with their complacent unoriginal me-too products . .

    1. Richard Taylor 2

      Re: Competing with Apple for poseur idiots

      Well YMMV but we have consistently spent a reasonable amount of money on expensive laptops over the last 10 years based on their reported robustness. And I have to say that a few hundred quid here or there is pretty much irrelevant when compared to the loss/embarrassment of having a machine fail at the wrong time. At least for someone who relies on a reliable machine.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Thumb Up

      Re: Competing with Apple for poseur idiots

      Hello RonWheeler, can you post some images of the inside of your house and of your car? Given your comment, I'd be interested to see if you own anything nice at all or whether you've solved for cost everywhere in your life.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Coat

    Not for my age group

    Back in the seventies (maybe) they started making things from plastics wrapped and heat sealed around junk, I can't for the life of me remember what I first saw but the seaside and sand comes to mind.

    Every time I see that surface keyboard I am reminded of the chaff they sold at seaside toy shops, lasted about an hour then the welded seam came apart to show some grey cardboard, air or fluid most recent one was a Jessops negative binder in my loft, green, edge gone, cardboard visible.

    I could not bring myself to pay good money for anything that looks like it should split next week.

    That's just me, in case anyone wondered, not found a feedback form that asks that yet.

    Mines the one with "Everything went to pot after Bakalite" in the pocket.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Not for my age group

      Your nick is apt.

      The Surface Book, including the keyboard part, is made of magnesium. That's a metal, by the way.

      Too busy ranting to note that Surface Book != Surface Pro?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Not for my age group

        The Surface Book, including the keyboard part, is made of magnesium.

        Awesome. Sounds like it could be considered survival gear then.

        Also, you really, really don't want it to get too hot on your lap. ;)

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Not for my age group

          Also, you really, really don't want it to get too hot on your lap.

          Great Balls of Fire!

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Not for my age group

      So what age group is that you're speaking for?

      As a sixty something, I'm delighted to see Microsoft announcing modern well designed tablet and laptop nothing like that 70s junk.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Not for my age group

        The the first AC.

        I used the words "I see that surface keyboard" referring to the image above the article (did you spot that?), I wasn't referring to "post massive write-down because they didn't sell" versions.

        On the name I use, you see that is something Brits will probably understand, it's sort of self deprecating humour, saying "yes you are!" doesn't really hurt, can you see why?

        In turn I'd perhaps respond to your nick but the faceless coward thing makes it difficult, unless of course....no that would be cheap.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Personally, I hope it increases the number of laptops with a 3:2 screen ratio

    Far more sensible proportions for actually getting work done, than the 16:9 norm. Of course, 4:3 would be even better but 3:2 is a step in the right direction.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Personally, I hope it increases the number of laptops with a 3:2 screen ratio

      Agreed, sort of. Perhaps it will finally give pause to the OEMs who keep churning out the hopeless and unloved 16:9 laptop screens yet at the same time wondering while PC sales have declined while people hang on to them for longer.

      3:2 rules!

      But 4:3. Seriously? I spent 20 years using the blasted things with desktop PCs and wild horses wouldn't drag me back to such an uncomfortable shape.

    2. jzl

      Re: Personally, I hope it increases the number of laptops with a 3:2 screen ratio

      Depends on what you do.

      My experience as a developer is that 16:9 or 16:10 screens (I currently use 2560x1440 screens) are great because you get space at the side to dock your project explorer window and/or other tool windows.

      1. qwarty

        Re: Personally, I hope it increases the number of laptops with a 3:2 screen ratio

        Developer too. 16:10 works best for me - field of view on 16:9 just too wide at comfortable viewing distance and this seems to be the consensus opinion.

        For 2 in 1, 3:2 seems to hit the sweet spot for portrait and landscape modes. Its a mystery to me why most laptop manufacturers (except Apple) persist with the unloved 16:9.

      2. Kristian Walsh Silver badge

        Re: Personally, I hope it increases the number of laptops with a 3:2 screen ratio

        3:2 is a good point between the extra height of 4:3 and the width (for side-bar windows) of 16:10 or even 16:9. 16:9 is a little too wide, though, especially as every modern computer UI slices horizontal strips off the top and/or bottom of your screen and the windows displayed on that screen.

        But what I really, really liked about the choice of 3:2 for the Surface products is how close this is to the ISO A- and B-series paper ratios (which would be 2.828:2, expressed in the same terms as this display).

        (A 3:4 screen ratio only accommodates documents laid out for 11x8.5" paper, and even then only in one orientation)

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I think that in mature markets, where Corporations have been outsourcing work and wages have been stagnant for 30ish years, 40ish depending on where you are or what you do in the labour market, that expensive devices are not the way to go. The only thing that is increasing about that niche market is the niche(ness) of it.

