back to article Apple supremo Tim Cook rules out OS X fondleslab, iOS merger

Apple CEO Tim Cook is telling customers not to expect a Mac answer to the Microsoft Surface Pro any time soon. The Apple boss said in an interview with Ireland's Independent that the Cupertino giant has no desire to merge its iOS mobile operating system and its Macintosh desktop and notebook lines with a "hybrid" tablet that …

  1. Will Godfrey Silver badge
    Alert

    Stunning

    I find myself also in total agreement.

    I am now waiting for the sky to fall.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Stunning

      But on past history this just means that the converged device will appear 18 months after Cook leaves the company.

      During my management training, one of our lecturers remarked that a well known success strategy when taking on a new job is to find something to which your predecessor was absolutely committed, and do the opposite.

      So many people were pissed off by the old manager that they will be determined to prove you are right. You then just surf to success.

      1. Ian Joyner Bronze badge

        Re: Stunning

        "success strategy when taking on a new job is to find something to which your predecessor was absolutely committed, and do the opposite."

        Sounds like a hit and miss recipe for failure to me. Necessary first step - analyse what predecessor was doing right and what doing wrong.

        Keep doing the right thing, and stop doing the wrong thing. No wonder I don't think much of management schools - get a skill first, then do management.

        Apple's strategy is for two reasons - it's better for the user - tailor the devices to the mobile, hand-held sector, and desktop machines to be more fully featured for all those extra things you'd do at a desk. That keeps their tools sharp, rather than the blunt instrument Windows is.

        Secondly, technically, a cut down OS to support just those mobile things will make use of resources better - especially the battery resource.

  2. PJF
    Trollface

    Ohh, did ya hita nerve?!?

    "For some reason, that tour did not include a sit-down with El Reg, perhaps because of this, this, this, or this"

    ...and that, maybe/also this.

    Does Cook-n-Co. think that El-Reg will just wither up n die? Naa, just a thorn in its side.

    O.T. - Haven't touched the fruit since the ][c in AP class in grade school, BUT, they do make sense to keep the 2 O/S's different/apart.

    DISCLAIMER : I do have several Android based tablets, a Chrome book or two, several M.S. based O/S machines (up to, and including "X") and A playbook. I still can't fathom why you would want your phone to act like your tablet to act like your lap top to act like your desk top to act like your server to crash/be un-secure as your "free" phone (w/a a 2+ year, non-negotiable, non-updatable, termination fee applicable).

  3. Sebby

    Only Half The Story

    He's right, combining the two form factors is very silly.

    But I bet you will still end up with one large Apple device anyway, and it will be the one running iOS, on account of OS X being slowly and carefully deprecated through sheer neglect, and iOS slowly being improved to add the necessary keyboard support and other niceties of a productive work environment, until nobody wants or needs a Mac anymore (except those with discerning hardware tastes and/or a continued need to run Mac OS).

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Only Half The Story

      In what way is OS X being "slowly and carefully deprecated through sheer neglect?" What things are being added to Windows that OS X is not getting but sorely needs? Or what things that Windows isn't getting that you think OS X should be getting? Or are you just looking for change for the sake of change, like how Windows gets a major UI makeover with almost every release?

      Mac sales are growing even as PC sales are dropping by nearly double digit percentages. Apple is now the 4th largest PC maker in the world by volume, and number one by revenue. In the US market, the Mac now makes more revenue than all Windows laptops/desktops combined. If you think OS X is being neglected, there are a lot of people voting with their wallets who disagree with you.

      1. James Micallef Silver badge

        Re: Only Half The Story

        "In what way is OS X being "slowly and carefully deprecated through sheer neglect?" "

        It IS true that in the last 2 major updates of OSX, the only significant features were to either improve iOS integration, or to deprecate an OSX App (iPhoto) in favour of an iOS App (Photo). However I think the reason isn't so much that OSX is being neglected, as that OSX is already a full-feature OS, what more can you really add to it??

        I agree that iOS will continue to gain features (multitasking, anyone?) until it reaches a stage where for 80% of people who ever need to use any computing device, iOS will be sufficient. at that point you can have an iOS-based phone, tablet or laptop/tablet hybrid without ever needing to touch OSX.

        But what Cook is probably saying here is that there will always be a separate OSX for 'serious' users

    2. Mage Silver badge

      Re: Only Half The Story

      Follow the revenue.

      There won't be a hybrid product running OS X.

  4. David Austin

    Mostly Agree, but...

    Microsoft aptly proved with Windows 8 that a unified ecosystem - let alone an interface - for a Phone, Tablet, and a desktop is not easy to get right.

    Their Windows 10 idea of the same Dev tools and binaries that adapt to the environment they're running on (Continuum) seems a better approach.

