* Posts by Ciaran McHale

107 publicly visible posts • joined 25 Jul 2007

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MIPS snags top SiFive brains to amp up RISC-V business

Ciaran McHale

Re: World’s Most Popular CPU Architectures

A few months ago I read a concise and excellent book called "The RISC-V Reader: An Open Architecture Atlas". About half the book's contents discuss the RISC-V instruction set and provide examples of use, while the other half is of the form "Previous generations of CPU architectures did [such-and-such] which history has shown to be useful so RISC-V embodies those ideas, but previous generations of CPU architectures also did [something else] which history has shown to not be useful, so RISC-V avoids those mistakes." For better or worse, the two different kinds of contents are inter-mingled in each chapter of the book (I found that inter-mingling to be useful, but not everyone will). The main takeaway I got from the book is that the RISC-V architecture is as elegant as it is because its designers "stood on the shoulders of giants before them to see farther". That, combined with RISC-V being a much newer architecture than x86 or ARM means that RISC-V contains several orders of magnitude fewer instructions than those other CPU architectures.

Of course, a product being elegant is rarely enough to help it compete against the incumbent market leaders. But a few other characteristics of RISC-V do help in that regard.

First, the RISC-V specification is open-source, so this helps to drive down costs, which matters to a company that makes, say, a USB/Bluetooth keyboard that needs a tiny embedded CPU and sells in a market with competing keyboards priced from as little as £5.00.

Second, the RISC-V specification contains just 47 required instructions, and all other instructions are optional but packaged into logical groups (e.g., integer multiplication and division, floating point instructions, bit manipulation instructions, vector instructions and so on). It is possible to implement a 32-bit RISC-V CPU for the minimal required instruction set in just a few tens of thousands of transistors, and this can increase yield rates from silicon wafers, thus resulting in a very low manufacturing cost, while still giving developers of embedded systems a modern, clean 32-bit instruction set to work with. At the other extreme, it is expected that a 64-bit RISC-V CPU with all the optional instructions, lots of CPU-internal parallelism (out-of-order execution, superscaler and other buzz words), and tons of on-board cache could be implemented with many billions of transistors so it can compete against powerful ARM/x86 CPUs in server machines.

Third, because the RISC-V architecture is new, lean and does not carry the same backwards-compatible baggage as ARM/x86, it looks like a RISC-V CPU might use less electrical power as an ARM/x86 CPU that provides similar performance. This electrical power efficiency will help RISC-V not just in the embedded systems market, but also in the data centre and supercomputer markets, where managing heat build up is a big concern.

My interest in RISC-V is that I want to buy a development board so I can ensure some (to be) open-source software I am writing will work well on RISC-V. From what I have seen, it looks like RISC-V manufacturers are taking a bottom-up approach to the CPU marketplace. They are initially attacking the low-cost embedded systems market, and are slowly moving up towards more powerful CPUs. The last time I checked (a few months ago), the most powerful RISC-V CPUs were 4-core devices that were approximately as powerful as a Raspberry Pi 4, but one manufacturer was setting a motherboard with with many such CPUs to provide a total of (if I remember correctly) 64 cores. A year earlier, the most powerful RISC-V CPU I saw was only half as powerful as a Raspberry Pi 4, so doubling performance in just 1 year shows progress is being made. I assume it will take a few years before we start seeing desktop-grade RISC-V CPUs, but already having some companies developing multi-socket motherboards suggests there won't be a significant delay between desktop- and server-grade RISC-V.

RIP: Software design pioneer and Pascal creator Niklaus Wirth

Ciaran McHale

Re: ALGOL 68 Blew My Mind

Donald Knuth wrote an interesting-but-dated (and hence of historical significance) book called "Literate Programming". The book was a collection of essays, some of which had been written a few years before I did my undergraduate degree in university. One of those "just before my time" essays discussed competing proposals for the syntax of looping constructs, such as while loops, do-while loops, repeat-until loops, and a few more. Some of these variations I remembered being taught in university, while other ones seemed strange because I had never encountered them before, but reading about them made me realise that much of what we take for granted in programming might seem obvious in hindsight but had been hotly contested when first proposed.

Ciaran McHale

WIrth's insightful comment's on Pascal's importance and shortcomings

In the 1990s when I was a graduate student at university, the departmental library had a collection of technical journals and conference proceedings. My vague recollection is that the most interesting conference was a once-every-five-years one called "History of Programming Languages" and it contained papers written by the designers of programming languages. I found it fascinating to read such papers about various languages I knew, including Forth and Pascal. If my memory serves me correctly, the Pascal paper contained a few insightful comments, such as...

Pascal did not invent the concept of structured programming, but it was the first widely popular language to support structured programming, and this popularity was largely due to the Pascal compiler (which compiled into bytecode) and the bytecode interpreter being small enough to fit into the limited memory available in computers of the time. The original intention was that the use of bytecode would serve as a stepping stone to help somebody port Pascal onto a new computer architecture, and it was expected that whoever was doing such a port would then implement a bytecode-to-machine-code translator to improve execution speed, but the bytecode interpreter ran fast enough that the bytecode-to-machine-code translator was rarely implemented.

Wirth acknowledged that although Pascal had introduced many programmers to the concept of structured programming, the language contained some limitations/deficiencies that were addressed by newer programming languages, and hence he said (from memory): "Pascal set new standards that it could not live up to". That comment gave me an important insight into the "C is better than Pascal (or vice versa)" arguments of my classmates during my undergraduate days. More importantly, it gave me a useful mindset for doing a critical analysis of any new technology that comes along: acknowledge the ways in which it is better (perhaps 10x better) than predecessors, while being aware of the possibility that the new technology might contain significant shortcomings.

I fell into the camp of not liking the programming languages that Niklaus Wirth invented, but that never stopped be from appreciating his significant contributions.

Look ma, no fans: Mini PC boasts slimline solid-state active cooling system

Ciaran McHale

Re: Counter productive

I recommend doing cloud-based computing, because the tiny water droplets provide an effective, and environmentally friendly, cooling mechanism.

Elon Musk's ambitions for Starship soar high while reality waits on launchpad

Ciaran McHale

Re: A brief look back

Elon Musk owned two Roadsters. One was with an early VIN number, I think the one that Martin Eberhard wanted. The other Roadster was a later, improved model. It was that later-model Roadster that was sent into Space.