    Stupid Corporate bean counters are killing their own markets for improved quarterly results and emerging markets. The thing is that the Governments of many of these emerging markets are much smarter than our Governments and won't let "outside" Corporations do what they are doing here.

    Interesting times ahead.

  6. BasicChimpTheory

    "a serious Macbook killer"

    Um, have you seen that MS thing?

    People don't buy Macbooks purely based on specs, yo. That thing is UGLY (and looks like it'd probably break in a backpack - sure, it probably won't but that IS how it looks).

  7. Shadow Systems

    They want to drive the price up...

    ...while folks have to decide on buying their next ~$600 SmartPhone, a ~$250 Tablet, a ~$1K "UltraBook", or a ~$2K mutant hybrid?

    Good thing there's Amazon & Ebay for the used market, buying new is leaving the realm of "Affordable" & zooming past LowEarthOrbit on a Titan Booster.

    It may be good for your corporate bottom line & your shareholders, but it absolutely sucks ass for John Q. Public whom needs a new machine but won't be able to afford one. Instead we'll buy either a lower spec & cheaper New-new one, or a comparitively kitted out USED-"new" one for a tenth the price. Your bottom line won't look so good if the bulk of the purchasing public decides you've just priced yourself out of their financial comfort zone.

  8. Hellcat

    FAO HP

    GTFO!

    Unless I'm reading this wrong it sounds like they're hoping to just jack up regular notebook prices because there's a higher top end of the market. Well screw you and the horse* you rode in on!

    *not available in all teritories.

  9. Erik4872

    Gives them something to shoot for

    Completely throw out the HP consumer-focused junk and look at their desktops and laptops (EliteBook, EliteDesk, etc.) They're aimed at corporate purchasers, who need a combination of (a) a decent warranty, (b) decent build quality, and (c) the ability to order thousands of the same machine for a defined period of time. I'd argue that these are the only machines HP makes any decent margin on, and a lot of that is probably eaten up by having to pay actual product design engineers, support the model for 18 months, and provide warranty service. This may be built into the price, but the constant cost pressure gives them very little room to do anything interesting with these machines. I think that, beyond the "we want more margin" mindset, they're looking to higher-priced machines to give HP some wiggle room to engineer something really cool that customers will want to buy. Otherwise, it'll continue to be a constant fight with the product engineers and product managers over the cost of screwing in components vs. gluing them in, using crap plastic instead of a sturdy metal frame, or skimping on component quality to save a few cents per unit.

    Our group buys lots of HP machines and to be quite honest, we see this constant cost cutting in each new generation. You could argue they're responding to the "throwaway appliance" market, but customers will start looking elsewhere when your build quality drops far enough and your price is still a premium one.

    1. Robert E A Harvey

      Re: Gives them something to shoot for

      Not just HP.

      $MEGACORP buys Fujitsu laptops, partly because of the built in smart card reader. The latest generation has a plastic spring to press the contacts together, rather than the previous metal one. Mine broke in days, and the Fujitsu response was to withdraw the warranty on the whole machine because of mishandling. I have been using a USB reader ever since.

  10. BinTherDunThat

    Our village is being bombed by Microsoft, so they can save us

    Microsoft has been throwing up their hands in frustration over the lack of innovation and quality from their OEM/ODM distributors in one segment after another, and deciding to be the OEM themselves. Only a truly desperate and dying OEM would try to spin that as good news for them. At least the execs at Dell are being honest about it. It's nice that they're now free to be honest, since Dell Has no reason to try to delude Wall Street any more.

  11. Robert E A Harvey

    Oh for glods sake

    Look HP (and Dell etc.) You, yes YOU could have jacked up prices if you had jacked up the product. But no, you still churn out low end scrap with screen resolutions below 1080 lines and expected me to drool over it. With low end CPUs to squeeze up the battery life when I needed processing grunt.

    If YOU had made a decent product, I would have bought it from you 4 years ago, and probably replaced it this year. But you didn't. So bugger you.

    1. Arctic fox
      Windows

      Re: "Oh for glods sake" Indeed. Their attitude seems to be..........

      ........"we won't/don't want to build seriously good/imaginative premium kit and we certainly don't want anyone else to do so either!"

  12. bobgameon

    If you build it, they will come

    A jack in prices wouldn't be unwelcome if the quality of the product goes up with it. If HP actually thinks they can sell those plastics toys they have at the price of a premium notebook they are kidding themselves. The surface book, even though expensive, might actually get these OEMs to up their game and build better quality products which people wont mind paying a premium price for.

    On the other hand if they actually think they can justify raising prices of their current laptops by pointing at microsoft as an example they are mistaken.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    creating excitement in that segment is good

    yawn

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