    I think Apple's way of doing it (Write the best desktop software, and the best mobile software you can) is a better idea still: Although the gap between what we use a tablet and what we use a computer for is closing all the time, they're sufficiently different still to make a unified system a little awkward - I can see them merging some point waaaay down the line, but here in 2015, it seems a lot of pain for not much gain.

    What may be beneficial (And correct me if it's already there and I missed it) is an end-user ready Emulation or shimmy to allow you to iOS Apps on OSX - yes, most people won't have a touchscreen, but I can think of quite a few apps and games where the iOS Version would be a great fit for the desktop environment, and it a nice way to get more value out of your apps, and possibly a few easy sales for the developers.

  5. Drew 11

    They've already destroyed OSX by dumbing it down to the iOS level. Last decent version of OSX was 10.6.8

    Ever since then they've been busy turning great computers into giant iPhones. Safari used to have control of cookies down to the singular level, then they changed it so you could only delete all cookies for a particular website and you couldn't go in and see what each cookie had stored inside.

    Fuckers.

    I guess it's one way to force your users over to Linux.

    1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      There's a simple solution to the Safari problem: don't use it.

      Apple hasn't go everything right since Snow Leopard but it hasn't all been about convergence since then: ignore ITunes shittyness and the OS has got some TLC.

    2. JLV

      Speak for yourself. Asides from their unfortunate tendency to constantly meddle with iTunes, Macs are pretty stable in terms of user GUI. Nothing like cough, cough, Win 7 => Win 8 => Win 10 and nothing like the iOS-ification you talk of.

      I avoid Safari like the plague and spend most of my time on my text editor, Firefox or in bash. From that POV, there has been little change up to 10.9 and that's just the way I like it. I expect El Capitan will be more of the same, after I wait for the next release of it to solidify. Spaces went somewhere, maybe, but nothing that a tabbed iTerm or terminal doesn't cover.

      Far as Linux goes, with a suitably tricked up set of command line programs brought in through Ports (could have been HomeBrew too), I have a hard time telling my bash sessions apart between my Mac and Ubuntu VMs. And that again is just the way I like it.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    OSX is just too far behind Windows

    The problem for iFans is the OS. The chip argument is a red herring; there are plenty of tablets with Intel x86 inside. Most of them run off the shelf Windows - 7, 8, 8.1, or 10.

    The problem is that Apple is years (and in some cases over a decade) behind Microsoft in supporting touch/stylus in their big boy OS. In 2002, Windows XP Tablet Edition was released supporting stylus (this was before 5 years before the iPhone's capacitive touch screen) input and navigation, on screen keyboards, handwriting recognition, and pressure sensitive drawing (aslo speech recognition - sorry Siri). These were incorporated in standard Windows with Vista, which also added touch support. Win7 added multitouch. Win8 added a touch friendly interface. Win10 is trying to merge Win8 modern and Win7 desktop.

    OSX has almost nothing from the iOS touch or pencil world anywhere in the OS. Windows has everything from iOS or Android, touch or stylus, baked into the deepest levels of their OS. I don't know of a Win tablet with a capacitive screen that measures pressure (aka force touch) but if one is made Windows could support it.

    So Cook is baked into a corner. The OSX world is not popular or profitable enough to justify development of touch/stylus APIs or hardware. Cook's statement “I think if you’re looking at a PC, why would you buy a PC anymore? No really, why would you buy one?” is the death knell for Macs, no matter how he's hedged since.

    1. hitmouse

      Re: OSX is just too far behind Windows

      " I don't know of a Win tablet with a capacitive screen that measures pressure (aka force touch) but if one is made Windows could support it."

      The first Windows tablets released with Windows XP SP1 by NEC, Acer, Motion Computing etc etc had 256 levels of pressure reading. If you use the Windows Journal application released at the time (Tools > Options > Pen and Highlighter Settings) you can set pressure-sensitivity on or off. I favour using it on with the Chisel point pen so that you get variable thickness in your hand-writing.

      More information here: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms703290(v=vs.85).aspx

    2. A Non e-mouse Silver badge

      Re: OSX is just too far behind Windows

      The problem is that Apple is years (and in some cases over a decade) behind Microsoft in supporting touch/stylus in their big boy OS

      May I humbly suggest a reason Apple don't support a touch interface in MacOS? 'Cause it's a stupid idea! MacOS (and Windows) were both designed for mouse & keyboard input. This is the reason why Windows XP tablets with just touch interface never really worked as a mainstream idea.

      Look at what Microsoft have done: They've actually gone the other way and put their touch interface onto their desktop & server products. See how well that went done? What idiot thought you'd have a touch interface on a server?

      Tim & El Reg are both right: A mobile phone and a tablet have different user interface requirements to a laptop, desktop or server.

      1. hitmouse

        Re: OSX is just too far behind Windows

        "MacOS (and Windows) were both designed for mouse & keyboard input." So you're going to rule out all forms of natural input forever?