The ability to cut costs dramatically by reusing rockets is important not just for Starlink, but also to help SpaceX provide lower prices to customers for getting cargo into Orbit, and eventually for Elon's so-ambitious-it-seems-impossible goal of establishing a colony on Mars. As an example of lowering costs, a US Air Force general claimed that SpaceX has saved the US government $40 billion (source: https://spacenews.com/nelson-criticizes-plague-of-cost-plus-nasa-contracts/).

As for your claim that there isn't a big demand for rocket launches... SpaceX's launch rate has been growing exponentially over the past few years, and it now accounts for 80% of the worldwide cargo being sent into orbit.

Ciaran McHale

Re: A brief look back

According to a senior figure, SpaceX's ability to provide significantly lower cost (than competitors) for its services has saved the US government $40 billion: https://spacenews.com/nelson-criticizes-plague-of-cost-plus-nasa-contracts/

Waymo robo-car slays dog in San Francisco

Ciaran McHale

"Thanks for writing lots of words that have nothing to do with answering my question." The wording of your question contained an assumption that there was an existing (rather than future) requirement for lots of battery recycling. My answer explained how that assumption was incorrect. I then went on to mention Redwood Materials and Tesla as two examples of companies currently engaged in battery recycling. So, yes, I did answer your question.

You claim that Tesla does not have an in-house battery recycling facility, because "This is not advertised as an option anywhere on their website."

An internet search for "tesla battery recycling" yielded this as the first search result: https://www.tesla.com/support/sustainability-recycling

You dismiss Redwood Materials as being akin to a "promise lots but deliver nothing" kickstarter campaign. I found the following in the first page of results for an internet search for "how much batteries does redwood materials recycle", and each of them refute your baseless assumption:

https://www.energy-storage.news/redwood-materials-already-gets-6gwh-of-lithium-batteries-per-year-for-recycling/

https://eepower.com/news/redwood-materials-recycles-500k-pounds-of-ev-batteries

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redwood_Materials,_Inc.

Your behaviour in this thread of discussion suggests you want to engage in a "I'm right and you're wrong" argument rather than a "let's ask questions and share information so one or both of us might learn" discussion. Such behaviour reflects badly on you.

Ciaran McHale

You are being disingenuous by pointing out that the environmental cost of mining to produce car batteries, but not comparing that to the environmental cost of drilling for, and refining oil, for the entire lifetime of running a car.

Also, what makes you think the CO2 cost of mining and refining to make a battery pack is not included in the 6,500 miles breakeven figure on page 57 of the report?

Ciaran McHale

I didn't write that EVs result in *no* pollution; merely that they result in *less* pollution.

Gas cars produce pollution where they are being used. In contrast, electric cars don't (technically, wear and tear on the types produces a tiny amount of pollution, but there is no tail pipe pollution caused). As for pollution to produce electricity to run EVs... Even if such electricity is produced by burning coal (the dirtiest form of power station fuel), there will still be less pollution to make electricity for an EV to travel, say, 100 miles than for a gas car to travel the same distance. As the world slowly-but-exponentially moves towards sustainable energy (solar/wind power plus grid scale battery storage), the amount of pollution from generating electricity to power EVs decreases, so existing EVs will get greener over time.

There are some tentative moves to power some mining industry-related equipment by electricity rather than diesel (sorry, I don't have any sources to hand), so pollution from mining will decrease over time.

One of the traditional auto makers (I *think* it was Volvo, but my memory is hazy) compared the CO2 emissions for making a gas car plus the electric version of the same car. They reported that the CO2 emissions were (if memory serves me right) about 70% higher for the EV, and it would take about 70,000 miles of driving to reach a breakeven point on CO2 emissions. However, Tesla has been optimizing its manufacturing process for many years and claims the CO2 breakeven point for a Tesla Model 3 will be reached after only 6,500 miles (about 7 months for an average driver). You can see this claim on page 57 of Tesla's "Impact Report 2021", which you can find easily via an internet search.

As for recycling EV batteries... Because the battery in a smart phone lasts only 2 or 3 years, many people assumed the same would be true of EV batteries. However, historical data shows EV batteries can be expected to have a lifetime of 10+ years (Tesla claims 15+ years). And because there was a relatively small number of EVs being manufactured 10 years ago, today there are relatively few end-of-life EV batteries for recycling. However, I know that Tesla has its own in-house recycling capability for Tesla batteries, and JB Straubel (one of the co-founders of Tesla) started a battery recycling company called Redwood Materials a few years ago. Redwood recycles batteries from all brands of EVs and other devices (smartphones, laptops and so on). The company claims to be able to recycle about 95% of battery materials, and has been up-and-running for a few years in America. Battery recycling isn't a big interest of mine, so I don't recall the names and locations of other battery recycling companies.

The amount of mining and environmental destruction caused by a sustainable energy+transport society will be much smaller than that of a fossil-fuel based society. The first half hour of presentations in Tesla's Investor Day discuss this (search for "Tesla 2023 Investor Day" on YouTube). A few weeks after that event, Tesla released a white paper that provides details to support its thesis. You can find this paper at https://www.tesla.com/ns_videos/Tesla-Master-Plan-Part-3.pdf. In addition, if you do a search for "Tesla Impact Report 2021" and "Tesla Impact Report 2022", you will find additional details.

But before getting bogged down in reading lots of documents, I suggest you watch the following 13-minute video, which I think does a good job of discussing the relative amounts of pollution caused by gas and electric cars: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk-LnUYEXuM&t=96s

Ciaran McHale

I agree. The "floating" challenge can be easily met by making the cars amphibious and filling the 10 feet below the cars with water.

Ciaran McHale

You are referring to Jevons Paradox (when you make things easier or more economical/efficient to use, then usage of the thing will increase). However, although it might be theoretically possible to have a gas-powered robotaxi, in practice research in this area favours the use of electric vehicles for robotaxis, which means less pollution rather than more.

Ciaran McHale

Re: In the UK, this would be criminal

You are conflating (1) the use of autonomous vehicles with (2) speed limits that are too high to be safe, and are making the mistake of blaming (1) when instead you should be blaming (2).

Ciaran McHale

Re: This is pretty terrible news

A two-year-old has found a novel solution to the trolley problem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N_RZJUAQY4

Starlink bags US defense contract to keep war-torn Ukraine connected

Ciaran McHale

Re: Cost?

You are wasting everybody's time by rudely (and homophobically) dismissing opposing views as worthless without providing any counter arguments/evidence.