        For those of us who use computers for diagrams, music and other non-text-based endeavours, having touch/stylus + speech etc interfaces are essential additional tools.

        "What idiot thought you'd have a touch interface on a server?" Lemme see, someone managing media with a push-button interface or otherwise "naturalistic" interface.

        Can we please get more commentary from people not stuck in a 1970s mindset?

    3. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Re: OSX is just too far behind Windows

      Eh? OS X has already been hacked onto the Surface Pro 3, including the touchscreen.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kws-AhEgcbw

      It's just a case of why would you want to? I'd hope that OS X were not sent down the same path as Windows 8 or 10 and so far Apple don't seem inclined to do that, thank $DIETY.

    4. a53

      Re: OSX is just too far behind Windows

      Which is why Apple is so profitable and MS only just. Were it not for the fact that, like the world got its arm twisted into buying the vastly inferior VHS instead of Beta-max, the corporate world latched on to Windows et al. Originally it was almost certainly a great product and ahead of its time, now it has too many Trojans, bloat, the list is endless and I won't repeat it. That is the only part of MS that turns enough revenue to keep the rest afloat.

      Apple products, with the exception of the iPad make humongous amounts of money. Actually, iPad do too, just not as much. How much profit does MS make in excess of Apple' profits ? Oh, that's right, they don't. Apple have their faults, who doesn't. Making what customers want is not one of them.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: OSX is just too far behind Windows

        There are many reasons why Apple is successful.

        Tight integration simplifies software and hardware development.

        Small product range simplifies buying decisions.

        Extensive focussed marketing, to schools, universities and the upper middle classes, has created a perception that here is an American company and buying its products tells other people that you are successful.

        The products are good enough that the marketing is not undermined by obvious problems.

        Product design concentrates on providing a minimalistic and consistent look and feel that is inoffensive and doesn't put people off. It plays well with US corporate and public design which tends to be unadventurous and bland.

        Success outside the US rides on US soft power and perception in many countries that goods of US origin are superior.

        I'm not qualified to comment on whether the best Windows laptops and Android phones are better than, or better value for money than, Apple products. But I think it is easy to see why Apple has been successful. Of course some of this is hindsight. I think it's clear, though, that when Apple have found something that works they have exploited it ruthlessly, successfully and with focus. Microsoft, Google and Samsung are masters of the "throw everything at the wall and spend more money on what sticks."

    5. Nameless Faceless Computer User

      Re: OSX is just too far behind Windows

      A touch screen looks like a mouse to the OS. I'm pretty sure OS X can interface with a mouse.

      Since when does Apple listen to consumers? They've always driven demand, not met it. Sometimes it works out for them. Sometimes not.

      1. A Non e-mouse Silver badge

        @Nameless Faceless Computer User - Re: OSX is just too far behind Windows

        A touch screen looks like a mouse to the OS.

        At a basic level, a touch screen isn't too different to a mouse. Both can report a press at a specific (x,y) co-ordinate pair.

        The issue is that with a mouse, you can click on an exact pixel on the screen. With touch, you click an area. If your finger presses a circle of diameter 10 pixels, but you need 2 or three pixel accuracy, it's never going to work.

        This was the downfall of touch on Windows XP: You still needed the same pixel perfect precision but achieved with your finger. Sure, you could use a stylus, but it was still hard to do. (I know there are accessibility options to make the hot-spots bigger, but you're still trying to put a square peg in a round hole)

    6. TheOtherHobbes

      Re: OSX is just too far behind Windows

      >So Cook is baked into a corner.

      At least he didn't paint himself into a kitchen.

      Unlike Microsoft, at least Apple knows how to English.

    7. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: OSX is just too far behind Windows

      hitmouse - we've seen pressure sensitive digitizers (stylus based) since XP but I don't know of a pressure sensitive capacitive (touch based) screen.

      a non e-mouse - some things work better with touch, some things don't (which can be said for ALL input methods. Think of a laptop's trackpad - you don't need it (you can navigate with just a keyboard) and it's just a touch screen without a display. As such you can move the cursor and select and that's useful, as far as it goes. But put the touch sensor on the screen and you have one touch access to icons and links and one swipe access to scrolling. It's an added option which, in some cases, is the best option.

      theotherhobbes - if Tim's last name was Picasso, I would have used painted. You play with the words you are given.

    8. TheJokker

      Re: OSX is just too far behind Windows

      You are exactly right. History is repeating itself...

    9. Ian Joyner Bronze badge

      Re: OSX is just too far behind Windows

      So many errors in this post makes me wonder what alternative reality you are living in?

  7. TimCooksaysWhat

    Apple OSX2 Moonbeam 2017

    Look into it and you will see.

    Apple OSX2 Moonbeam 2017 WWDC.