Ciaran McHale

Re: Cost?

You dismiss what I wrote out of hand, and provide not a single bit of evidence to back up your dismissal. Doing that reflects badly on you. No wonder you chose to post anonymously.

Ciaran McHale

Re: Cost?

I don't have a full answer to your question, but the little I know is that there are at least two issues at work. First, Ukraine's need for Starlink terminals grew as the war dragged on. Second, SpaceX sells the Starlink terminals at a loss (I vaguely recall that it costs a few thousand dollars to make each terminal and the terminal is sold for about $500) and then hopes to recoup that loss over the next few years via the monthly subscription (in much the same way that you can get an expensive mobile phone for a below-market price as long as you sign up for an 18-month contract). Unfortunately, a lot of the sold-at-a-loss Starlink terminals were destroyed within a few weeks/months due to, say, bombs or bullets and, naturally, Ukraine wanted SpaceX to provide (free) replacements for those destroyed terminals.

My *guess* (based on a single article I vaguely recall reading) is that there is a third issue at play. SpaceX charges a relatively small amount ($120/month if I remember correctly) for a Starlink terminal that will be used by a small group of people, e.g., a family, and a significantly larger amount of money ($2500/month or something like that) for a Starlink terminal that will be used by a larger organization. My guess is that initially there were mostly $120/month subscriptions being provided and each of these was being used by a small group of soldiers; but over time Ukraine realized they could deploy one Starlink terminal plus some sort of "internet router to mobile phone mast" device in a large military compound or in a village, so that hundreds/thousands of people could get mobile phone signals and internet access from a single Starlink terminal. That larger-scale use is what the $2500/month subscription fee is for.

Ciaran McHale

No good deed goes unpunished

"Now it appears that the Pentagon has caved to Musk's demands." Huh? When Elon initially announced that SpaceX would supply Starlink to Ukraine, he stated that SpaceX would provide the service free-of-charge for 6 months. After that 6-month period was up, it was clear that Ukraine's need for Starlink was growing significantly and, although third parties had provided some of the funding required to continue paying for the service, SpaceX was continuing to provide a significant fraction of Starlink free-of-charge and it was not economical for SpaceX to continue doing so indefinitely. Now that the Pentagon is paying some/most/all of the cost of supplying Starlink to Ukraine, the Register journalist spins this into "the Pentagon has caved to Musk's demands."

Please leave your anti-Musk bias at the door when reporting a story, and stop criticising SpaceX/Musk for their generosity.

Ashlee Vance spills the beans on the secret exciting life of space startups

Ciaran McHale

Ashlee Vance's warts-and-all biography of Elon Musk was a fascinating and informative read. I look forward to reading this new book from him.

Guy rejects top photo prize after revealing snap was actually made using AI

Ciaran McHale

Re: "Our hands are lily-white. HE'S the lying sack of shit."

I Agree they are saying "he made us look like idiots". However, I disagree that he did. It is how they chose to react to what he did that makes them look like idiots. An entirely self-inflicted wound.

Elon Musk actually sits down and talks to 'government-funded media' the BBC

Ciaran McHale

It would have been better for the folks at the BBC to say, "Sorry, but 20 minutes' notice isn't enough time to make pre-interview preparations (research, deciding upon a list of topics to discuss and so on). Give us [such-an-amount-of-time] to prepare and then we can reschedule for some time at your convenience." That might seem obvious with the benefit of hindsight, but I think it should also have been obvious in advance. I mean, I don't work in journalism, but it seems blindingly obvious to me that some about of preparation should be conducted if you want to increase the chances of an interview going well.

Ciaran McHale

Re: This is a vastly underrated long term risk for Tesla

One thing I forgot to mention in my previous comment is that most cars are not bought with cash, but rather are purchased via interest-bearing loans. As such, a rise in interest rates means it becomes more expensive for a consumer to buy a car (via an interest-bearing loan) even if the sticker price of the car remains unchanged. In the UK, base interest rates have risen significantly over the past 16 months (from 0.1% to 4.25%), as you can see in the chart in this article: https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/boeapps/database/Bank-Rate.asp The chart in this other article shows a similar trend for US base interest rates: https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/interest-rate

So, when rising interest rates means it gets more expensive for people to buy a car via an interest-bearing loan, deciding to decrease the price of the cars to compensate for the increased costs of the loans so you can maintain/increase sales seems like a reasonable thing to do. My point is that there are several possible reasons why Tesla might be lowering the prices on its cars, so your insistence that lowering prices is a "smoking gun" proving there is only one possible reason for lowering prices is incorrect. It is *possible* that Tesla is lowering prices for any (or some or all) of several reasons, and you insisting there is only one possible reason for lowering prices is irrational.

Elon has been making controversial remarks on twitter for many years; the "pedo guy" accusation springs to mind. Despite this pattern of Elon's controversial behaviour, the general trend for sales of Tesla cars has been to continue growing exponentially. You appear to be claiming that Elon expressing political opinions in recent months/years is fundamentally different to his earlier controversial tweet and is, or will, cause Tesla to lose many possible sales. You *might* be right, but the fact that sales have continued to increase exponentially means there is little evidence (yet) to support your claim. There are two points to consider about your thesis.

First, Elon's political opinions might cause upset to some Americans who have different political opinions, but most people outside of America don't care much about Elon's political opinions since most of those opinions are about US politics. This is important because Tesla's sales outside of the US are larger than its sales in the US. Put simply, if Elon's political views about US politics cause sales of Tesla cars to decrease significantly in the US, it is unlikely to have a similar impact on Tesla sales outside the US.

Second, if an American declares, "I am deeply offended by Elon's political opinions so I am not going to buy a Tesla car", I would assume this means "I will not buy a Tesla car, even if they come down in price". Yet, we have seen that Tesla decreasing the prices of its cars has maintained/increased demand for them. This suggests the possibility that "I am deeply offended by Elon's political opinions so I am not going to buy a Tesla car" people may be a small, albeit vocal, minority.

Regarding the frequency of price changes... The US government's IRA tax credits for EV purchase that took effect in January had price limits that meant several cars in Tesla's range were ineligible for the $7500 tax credit. (Some people have claimed that this was intentional in an attempt to put Tesla at a disadvantage, but whether or not that is true is irrelevant to the point I want to make.) Tesla reduced the prices of its cars and doing so made most of its cars eligible for the $7500 tax credit. So it is reasonable to assume that that price reduction was, at least partially, done out of necessity to avoid Tesla facing a competitive disadvantage. For the other price cuts since then... I don't have any insider information about what motivated them, but Elon has stated that Tesla likes to tweak its prices (sometimes by relatively small amounts) in an effort to find a sweet spot in which there is continued demand for its vehicles but the order backlog does not become excessively large, so perhaps some of the price cuts were due to that. Tesla is rare in selling its cars direct to customers; most other car manufacturers sell their cars to dealerships, which in turn sell to customers. I have heard the claim (but not conducted any google searching to verify/refute it) that dealerships rise and lower prices relatively frequently (without generating media attention), so perhaps Tesla's price changes are no more frequent than those of dealerships of other car makers; rather, they are simply more likely to be reported by the media.

Ultimately, I think the absolute certainty with which you have expressed and defended your thesis demonstrates a logical fallacy: "If I can't think of a benign reason for [such-and-such], then there is no benign reason for it." It is entirely possible that there is a benign reason for [such-and-such], but you are unaware of it because, being human, there are gaps in your knowledge.

You are right in guessing that I own Tesla shares. I do due diligence by reading biographies about Elon Musk and keeping up-to-date by reading news articles and subscribing to numerous Tesla- and EV-related YouTube channels. Then I try to resist confirmation bias as I dig through all the information and determine whether the anti-Tesla or pro-Tesla claims about a particular issue are more likely to be insightful.

Finally, you wrote, "The recession has had very little effect on automotive sales so far." The general trend since about 2016 has been for ICE car sales to decrease < 10% per year, while EV sales have been increasing about 50% per year, and the overall effect has been that overall car sales have been decreasing most years. I don't know whether the recession has been accelerating the decline in ICE car sales, but it doesn't seem to have slowed the 50% annual increase in EV sales. I have read the claim (but not done any google searching to verify/refute it) that Ford and GM have decided to abandon some of their cheaper, low-profit-margin cars and instead focus on selling their more expensive, high-profit-margin cars, and this has resulted in those companies maintaining reasonable profitability despite declining sales. I mention that not to argue "I'm right and you're wrong", but rather to provide some food for thought that you might have been unaware of.

Ciaran McHale

Re: Musk, the man who has...

"Snopes can claim what they like. We have it from Elon's own mouth." If you bother to read the Snopes webpage, you will see that it provides lots of links to articles and interviews, including the ones you cite. It is the most comprehensive collection of information on the emerald mine issue that I have seen.

Of particular relevance is that the mine was in a non-Apartheid country, so your repeated claim that it was associated with Apartheid is just plain wrong.

The emerald mine story tends to get increasingly exaggerated and inaccurate as it works its way around the internet, until it ends up containing some of the following falsehoods:

1. Elon *family* owned (or perhaps still owns) the emerald mine. No, it was his divorced father who had a 50% share of the mine, while Elon's mother lived in near poverty (due to her abusive ex-husband harassing her in ways that made it hard for her to improve her financial situation).

2. Elon Musk is an heir to the emerald mine. According to Errol Musk (Elon's father), Errol bought a 50% share of an emerald mine when Elon was about 13 and the mine closed down 5 years later. Elon cannot be an heir to a mine that no longer exists.

3. The mine was in an Apartheid country. No, it was in a non-Apartheid African country.

4. The vast wealth generated from the mine meant that Errol was able to give millions or billions of dollars to Elon, and this money enabled Elon to buy his way into companies such as PayPal and Tesla. This is incorrect. According to Errol, he made a few hundred thousand dollars from his 5-year 50% ownership of the mine. Errol did not financially support Elon, and later his siblings and his mother, when they moved from South Africa initially to Canada and then to America. With limited finances, they lived a relatively poor lifestyle until they were slowly able to bootstrap themselves financially. Elon got a partial scholarship for university and finished university with about $100,000 in student loans. Then he and his brother Kimbal set up a company called Zip2 with very little angel investor funding (some of which was from their mother). After they had an initial version of their product working, they managed to get about $200,000 in first round funding, and it was only at this stage that Errol Musk invested $28,000 in the company. The first round of funding would have succeeded without Errol's investment. After more work and more investments, the company was eventually sold for about $300 million to Compaq, and Elon used the majority of his share of the money from this sale to start X.com, which later merged with Confinity, and later still was renamed to PayPal. When PayPal was sold to eBay, Elon's share of the sale was about $180 million.Then Elon used this money to fund SpaceX and Tesla. Eventually, Errol Musk squandered whatever wealth he had, went bankrupt, and has been financially supported by his two sons for the past two decades.

5. Elon used his vast inherited wealth to buy his way into already successful companies such as PayPal and Tesla and then falsely claimed that his skills and intelligence played a vital role in making those companies succeed, when in fact his only role in the companies was as an investor. Since Elon did not inherit a massive fortune, this narrative is clearly false. Also, biographies of Elon Musk contain numerous third-party anecdotes that confirm Elon is a polymath (that is, he has in-depth knowledge of many subjects), a workaholic, and has played a very hands-on role in his companies.

I'm not claiming that Elon isn't a jerk. Merely that your claims about an apartheid emerald mine are 90%+ bullshit.

Ciaran McHale

Re: This is a vastly underrated long term risk for Tesla

"The smoking gun is the price cuts. There is absolutely no reason that a company selling every car they can make and which believes they will continue to do so to cut even $1 off the price. You only do that if you see the demand outlook for your product falling belong your production capacity in the very near future."

Consider the following two scenarios...

Scenario 1. Tesla's production rate plateau's at, say, 1.3 million cars annually. Could Tesla continue selling 1.3 million cars annually at current prices? Probably. In such a scenario, Tesla reducing the price of its cars could be seen as a sign of weakness and decreased profitability for the company.

Scenario 2. Tesla's production rate is 1.3 million annually and is expected to increase to about 1.8 or 2 million annually this year. Just because Tesla could sell 1.3 million cars at current prices this year does not mean Tesla would be able to sell 2 million cars at the same prices this year. Why? Because research indicates that the number of potential car buyers deceases exponentially as the price increases. As such, it is unsurprising that Tesla might need to reduce prices to increase sales from 1.3 million to 2 million.