    I know it, Apple knows it, and now you know it.

    you heard it hear first.

    1. hitmouse

      Re: Apple OSX2 Moonbeam 2017

      They've been selling moonshine for decades.

  8. chivo243 Silver badge
    Meh

    Keep looking at the iBlilng

    You won't even hardly notice when the two merge. I don't think an all in one device will happen, or connectable devices will happen, but the the lines between UI's be morph into one "experience" iCloud is already making us oblivious to this.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Not magical or game-changing then?

    Now it's been officially denied, when do we reckon the iPad Pro will ship with a merged iOS X?

    What with the oompa-loompas merging Android and Chrome OS, it's looking like MSFT is being proved visionary in running a single core OS across all platforms!

    1. Mage Silver badge

      Re: Not magical or game-changing then?

      Now it's been officially denied, when do we reckon the iPad Pro will ship with iOS X?

      Never. iOS is an ecosystem that makes more Revenue and gives Apple more control. The question is will there be a laptop with iOS?

  10. The Vociferous Time Waster

    Ha

    Microsoft has always tried to squeeze their PC into the form factor of a tablet while Apple just scaled up the iPod touch into the form factor of a tablet. See which one won.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Ha

      The Surface Pro

      1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

        Re: Ha

        Really?

        Lets wait for the new year and the sales figures for the iPad Pro to come in. Then we can compare it to the Surface Pro & Surface book.

        As I understand it, the MS offerings seem to be a tad more expensive that the Apple ones. does this make Apple no longer the most expensive toy on the block? Oh how the mighty have fallen eh? (tongue firmly in onces cheek here)

        1. Steve Todd

          Re: Ha

          What's more the benchmarks put the iPad pro ahead of the i3 based Surface 4 machines, for less money even, and with higher video performance even though they are higher resolution.

  11. msknight

    Tap, tap...

    Hello? Hello? Paging Mr Shuttleworth. Paging Mr Shuttleworth....

  12. Andy E

    Hang on a min...

    I've been using MacBook Pro's for years and we also have an iPad knocking about that gets a lot of use. However, my daughter recently got a Surface Pro 3 for her collage work and I have to admit it's a nice bit of kit. Yes, to use it for serious work you need a keyboard and mouse but nevertheless you can use it. With the add ons it cost somewhere between the top end iPad and a MacBook Pro.

    I don't think it's the final solution for a portable computer though as you need to take a keyboard and mouse with you. We need different input methods which are at least as efficient as the keyboard and mouse but don't need any additional kit for that to happen.

    1. A Non e-mouse Silver badge

      Re: Hang on a min...

      Exactly! I have both a tablet and a laptop. They have different usage sweet spots. The tablet is great for some simple browsing, basic email handling and some simple games (Simple games are all I can manage!). The laptop is when I want to do more typing (e.g. longer emails) or a more seamless multitasking. (e.g. SSHing into a server with a manual open in the background.)

      There is no such thing as "one size fits all".

    2. Quortney Fortensplibe
      Trollface

      Re: Hang on a min...

      "...my daughter recently got a Surface Pro 3 for her collage work..."

      Isn't that a bit of overkill? She could just use paper and a pot of glue.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Way the Cooki crumples

    Tim surely would rather sell you two or even three completely separate products for sure fire profits.

    'Just look how I kept the suckers off phablets for so long' did not say Tim.

  14. Geoff Campbell Silver badge
    Go

    Interesting

    Apple, remember, is the company that swore blind they would never produce a phone bigger than 3.5".

    I've just bought a Surface Pro 4. It has allowed me to clear out of my briefcase:

    A laptop

    An 8" tablet

    An A4 pad

    Three pens

    Sundry laptop add-ons

    A USB charger (there's one integrated with the SP4 PSU)

    It's a very, very nice device, and Microsoft are to be commended for having usefully combined the tablet (for referring to stuff in meetings), the notepad (for jotting stuff down), and the laptop (for proper long-form writing/spreadsheets/etc. on the move).

    In fact, if I hadn't just upgraded my desktop, I might also be tempted to buy a docking station and use it for that, too.

    About the only thing that will stop it sweeping the market is the price, I think. Fine as a business tool for those who move around a lot, but too expensive for the mass market. It will be very interesting to see how the sales stack up against the iPad Pro in 12 months time.

    GJC

    1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

      Re: Interesting

      The downside is ( or upside depending upon your POV) is that it runs Windows 10.

      What were the sundry laptop addons btw? Might they (or similar) not find a use for the Surface?

      1. Geoff Campbell Silver badge

        Re: Interesting

        I like Windows 10. Yes, I know, I'm weird like that...

        The add-ons were nothing exciting - Bluetooth headset, webcam, external microphone, and a mouse. That latter might come back into the fold, but the touchpad on the SP4 is much nicer than the one on my Asus laptop, so it might not.

        GJC

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