Tesla's original master plan (2006) stated the intention to drive down the cost of EVs over time so that more and more people could afford to buy them, and by doing this Tesla aims to speed up the ICE-to-EV transition. Tesla's current base model car is less than 1/3 the cost of the base model Roadster (Tesla's first car released in 2008), so Tesla has made progress on the intention stated in its master plan. As such, Tesla decreasing the price of its cars is NOT a smoking gun indicating that Tesla's business is in trouble. Rather, the price decreases are compatible with Tesla's master plan and arguably is simply a matter of "business as usual" for the company.

The non-obvious issue is how Tesla might be able to maintain healthy profit margins while significantly reducing prices. My (educated) guess is that a few factors will play into this.

1. Wright's Law states that the cost to produce a particular kind of product will decrease by X% (the percentage will vary from one kind of product to another) each time the cumulative number of that kind of item has doubled. Tesla has been achieving a cumulative doubling of its cars approximately every 2 years, and people who have applied Wright's Law to EVs have conclude that the cost of manufacturing EVs drops about 17% for each cumulative doubling. This suggests that Tesla's cost of manufacturing is reducing about 8% annually (8% compounded over 2 years is about 17%). If Tesla is willing to pass on those cost savings to customers, then that will partially explain why Tesla is able to reduce prices without hurting its profit margin.

2. Elon has stated several times that COVID-related issues resulted in inflation in the cost of supplies required for making EVs, but that the inflation had abated and he was starting to see deflation in the cost of supplies. This will reduce the cost of manufacturing, and again partially explain why Tesla is able to reduce prices without hurting its profit margin.

3. In a Twitter Spaces discussion a few months ago, Elon said there were basically two strategies a car company could use during a recession. One strategy is to maintain prices, which will reduce sales and hence reduce profits (and possibly see market share decline). The other strategy is to reduce prices to maintain/increase sales, while still seeing profits decline. He suggested Tesla would adopt the second strategy if needed and he would even consider selling cars at or below cost as long as it wouldn't reduce the company's cash pile. To sell cars below cost while not hurting the company's finances would be possible if Tesla is able to simultaneously increase the profitability of another part of its business. As it happens, Tesla's megapack (grid-scale stationary battery storage) is currently growing faster than its EV business, so perhaps Tesla will use increased profits from its megapack business to compensate for losses (or decreased profits) on its cars, at least until a recession ends.

You might be familiar with the practice of a start-up company prioritizing growth at the expense of profitability for a few years in an attempt to gain as much market share as possible. Tesla aggressively reducing the price of its cars might be such a strategy. I know that GM and Ford have both stated they make a loss on their EVs (both companies hope to reach profitability over the next few years) and I am not aware of any legacy car companies claiming to make a profit on their EVs. So if Tesla's strategy is to sacrifice some profits to grab as much market share as possible in the next few years, then that seems like a reasonable strategy to me.

Ciaran McHale

Re: This is a vastly underrated long term risk for Tesla

The suggestion that Elon making controversial/political statements on Twitter is costing Tesla sales sounds plausible, yet Tesla's sales keep increasing and are at their highest level ever.

Tesla's original master plan (dating back to 2006) states the company's goal as initially creating a desirable, expensive car (the Roadster) and then figuring out ways to bring out a succession of ever-cheaper cars. So far, the company has been able to do this (today's base model Tesla car costs less than 1/3 of the base model Roadster), and although the company was in the "be prepared to make a loss while growing as quickly as possible to capture lots of market share" stage for most of its existence, it reached consistent profitability in 2019 and is profitability has been growing exponentially since then. In particular, Tesla's growth in profitability has increased much faster than its growth in sales, which indicates it has found ways to lower manufacturing costs. Tesla changing prices (sometimes up and sometimes down, but typically down in recent months) has been done partially in an attempt to balance production rate with demand, and partially to reflect changes in manufacturing costs; in particular, supply chain issues drove up costs for a few years when COVID hit, but those supply chain issues seem to be over now. As manufacturing costs come down, it is not unexpected for Tesla to pass on some of those cost savings to consumers. I don't know how much this is going to impact Tesla's profitability; we will have to wait for the Q1 2023 financial results, which I think will be announced on 19 April.

As for "the competition is coming" from legacy auto makers... Ford recently disclosed that they make something like 30% or 40% loss on each EV they sell and they have an ambitious plan to get into (small) profitability within the next few years. GM have also said they are unprofitable with their EVs, though they haven't indicated what their per-unit losses are. So it seems to me that Tesla offering price cuts on their cars (while continuing to grow sales exponentially) is likely to result in Tesla still remaining profitable (due to reaping increasingly large economies of scale) while simultaneously causing increasing pain for legacy automakers.

Hint: cognitive dissonance can make it difficult to simultaneously believe "Elon is a jerk" while also believing "Elon's companies are likely to be increasingly successful", but it worthwhile learning to cope with such opposing thoughts rather than let either one of those thoughts crowd out the other in your mind.

Ciaran McHale

Re: Musk, the man who has...

"Musk got his first fortune by selling out of paypal after Thiel (vommit) did all the real work.". Incorrect. Musk made his first fortune from Zip2. He then used the majority of money from that to start X.com, which later merged with Confinity. The result of the merger was initially called X.com and later changed its name to PayPal. Both X.com and Confinity employees contributed significantly to the success of the PayPal product. To claim that Musk played no role in the success of PayPal is incorrect, as you will discover if you read the book "The Founders: Elon Musk, Peter Thiel and the Story of PayPa" by Jimmy Soni.

Musk started SpaceX initially with $50 million of his own money, and later put in about another $50 million. Some other investors also put in money, but the budget of the start-up SpaceX was relatively small for the space industry. SpaceX became a success due to numerous factors, but a key one was that its culture was pretty much opposite of established space companies, and this resulted in SpaceX being able to attract skilled people who were frustrated at the glacial slow pace of other space companies, and develop technologies (to be used in its rockets) sometimes 10 times cheaper than other companies, sometimes 100 times cheaper and occasionally 1000 times cheaper. SpaceX passed on some of these cost savings to customers, and this resulted in SpaceX being able to get cargo/satellites into space significantly cheaper than most/all other space companies worldwide (source; Ashlee Vance's warts-and-all biography of Elon Musk) and by 2018 had achieved 65% global market share (source: Wikipedia). Trying to downplay those achievements by claiming that merely "Musk was in the right place at the right time" suffers from an extreme lack of insight.

"Tesla looks amazing when you look at the share price but if you look deeper their business is a tiny fraction of what that price would suggest". Perhaps, if you believe that Tesla is only a car manufacturer. But Tesla is actually in several businesses: (1) car manufacturing (with industry-leading profit margins), stationary battery storage at both home- and grid-scale (its grid-scale battery storage business seems to have recently started an exponential growth that will see it contribute very significantly to Tesla's profitability); (3) autonomous driving, which if it matures will likely provide dominance in robotaxis; (4) humanoid robots (too early to know if this will be a success, but if it is, then it will create a very large new market); (5) car insurance; (6) energy arbitrage (via software such as Autobidder, and also via virtual power plants) in which Tesla might earn a commission on each transaction; (7) charging stations for electric cars (Tesla's supercharger network is the largest in the world). There are synergies across some of these Tesla-owned businesses. For example: (a) data collected by the FSD hardware in cars gives Tesla the ability to develop a personalized safety rating for each driver and, when justified, offer insurance rates that are cheaper than other car insurance companies; (b) Tesla's Dojo hardware and the AI training software running on that was initially developed to train FSD (for use in cars), but is now also being used to train its humanoid robots; (c) Tesla has started to deploy its megapacks (battery storage) at some of its supercharger stations. Solar panels may be able to provide a subset of charging capability for these, but it is likely the megapacks will get most of their charge by buying cheap, off-peak power at night and then selling these for a hefty profit to cars that charge during the day. Will all of Tesla's businesses succeed? I don't know. But three of them (cars, supercharger stations, and stationary energy storage) already have, and is certainly possible that some of the other ones will mature enough to succeed.

"Demanding to pay $44B for Twitter without doing due diligence demonstrates his business ability." I would have thought that being heavily involved in several start-up companies that obtained billion dollar valuations---PayPal, SpaceX, Tesla, NeuraLink, StarLink (part of SpaceX) and The Boring Company (also part of SpaceX), hell even his first start-up company, Zip2, was sold for $300 million---would demonstrate his business ability. Instead, you have focused on his purchase of, and attempt to turn around, Twitter. He bought that company less than 6 months ago, and it is unreasonable to expect a company turn-around to be complete in such a short amount of time (source: I have read biographies/histories of many business leaders and companies). I don't know if Elon will succeed or fail with Twitter, but you are foolish to use Twitter as strong evidence that Elon Musk has poor business ability.

Ciaran McHale

Re: Musk, the man who has...

Snopes claims you are wrong about the emerald mines: https://www.snopes.com/news/2022/11/17/elon-musk-emerald-mine/

Musk says Starlink will keep providing free service to Ukraine

Ciaran McHale

I'm too lazy to do internet/twitter searches to back up my numbers, but my vague recollection is as follows. Please do internet searches to confirm/refute/clarify my claims since: (a) I think my numbers are only approximately right; and (b) I'm just a random guy on the internet so what I claim should not be taken as being reliable (not because I'm lying, but because I have seen only a subset of the information available).

1. Starlink terminals costs a few thousand dollars to make, and are normally sold to customers for $500 or $600 plus a monthly subscription fee. The expectation is that, over the course of a few years, the profit made on the monthly subscription fee will pay for the loss on selling the hardware. There is precedent for this type of business model, e.g., "get a free/cheap smart phone when you sign up to our £40/month plan for a minimum of 24 months".

2. The monthly subscription fee (based on my probably out of date recollection) is usually something like $120 for a stationary installation for a family (limited number of users); $150 for an family (limited number of users) who like to roam (e.g., fit the Starlink terminal to an RV/caravan, or transport it between main home and holiday home); a few thousand dollars/month for a commercial installation that might have hundreds/thousands of users (e.g., a cruise ship that uses Starlink to provide internet access to all its passengers).

3. Recently, twitter comments revealed that, each month, about 500 of the 25,000 Starlink terminals currently in Ukraine are destroyed due to war-inflicted damage, and need to be replaced. Since those 500 terminals won't be gradually paying off the hardware-sold-at-a-loss via monthly subscriptions, the loss of those terminals is very expensive for the manufacturer. For example, if it cost $2000+ to make each of those terminals (which is my *hazy* recollection), then 500 of them costs $1 million. With this sort of expensive attrition rate, it seems reasonable for SpaceX to request that a donation to fund the cost of a Starlink terminal might be for a substantial part of the manufacturing cost rather than the sold-at-a-substantial-loss price normally charged to consumers.

4. A recent comment on twitter indicates that individuals in Ukraine who buy a Starlink terminal (rather than getting one via a donation from a large organization) pay only $60/month subscription charge. I assume the majority of these individual purchases will be used by small teams of mobile troops, so $60 is a substantial discount on the $150 normally charged for a roaming family.

5. A recent tweet from Elon indicates that at least some Starlink terminals in Ukraine are being hooked up to a network infrastructure that can supply internet to about 10,000 or 20,000 people. I *think* the tweet stated the network infrastructure might be mobile phone cell towers to supply connectivity at town scale, but my recollection of the details is hazy. (I'm *guessing* that ethernet-based LAN might be preferred for providing a military base-scale communication network but I'm not a military guy.) I'm *assuming* that this sort of use case is at the high end of what the several thousand dollars/month subscription fee is intended to cover.

6. My *assumption* is that the Ukrainian military will use a subset of Starlink terminals for town-scale or military base-scale communication, and a subset for smaller scale mobile-army-troops activities. However, rather than configuring a specific subset of Starlink terminals for one use case and another subset of Starlink terminals for a different use case, it is logistically simpler to just configure all the Starlink terminals for the most general-purpose (and hence most expensive) monthly subscription service.

7. According to recent Elon tweets, SpaceX engineers have been investing a lot of effort into hardening Starlink infrastructure to withstand hacking/jamming attacks from Russia. This represents not only the salary cost of those employees, but also an opportunity cost, since those employees could otherwise be working on profit-making projects for SpaceX. For example, if this anti-hacking/jamming work ends up delaying the maturing of Starship by a few months, then the opportunity cost is basically the profits that could have been made by launching Starship to deploy commercial satellites multiple times during a few months.

8. There have been some apparently contradictory claims about who is bearing the cost of supplying Starlink to Ukraine. These boil down to claims like "It has cost SpaceX $XXX to provide Starlink to Ukraine" and somebody else saying, "Hang on a minute, [name of organization] has provided $YYY funding for supplying Starlink to Ukraine" and then some people claim "This means Elon is lying since it really costs SpaceX only $XXX - $YYY = $VeryLittle", while another interpretation could be that it costs $XXX + $YYY to supply Starlink to Ukraine. I have no idea which of these contradictory claims about cost are true.

The take-away point is this. If you assume costs of $600 per Starlink terminal and $60/month subscription charge, then you get a relatively low cost of supplying Starlink to Ukraine. If you assume the higher manufacturing costs per Starlink terminal and the non-subsidised typical subscription-fees-depending-on-the-use-case costs plus the effort invested in preventing hacking/jamming attempts, then you get a much higher cost of supplying Starlink to Ukraine. And that just based on what I have read. It is almost certain that my knowledge of relevant information is incomplete, so treat the above with a grain of salt. At the moment, I think it is too early to confidently claim whether Elon is a good/bad guy in this current controversy.

Musky scent? Billionaire launches fragrance: Burnt Hair

Ciaran McHale

Follow-up product

This product is being sold by The Boring Company. Knowing Elon's taste in humour, I wouldn't be surprised if his next fragrance product comes from SpaceX and is called Scent of Uranus.

Update your Tesla now before the windows put your fingers in a pinch

Ciaran McHale

Re: Beauty

If you have credible sources to back up the claim you are making, then you should cite them. Otherwise, your comment risks being viewed as baseless FUD.

RSAC branded a 'super spreader event' as attendees share COVID-19 test results

Ciaran McHale

Re: The safer each individual is, the safer the whole population becomes

I live in the UK. My wife and son were visiting friends in Taiwan when the pandemic first made the news, and she got to see first hand how Taiwan responded to the threat. Then when she returned home a few weeks' later she got to compare Taiwan's tactics to tactics used in the UK. One Taiwanese newspaper article at the time mentioned that the government had (if memory serves me correctly) about 140 specific tactics to hinder the spread of the virus. The government had these tactics planned in advance due to the country's previous experience with SARS. In contrast, the UK (and many other countries) employed just a handful of tactics, which is why the per-capita COVID infection/death rate in most countries was massively higher than in Taiwan.

It has nothing to do with the types of economy in a country (if it had, then the COVID infection rate in Taiwan would have been as high as that in China).

Ciaran McHale

Re: The safer each individual is, the safer the whole population becomes

Not at all. Taiwan and China are different countries and have used different tactics to tackle the pandemic. A google search for "Taiwan COVID economy impact" yielded the following article, which provides interesting reading: https://www.economicsobservatory.com/how-has-taiwan-navigated-the-pandemic. Of particular note that is that effective measures to keep the pandemic under control actually helped the economy.

Ciaran McHale

Re: The safer each individual is, the safer the whole population becomes

You wrote that if we take extra precautions then "then we can marginally reduce the safety risk". The following example will show just how wrong you are...

Google suggests that Taiwan is about 7 times smaller than the UK (in terms of land mass) and has 2.7 times fewer people, thus Taiwan has a population density that is about 2.6 times that of the UK. Since COVID is more easily spread in a denser population, we might expect that the per-capita COVID infection/death rate in Taiwan would be higher than that in the UK.

I suggest you look at the following web page: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/taiwan/

Look at the "Total Coronavirus Deaths in Taiwan" chart in its logarithmic form. Then compare it to the same chart for the UK at https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/

Taiwan is next door to China, so it was much closer to the original source of infection, yet Taiwan implemented very comprehensive preventative measures, and had only 12 deaths by 13 May 2021 (almost one and a half years since the start of the pandemic). In contrast, the UK had 128,262 deaths by the same date, which is almost 4000 times the per-capita rate of Taiwan. Unfortunately, since then Taiwan has had two significant outbreaks (both of which have been smaller than similar outbreaks in the UK), so its per-capita death rate is "only" 12.7 lower than that of the UK (despite having a higher population density).

SpaceX reportedly fires staffers behind open letter criticising Elon Musk

Ciaran McHale

Re: Careful what you ask for

I have no comment about him breaking financial rules. However, your comment about the defamation case is a bad example, for two reasons. First, he won the case, thus indicating that he did not break the law. Second, even if he lost the case, he would have been found in breach of civil law (thus facing a fine) rather than in breach of criminal law (thus possibly facing time in prison).

Ciaran McHale

Re: Careful what you ask for

That was an example. Another example might be picking your nose and wiping the snot on somebody's jacket. There are an almost limitless number of examples that might be given, and it is unreasonable to expect SpaceX management to exhaustively list all unacceptable behaviours.

Ciaran McHale

Re: Careful what you ask for

I bought shares at a split adjusted price of about $61, so even with Tesla's share price losing about 50% in the past six months, I am still up 10x.

As for the recent NHTSA announcement... I don't know if there is cause for concern because meaningful comparisons were not provided. For example, let's hypothetically assume the rate of accidents per 1000 miles in driver-assist/autonomous-driving vehicles is higher in a Tesla than in a competing brand of car that also has driver-assist/autonomous-driving capability. Is that bad? I don't know, because if the accident rate in a Tesla is less than the accident rate in unassisted vehicles, then Tesla cars would still be safer than unassisted vehicles.

It is unfortunate that NHTSA provided the data without providing meaningful comparisons, since it invites people to jump to (possibly incorrect) conclusions. You certainly seemed to have done so.

Don't bother responding. You have already displayed a lack of critical thinking ability and you posted anonymously, so I am dismissing you as a troll.

Ciaran McHale

Re: Careful what you ask for

I found that line of the letter to be bizarre and lacking critical thinking skills. It suggests that if SpaceX does not explicitly state that, for example, murder is unacceptable, then (according to the letter writers) SpaceX implicitly endorses murder. I have no idea how they expect SpaceX to write a fully comprehensive list of all the unpredictable things that Elon Musk might do and indicate what subset of those things might be acceptable or unacceptable.

The letter reminds me of an anecdote I heard from a friend who used to play SimCity. He built an airport well outside of a city, and later urban sprawl resulted in the city expanding to meet the airport. At this point, complaints were raised from those living near the airport that the airport was causing too much noise pollution and hence should be shut down.

Being an outspoken, larger-than-life character who takes on supposedly impossible projects (and often succeeds in them) and sometimes says controversial things has always been par for the course with Elon Musk. People who chose to work for him should have realised that about him, so it seems strange that they should now complain about his behaviour.

When I read Ashlee Vance's excellent, warts-and-all biography of Elon Musk a few years ago, I decided that: (1) I would not want to work in any of his companies; (2) (if I were female) I would not want to date him; and (3) he is an intelligent, determined workaholic whose companies have a better than average chance of being successful at supposedly-impossible goals so I should buy some shares in Tesla.

Japan makes online insults a crime that can earn a year in jail

Ciaran McHale

Re: I approve

You wrote "Maybe [some people being more inclined to make insulting remarks on the Internet is] something for the psychiatrists".

Actually, psychological experiments have been done to confirm this tendency. There is some discussion of this in the book "The Lucifer Effect How Good People Turn Evil" by Philip Zimbardo. The idea is not restricted to the Internet. Rather, people are more inclined to act in nasty ways if they feel they are anonymous. Presumably this was the inspiration for the masks of the KKK.

Tesla Autopilot accounts for 70% of driver assist crashes, says US traffic safety body

Ciaran McHale

The claim is meaningless without suitable comparisions

Some people have pointed out that "miles driven per driver-assisted crash" would be a useful comparison for different brands of driver-assist systems. However, there is another comparison that should also be made: "miles driven per crash per driver-assisted crash versus miles driven per crash for non-driver-assisted crash".

As a hypothetical example, if it turns out that Tesla's driver-assist system is more crash-prone than other brands of driver-assist systems, then that would be be embarrassing for Tesla, but if it also turns out that Tesla's driver-assist system is less crash-prone than non-driver-assist vehicles, then Tesla's system should be applauded for the increase in safety it provides (and the other brands of driver assist systems should be applauded even more).

It is frustrating that the NHTSA has released a meaningless claim. This frustrating behaviour is also to be expected, not necessarily because the NHTSA is conducting a smear campaign against Tesla, but because such meaningless claims are commonplace among humans (and the NHTSA is staffed by humans).

Why Nvidia sees a future in software and services: Recurring revenue

Ciaran McHale

Re: turn on car features, such as driver assistance, through subscription services.

There can be exceptions. For example, many food companies whose products are sold in supermarkets compete on price, which has the side effect of farmers in developing countries being paid a pittance for their bananas, coffee, cocoa beans and so on, thus ensuring that those farming communities cannot escape from poverty. FairTrade was set up to compete on ethics rather than on lowest price. Likewise, "organic" certifications in various countries help products to compete on good-for-your-health grounds rather than on low price.

In this case, if the market-leading electric car manufacturer used and got away with "pay a subscription fee for various car features" tactic, then I would agree with you. However, Toyota is far from being the market leader in electric cars, and if (like me) you assume that the world is moving towards electric cars, then Toyota employing this tactic is likely to result in people being even less likely to buy Toyota electric vehicles, and the end result is likely to be that Toyota will dramatically shrink in size or go bankrupt.

Ciaran McHale

Re: turn on car features, such as driver assistance, through subscription services.

I can imagine that policy will annoy some customers enough that they will sell the car at a convenient time and then purchase a car from another company that does not have such a policy.

Now that's wafer thin: Some manufacturers had less than five days of chip supplies, says Uncle Sam

Ciaran McHale

Re: I'm confused

That's a very informative video. Thanks for the link.

Tech Bro CEO lays off 900 people in Zoom call and makes himself the victim

Ciaran McHale

Re: Glassdoor...

Unfortunately, the UK IR35 law is an ambiguous mess. I agree that a rolling contract is often disguised employment, but I don't think that is always the case. The French law to prevent disguised employment is much more clear-cut than the UK IR35 law. In France, you can be a contractor at a single client for a maximum of 2 or 3 years (I forget which). After that, the client either has to make you a permanent employee or you have to stop working with that client for a certain time period.

Ciaran McHale

Re: staying in contracting from now on.

The voting buttons appear on the bottom left in Firefox on Linux. Perhaps they appear in a different location on a mobile browser.

Ciaran McHale

Re: Glassdoor...

Perhaps that is the typical meaning. But in my case I chose to take time off so I could focus on finishing writing the documentation for some open-source software that I wanted to release in a mature state (www.config4star.org).

Ciaran McHale

Re: Glassdoor...

I don't know if I would have made more or less money if I was a permie rather than a contractor at the company. However, I explicitly wanted to be a contractor because I was developing some software (unrelated to my client's business) in my spare time, and being a contractor meant I owned the copyright to that software by default. If I was a permie, I would have had to ask for permission to own the copyright to the software. Such permission-seeking had been a nightmare in the previous company where I had been a permie.

Ciaran McHale

Re: Glassdoor...

Your experience appears to not be wide enough for you to be making generalisations. For example, I fit into neither of those two categories. I was a permie for 15 years, and after a career sabbatical I went contracting. My first contract was on a 6-month rolling basis, and it kept getting extended for several years. At that company, I was far from being the only contractor whose contract kept getting renewed.

Amazon says Elon Musk's wicked, wicked ways mean SpaceX's Starlink 2.0 should not be allowed to fly

Ciaran McHale

From what I have read on the Internet, I get the impression that some countries are more prone to employee exploitation than others, and hence can benefit more from having unions. So when you say something to the effect of, "unions were useful 40 years ago but are not so useful now", I think you should indicate which country you are referring to.

Ciaran McHale

Re: Space is BIG and satellites aren't

I don't know much about space, rockets and satellites, so I can't comment on how big is the problem you mention. However, given the context of the article, it seems you are claiming it is bad for SpaceX in particular to be causing this problem and it would be less bad if another company caused the problem instead. I don't follow the logic of that.

Trojan Source attack: Code that says one thing to humans tells your compiler something very different, warn academics

Ciaran McHale

The example given seems to be incorrect

It seems to me there is an error in the example in the paper (and reproduced in the article) claiming to show how what appears to be just a Python comment is really a comment followed by a "return" statement.

I had a look at the paper, and it explains that the "RLI" Unicode character (right-to-left isolate) will "Force treating following text as right-to-left without affecting adjacent text" until this mode is cancelled by another command or (in the case of the example code) a newline character. This right-to-left display happens not at the level of words, but rather at the level of individual characters. Thus, the line:

''' Subtract funds from bank account then RLI''' ;return

should appear in a text editor as:

''' Subtract funds from bank account then nruter; '''

Pi calculated to '62.8 trillion digits' with a pair of 32-core AMD Epyc chips, 1TB RAM, 510TB disk space

Ciaran McHale

Re: they are now the last known digits of Pi

Innumeracy affects 8 out of every 5 people.

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